TRT+ dosages and protocol... blast and cruise?

[Tomahawk54]

Just recently started trt. Been on the fence about it for a long time. Have had low t for many years but finally decided to jump in.
Ive been weight training for most of my life and have built a good amount of muscle even with low t.
My blood pressure has always been very good (currently 110/65) starting out with good overall health and lab work. Currently working on shedding some fat and trimming down before I go back to a gaining phase. Currently 6'3" 251lbs. 23% body fat (yes, measured with caliper and navy method). 37 years old.
Being that im now on trt, I do want to maximize it the best I can without jeopardizing long term health.
So, my thoughts and questions...
Is it better to run a higher more stable dose long term say 250mg per week? Or is it better to run 200mg per week long term and then blast 300-350mg a week for 12 weeks once a year?
Have also considered adding in primo occasionally or long term depending on how my estrogen management is.
Really just looking for thoughts and opinions on maximizing TRT+ without jeopardizing long term health.
Planning on getting dialed in on a dose the first 6 to 9 months, then looking to maximize longer term.

 

[newguy2]

Probably not the popular opinion here but imo 200+ is commonly not going to put you in natural range but super physiological. This may or may not cause issues long term. For me running 200mg a week puts me at 1505 total test. Within not even a few months I was having blood thickening issues and high estrodial that would require an AI.

For some the blood markers stay fine. I would choose whatever dose you're wanting to run and get bloods after a couple months and see how you look.

 

[Patar1968]

57 here and waited until February of this year to jump on. Of course local TRT clinic put me on 200mg one shot weekly with an AI. This impacted my already high blood pressure, (treated), and I started doing my own research. Have since modified my dosage to 5 shots per week SubQ M-F, 40mg a day and dropped the AI. BP is now in normal range and staying there. Additionally, you may have some initial water gain and your BP may go up but it looks like spreading out the dosage over 2 or more shots a week helps. Also, it's easier to start low and then titrate up rather than just jumping in with both feet and then having to deal with side effects, etc.

 

[wp_375]

Contrary to what a lot of bros say, I found for me there was zero difference in how I felt between using 200 and using 120. Except my high ass HCT, E2 and higher BP on 200. No difference in libido or anything else I could tell.

Generally it's best to use the lowest effective dose for a variety of reasons

 

[MrTexas2]

I am 63 and run 180 test, 150 primo, and 90-100 deca/week. 3 iu's of GH 4 days a week (5 days was putting me out of range).

I feel very healthy on this. I would like more test but I have an enlarged heart and prostate at my age so I keep it low, I take a month or 2 twice a year where I one run only 180 mg test. The small amount of primo keeps me full and the deca keeps my joints feeling good.

I train as hard as I possible can and do fairly high intensity cardio 4 days a week. I was a a long time competitive body builder (did 17 shows won a couple but never got a pro card) when younger and have been training consistently for 50 years. I hardly ever take time off, but I only train 5 days a week and hit one body part a week.

I stay 230 lbs (five foot 9 and fairly small boned) at about 14 % b fat. I actually would like to lean out to 220 where I look my best (running Zepbound 5 mg a week). I am going to bump it up to 7.5

My diet is nearly perfect I can't remember that last time I ate junk food. I fast every day until 5, have a huge protein drink based on blueberries and strawberries. I eat my largest meal an hour after training. Before bed I have 2% milk with 30 grams of Casein powder. I eat a lot less than I used to

My protein intake (180 grams a day) is not anywhere close to were it was for most of my career (250 grams a day). But I maintain size. I was brutally strong in my early 30's but my strength does go down 1-2% every year.

My training has always been a top priority for me and hope to keep up till the day I die. I think what I am doing is safe.

 

[MrTexas2]

Just recently started trt. Been on the fence about it for a long time. Have had low t for many years but finally decided to jump in.
Ive been weight training for most of my life and have built a good amount of muscle even with low t.
My blood pressure has always been very good (currently 110/65) starting out with good overall health and lab work. Currently working on shedding some fat and trimming down before I go back to a gaining phase. Currently 6'3" 251lbs. 23% body fat (yes, measured with caliper and navy method). 37 years old.
Being that im now on trt, I do want to maximize it the best I can without jeopardizing long term health.
So, my thoughts and questions...
Is it better to run a higher more stable dose long term say 250mg per week? Or is it better to run 200mg per week long term and then blast 300-350mg a week for 12 weeks once a year?
Have also considered adding in primo occasionally or long term depending on how my estrogen management is.
Really just looking for thoughts and opinions on maximizing TRT+ without jeopardizing long term health.
Planning on getting dialed in on a dose the first 6 to 9 months, then looking to maximize longer term.

TRT/HRT will actually make you healthier, as will the bodybuilding lifestyle.

I wil be honest, I know guys who ran 400 mgs/week all the way through their 40's and early 50's and they are 100% healthy.

Technically, yeah you want to keep things at 200. But I have seen lots of guys develop the body building life style, eat fanatically clean, train 100%, hit lots of cardio and these guys are 100% healthy even though they ran considerable more than 200 a week.

Go talk to Dr Larry Lipschultz. He has hundreds of guys running well in excess of 200 who are extremely healthy.

My last (or so I thought...I made a comeback at age 56) bodybuilding contest was at 32. After that I got very much into competitive grappling (I was a high school wrestler) I ran 350-400 mgs all through my competitive grappling career with no problems.

Today at 63 I have an enlarged heart and slightly enlarged prostate, but that is because I did 2 major regional NPC shows (made a run at a pro card) and ran nearly 3 grams of gear for a year.

I don't think running 350 hurt me at all.

 

[ManK]

54y old, i live with 17,5 mg EOD sub q (61.25mg week) and 2 x 250 ui hcg week.
My lab test give me always around 800 ng.

 

[allBlack]

Probably not the popular opinion here but imo 200+ is commonly not going to put you in natural range but super physiological. This may or may not cause issues long term. For me running 200mg a week puts me at 1505 total test. Within not even a few months I was having blood thickening issues and high estrodial that would require an AI.

For some the blood markers stay fine. I would choose whatever dose you're wanting to run and get bloods after a couple months and see how you look.

Damn thats suprising, im cruising at 250mg and have been on since October last year. No blood issues just elevated cholestrol but nothing too serious

 

[Tomahawk54]

Thanks for the reply. I hope to be still getting after it when im 63.
Been just running trt so far.
Planning on trying adding in a little primo in a few months.

 

[Tomahawk54]

Thanks for your reply.
I have a couple questions for you.
1 do you think running 350-400 mg of test effected your mood in a good or bad way?
2 is it possible to be at all competitive in the classic physique divisions at lower doses of gear? Under/at 500 test with some primo and maybe some var. I know this varies a lot by individual. Currently my pre trt build is 6'2" 246 lbs. 20% body fat. So, roughly 200# lean mass. Ive got a good base of muscle to start with and never used gear. The limit for my height in classic is 230 or 237 lbs. So id need to put on 15-20 lbs muscle to be in the upper end of muscle mass. Is this doable in the next 2 years on lower levels of gear and higher end trt doses?

 

[Tomahawk54]

Thanks for your reply.
I have a couple questions for you.
1 do you think running 350-400 mg of test effected your mood in a good or bad way?
2 is it possible to be at all competitive in the classic physique divisions at lower doses of gear? Under/at 500 test with some primo and maybe some var. I know this varies a lot by individual. Currently my pre trt build is 6'2" 246 lbs. 20% body fat. So, roughly 200# lean mass. Ive got a good base of muscle to start with and never used gear. The limit for my height in classic is 230 or 237 lbs. So id need to put on 15-20 lbs muscle to be in the upper end of muscle mass. Is this doable in the next 2 years on lower levels of gear and higher end trt doses?

 

[IronLinus]

Thanks for your reply.
I have a couple questions for you.
1 do you think running 350-400 mg of test effected your mood in a good or bad way?
2 is it possible to be at all competitive in the classic physique divisions at lower doses of gear? Under/at 500 test with some primo and maybe some var. I know this varies a lot by individual. Currently my pre trt build is 6'2" 246 lbs. 20% body fat. So, roughly 200# lean mass. Ive got a good base of muscle to start with and never used gear. The limit for my height in classic is 230 or 237 lbs. So id need to put on 15-20 lbs muscle to be in the upper end of muscle mass. Is this doable in the next 2 years on lower levels of gear and higher end trt doses?

To your 1. Question: it Depends on the Individual, BUT most people feel actually quite on that good on that high level of test, some people might feel a little bit more irrtable or get high E2 signs because they aromatize very heavily. Try out 350mg/wk and see how you feel, you can always titrate up slowly if you are not having huge side effects like hair loss or intensive acne or huge milky man boobs.

To your 2. Question: Well i don’t know, because i dont know how your physique looks, get your training and diet and sleep perfectly dialed in. See how you respond to gear. This is not meant to be offensive but at 37 you might be up for a challenge as compared to someone who might be 22 and wants to compete.

 

[MrTexas2]

Thanks for your reply.
I have a couple questions for you.
1 do you think running 350-400 mg of test effected your mood in a good or bad way?
2 is it possible to be at all competitive in the classic physique divisions at lower doses of gear? Under/at 500 test with some primo and maybe some var. I know this varies a lot by individual. Currently my pre trt build is 6'2" 246 lbs. 20% body fat. So, roughly 200# lean mass. Ive got a good base of muscle to start with and never used gear. The limit for my height in classic is 230 or 237 lbs. So id need to put on 15-20 lbs muscle to be in the upper end of muscle mass. Is this doable in the next 2 years on lower levels of gear and higher end trt doses?

350-400 mgs of test was the absolute best. I enjoyed that more than any other dosage....life was good, food tasted better, no sides, I could work and train like an animal, sex drive was stupid. I ran 400 test, 300 EQ and maybe a little T ball all through my competitive grappling career (mid to late 30"s) and absolutely loved it. If I was not training for a tournament (usually NAGA) I just ran the test alone. I had a couple of very amateur MMA fights and boxing burners and I would take a little halotestin, it made me mean as a snake. This schedule me to recover from 3-4 days of BJJ and 3-4 days of lifting. I transitioned to boxing/M Thai and kept the same schedule. I hardly took any time off and this steroid program not hurt me one bit....but I was always doing very high intensity cardio.

The recovery from all that training was key, I was looking for strength maintenance. I was not looking to get bigger, I fought at 215.

If I were recomending a cycle for the average gym rat it would be similar, 400 test and 300 of tren (if he wanted max physique results) and I would also add anavar the first 5-6 weeks and then switch to winstrol (assuming your lab works good) the last 3-4 weeks or so. Ya gotta be careful with your lipids on Winstrol but you physique will change dramatically in a month.

This is all you need if your goal is to be the best looking guys in the gym. If you wanted to be safer, switch the tren for EQ and run things a little longer. the Winstrol is still going to harden you up. You could also switch th eternal for Primo, but you need to ru the primo a little higher, 400 mgs/ week. I love Primo because as an old man if it is very safe.

DEca can also be a good addition, but you need to run your test 2 to one to prevent deca dick (which can of Course be fixed with cabergolin).

That is the dosage I put all my my fighters I would prep on. One idiot stopped listening to me, did tons and gassed out when he fought in Bellator. More is not always better.

That is the key I would pass only to young guys looking to transform their bodies: It is ALWATS the training and Diet. Always. Gear month make up for shit if your dining ad deiet are not 100% on point. Maximize your potential. Train your ass off for 5, preferably at least 7 years before touching anything. Then of course test only.

Once you start jumping into mixing compounds, less is more. Running 400 (maybe 500) mgs of test is all you need. 300-350 mgs of tren is all you need. If you want a little more, then maybe 50 mgs of anavar a day (thats plenty). A little Winstrol will further change things.

I got a client right now. Obsessed with being 250 (started at about 218) Trains his ass off. Put him on 400 test, 200 deca and he looked great, shot up 12 lbs quick. Guy train very hard and consistently. He went crazy on the test and deca and looked like shit, his bloods were all fucked up and he ws impotent.

Dropped him back down to 300 test, 200 masteron and he looks great (235 lbs) and is wearing out is gf's pussy.

 

[MrTexas2]

To your 1. Question: it Depends on the Individual, BUT most people feel actually quite on that good on that high level of test, some people might feel a little bit more irrtable or get high E2 signs because they aromatize very heavily. Try out 350mg/wk and see how you feel, you can always titrate up slowly if you are not having huge side effects like hair loss or intensive acne or huge milky man boobs.

To your 2. Question: Well i don’t know, because i dont know how your physique looks, get your training and diet and sleep perfectly dialed in. See how you respond to gear. This is not meant to be offensive but at 37 you might be up for a challenge as compared to someone who might be 22 and wants to compete.

Thanks for your reply.
I have a couple questions for you.
1 do you think running 350-400 mg of test effected your mood in a good or bad way?
2 is it possible to be at all competitive in the classic physique divisions at lower doses of gear? Under/at 500 test with some primo and maybe some var. I know this varies a lot by individual. Currently my pre trt build is 6'2" 246 lbs. 20% body fat. So, roughly 200# lean mass. Ive got a good base of muscle to start with and never used gear. The limit for my height in classic is 230 or 237 lbs. So id need to put on 15-20 lbs muscle to be in the upper end of muscle mass. Is this doable in the next 2 years on lower levels of gear and higher end trt doses?

Is this your first show? It would be easier I I looked at you. Classic has gotten tougher. I would recommend 500 test, 400 tren, and 400 Masteron. 5 iu's of GH a night. Run 60 mgs of anavar a day for 5-6 weeks. Assuming your labs are good, then drop the var and switch to 60 mgs of of Winstrol your last 4 weeks.

The above is for your 10 weeks pre show. Prior to that I would ru test and deca to get your joints 100% ready for pre contest training

But again it is hard to say w/ out looking at you. The cycle is generic and designed to be effective while at the same time safe.

Also, diuretics are key. I don't give out diuretic programs over the Internet.

 

[Tomahawk54]

350-400 mgs of test was the absolute best. I enjoyed that more than any other dosage....life was good, food tasted better, no sides, I could work and train like an animal, sex drive was stupid. I ran 400 test, 300 EQ and maybe a little T ball all through my competitive grappling career (mid to late 30"s) and absolutely loved it. If I was not training for a tournament (usually NAGA) I just ran the test alone. I had a couple of very amateur MMA fights and boxing burners and I would take a little halotestin, it made me mean as a snake. This schedule me to recover from 3-4 days of BJJ and 3-4 days of lifting. I transitioned to boxing/M Thai and kept the same schedule. I hardly took any time off and this steroid program not hurt me one bit....but I was always doing very high intensity cardio.

The recovery from all that training was key, I was looking for strength maintenance. I was not looking to get bigger, I fought at 215.

If I were recomending a cycle for the average gym rat it would be similar, 400 test and 300 of tren (if he wanted max physique results) and I would also add anavar the first 5-6 weeks and then switch to winstrol (assuming your lab works good) the last 3-4 weeks or so. Ya gotta be careful with your lipids on Winstrol but you physique will change dramatically in a month.

This is all you need if your goal is to be the best looking guys in the gym. If you wanted to be safer, switch the tren for EQ and run things a little longer. the Winstrol is still going to harden you up. You could also switch th eternal for Primo, but you need to ru the primo a little higher, 400 mgs/ week. I love Primo because as an old man if it is very safe.

DEca can also be a good addition, but you need to run your test 2 to one to prevent deca dick (which can of Course be fixed with cabergolin).

That is the dosage I put all my my fighters I would prep on. One idiot stopped listening to me, did tons and gassed out when he fought in Bellator. More is not always better.

That is the key I would pass only to young guys looking to transform their bodies: It is ALWATS the training and Diet. Always. Gear month make up for shit if your dining ad deiet are not 100% on point. Maximize your potential. Train your ass off for 5, preferably at least 7 years before touching anything. Then of course test only.

Once you start jumping into mixing compounds, less is more. Running 400 (maybe 500) mgs of test is all you need. 300-350 mgs of tren is all you need. If you want a little more, then maybe 50 mgs of anavar a day (thats plenty). A little Winstrol will further change things.

I got a client right now. Obsessed with being 250 (started at about 218) Trains his ass off. Put him on 400 test, 200 deca and he looked great, shot up 12 lbs quick. Guy train very hard and consistently. He went crazy on the test and deca and looked like shit, his bloods were all fucked up and he ws impotent.

Dropped him back down to 300 test, 200 masteron and he looks great (235 lbs) and is wearing out is gf's pussy.

Trying to stay away from tren lol. However it seems like running test, primo and anavar (at lower doses) seems pretty safe. Ive got a good base to start with, especially considering the muscle mass i have built this far was with low T and no aas use so far. Interested to see what kind of results I can get. I dont plan on making a run for a pro card or anything like that but I do think it would be fun to compete a couple of times. I know it is insanely hard work and takes a lot of discipline though. A good friend of mine is making a run for a pro card right now.
Honestly I just really enjoy training and have recently started to really enjoy the dialing in and tracking macros part of it a lot more.
My main goal is to be able to keep up at this for the long haul.

 

[Tomahawk54]

To your 1. Question: it Depends on the Individual, BUT most people feel actually quite on that good on that high level of test, some people might feel a little bit more irrtable or get high E2 signs because they aromatize very heavily. Try out 350mg/wk and see how you feel, you can always titrate up slowly if you are not having huge side effects like hair loss or intensive acne or huge milky man boobs.

To your 2. Question: Well i don’t know, because i dont know how your physique looks, get your training and diet and sleep perfectly dialed in. See how you respond to gear. This is not meant to be offensive but at 37 you might be up for a challenge as compared to someone who might be 22 and wants to compete.

Thankfully, I dont have to worry about hair loss, been shaving my head since I was 25. As long as I dont get crazy acne or gyno im g2g. I do have some mast prop, primo and anastrozole on hand just in case i need to use any of those for e2 control. Obviously those three compounds have different use cases and strategies.
I feel like I have pretty decent genetics for building muscle and a solid base of muscle to start with, especially since the muscle I have built so far was with low t and no aas use so far.
Been lifting off and on for a long time but very consistent for the last 7 years.
I know I will be at somewhat of a disadvantage being 37 and not 23. I dont neccesarily want to compete just because I think I can win, maybe I can and maybe I can't. It more about just wanting to do it for the experience and because I enjoy training and even enjoy tracking my food/macros etc. If I do well, great! If I dont do great, id still be ok with knowing I pushed to be the best that I can be.

 

[MrTexas2]

Trying to stay away from tren lol. However it seems like running test, primo and anavar (at lower doses) seems pretty safe. Ive got a good base to start with, especially considering the muscle mass i have built this far was with low T and no aas use so far. Interested to see what kind of results I can get. I dont plan on making a run for a pro card or anything like that but I do think it would be fun to compete a couple of times. I know it is insanely hard work and takes a lot of discipline though. A good friend of mine is making a run for a pro card right now.
Honestly I just really enjoy training and have recently started to really enjoy the dialing in and tracking macros part of it a lot more.
My main goal is to be able to keep up at this for the long haul.

As someone who has competed 17 times my advice is....not to compete, LOL.

Schedule a personal photo shoot to give you a target to shoot for. Test, primo, anavar all are excellent drugs that are very safe.

 

[Tomahawk54]

As someone who has competed 17 times my advice is....not to compete, LOL.

Schedule a personal photo shoot to give you a target to shoot for. Test, primo, anavar all are excellent drugs that are very safe.

Probably good advice. Honestly, if I were going to try to compete i would probably be 2 years out just based on what I would want to accomplish. I watched one of the Texas NPC shows this last weekend and I definitely could not have placed but I think with a couple more years of work I could make a decent show.
Thanks for all the advice. I really appreciate it.

 

[MrTexas2]

Probably good advice. Honestly, if I were going to try to compete i would probably be 2 years out just based on what I would want to accomplish. I watched one of the Texas NPC shows this last weekend and I definitely could not have placed but I think with a couple more years of work I could make a decent show.
Thanks for all the advice. I really appreciate it.

I was born and raised in California (won one big show here many years ago) and California used to be, but is not longer the toughest state now.

Texas is the toughest. Lots of pros come out of Texas now. And for some reason, people come from all over. Guy who beat me at the Mr Texas was from Michigan.

But honestly, I don't recommend competing. My son was a football player and all state wrestler. Wrestling is tough, tough, tough, but body building is just plain dangerous.

 

[Slowww]

Thanks for your reply.
I have a couple questions for you.
1 do you think running 350-400 mg of test effected your mood in a good or bad way?
2 is it possible to be at all competitive in the classic physique divisions at lower doses of gear? Under/at 500 test with some primo and maybe some var. I know this varies a lot by individual. Currently my pre trt build is 6'2" 246 lbs. 20% body fat. So, roughly 200# lean mass. Ive got a good base of muscle to start with and never used gear. The limit for my height in classic is 230 or 237 lbs. So id need to put on 15-20 lbs muscle to be in the upper end of muscle mass. Is this doable in the next 2 years on lower levels of gear and higher end trt doses?

1. No
2. 15-20lbs of muscle on trt or 500 test. very funny