TRT for 2 weeks now + lab results (questions)

[nando]

Hello all:
I have been visiting these boards for awhile, but this is my first post.
My labs came back and my Doc put me on TRT.

I have a few questions on the labs and the prescription.

First the labs:
Do i need to worry about these values at all?
Abnormal values:
Neutrophils: 39L :: range 40 - 74%
Lymphs: 51H :: range 14 - 46%

--
Lipid
Cholestrol, Total 173 range 100 - 199 mg / dl
Triglycerides 102 range 0 - 149
HDL 47 range 40 - 59
VLDL 20 range 5 - 40
LDL 106H range 0-99

How bad is this LDL?

--
Testosterone, Free and Total
Testosterone, Serum 351 range 241 - 827 ng/dl
Free Testosterone (Direct) 12.2 range 8.7 - 25.1 pg/ml

How bad is my Test?

--
Prescription:
Weekly dose of 50 mg Testosterone Propionate / 200 mg Testosterone Enanthate blend

I got 2nd dose this week

So far i am not feeling any different, but i am sure it is too early to tell.

Any feedback or advice from the experts on this board would me much appreciated.
I have more information availiable if there and any questions or clarification needed.

Thanks in advance...

Nando

 

[cpeil2]

Are these labs from before you started?

Your weekly dose of T seems awfully high. 100 mgs would be more like it.

 

[nando]

Yes all labs are from before starting
approx 3-4weeks ago

i am mid 2nd week of treatment.
any other feedback?

 

[SWALE]

You are not on "TRT". You are taking steroids. 250mg per week will take most men to more than twice the top of normal range.

And is is not like your levels were actually below range to start with. Get with a doctor who knows what they are doing, or your health will surely be damaged.

test prop is a lousy choice for a weekly inhjection. This makes the drop off at the end of the week even worse.

 

[nando]

thanks for the response
steroids?
isn't Testosterone a steroid?
what should i tell my doctor?
he said the Weekly dose of 50 mg Testosterone Propionate / 200 mg Testosterone Enanthate blend is what is best for my condition.

And the 50 propionate is to raise lvls every week, the 200 enanthate to keep lvls up till next dose?????????????

Over the last 2 years i have changed alot
I have suffered from weak bones (4 broken bones over the last 2 years)
Lack of Drive/Desire not just sexual
Tired most of the time

after going over what i am going through with my doctor we did the blood work

initial bloodwork came back and more tests were ordered

after the bloodwork came back he decided that TRT would help me with what i was facing

i have now been on TRT for about 2 1/2 weeks

because i have to take shots now, i thought it right to start reasearching what i am putting into my body, and that is how i came across this site

do i need to worry about my Neutrophils:Lymphs: Levels?
what should i tell my doctor?

thanks again for the advice and knowledge

 

[stat1951]

Yes, from your symptoms it could be very well that you need some TRT. But none of your levels are sub par or completely BELOW normal.

Before starting TRT:

Total Testosterone 351 with a range 241 - 827 ng/dl (you're over 100 points above bottom end)
Free Testosterone 12.2 with a range 8.7 - 25.1 pg/ml (dude, you're right in the middle).

How bad is your Test?

Heck, your Test isn't "bad" at all. Not necessarily "good", but not what most doctors would even consider - at face value - hypogonadal.

SWALE isn't simply the moderator od this board, he is a highly respected TRT doctor. How many TRT patients (still living anyway) has your doctor treated?

Yes, you may need some TRT to "tweak" your levels, but using a smaller doage of something like 5 grams of AndroGel or Testim (which would deliver 5 mg of testosterone daily) might very well be the ticket.... the 250mg of IM shots that you're doing weekly now, well, probably about 175mg of that is actually testosterone (the remaining being ester carriers, etc.) and spread out over the week means that you're getting like 25mgs of testosterone daily.

Like SWALE said, that's based on anabolic steroid levels and not "Hormone Replacement Level" (and no, testosterone is NOT a steroid).

Also broken bones can be from a number of reasons.

Did the doctor check your cortisol levels? Hypercortisolism can result in loss of bone material and result in easily broken bones. Ask for a 24-hour Urinary Free Cortisol test.

Then check the posting at top of the HRT page and find where it shows SWALE's "Current Recipe for TRT Success" or something like that.

If doing IM shots, you should be at no higher than 100 mg IM shots (Test Cyp) per week OR on an even lower dose transdermal gel.....

 

[cpeil2]

Testosterone is a steroid hormone. Your neutrophil level is essentially normal. Lymphocyte elevation is very slight. Could be the result of a viral infection, or some non-specific low-level inflammation.

 

[Desmo996]

(and no, testosterone is NOT a steroid)

Ahh...Yes it is. What SWALE was trying to say was at his current dosage he is considered abusing the steroid as it is most definitely pushing all of his sex hormones out of their normal ranges.

 

[nando]

OK

Thank you all for the responses,

-i thought steroid users took in like 500 mg testosterone and stacked it with other compounds weekly, in reading from other boards

So lemme make sure i understand all of this:

-my doctor has prescribed a dosage too high which could hurt my health and may not help my problems

-my Neutrophils:Lymphs: Levels are fine -- WHEW

-the Propionate / Enanthate Blend is not the best way to go anyways (why would he prescribe this to me??????????????)

-It sucks to learn my doctor might not know what he is doing!

-out of all the testing i have done i dont see any results for a Urinary Free Cortisol test. (i need to ask to have that test done)

Now is the next quesion...
How do I approach my doctor on this?
Something like, "I was reading these message boards and the amount of testosterone prescribed is way too high and could hurt my health, and they recommend Testosterone Cypionate, not the 50 mg Testosterone Propionate / 200 mg Testosterone Enanthate Blend" ???

I am trying to study on this topic a little bit daily and arm myself with information

*** I just want to feel better without hurting my health ***
Again thanks for you help.

 

[earthdog]

Enanthate is fine; its behavior is very close to cyp and should be considered interchangeble. It's just the dosage that's too high. If you tell your doctor about the message boards, he will most likely scoff. You should instead print and show him the http://www.aace.com/clin/guidelines/hypogonadism.pdf While not as cutting-edge as Swale's protocol, it does state the dosage as 50 to 100mg of cyp or eth every 7-10 days. If he's open to it, you could also print and show him Swale's "TRT: A Recipe for success."

 

[greatgro]

Enanthate is fine; its behavior is very close to cyp and should be considered interchangeble.

But remember, he's on a proprionate/enanthate blend. Cyp is still somewhat better than enanthate but add the prop and the blend really stinks. Instead of a 7 day half-life with Cyp, you've gone to maybe a 3 day at best with the blend. That and the high dosage is asking for trouble (and lack of results).

 

[mranak]

It is _possible_ (but very unlikely) that you _do_ need 250mg of testosterone enanthate/week. Only a bloodtest can tell for sure. Has your doctor run a total testosterone and free testosterone test on you since you started this regimen? If not, then request it.

As for the testosterone propionate, print out page two of this, which you can use for supporting documentation. The charts show that, with testosterone enanthate, serum testosterone peaks very quickly. Or just tell your physician that you would like to try your TRT without the propionate; I can't see him insisting on it.

Let us know about the testosterone test. If have have had one done, then get a copy of the test.

What area are you in, anyway?

 

[mxim]

bottom line-250mgs is too high. tell him you want to try 100mgs of only enanthate per week. wait 3-4 weeks and then get your blood drawn again. i say wait 3-4 weeks because you need time for your levels to stabilize after using such a high dose(250mgs).
mxim

 

[nando]

ok trying to set up an appt
thax for the feedback
i think i now know how to approach this