TRT or so I thought, results.....

[woolymaggot]

Although I've been one of those lucky few who can take deca on it's own without suffering libido issues, I decided it wasn't healthy having zero test in me.

I started taking 50mg test cyp (Pharmacom Darius) per week in 2 subq shots. I've been taking it for 8 weeks and took the test 48hrs after my last shot.

I'm also taking 600mg deca and just to complicate matters, 300mg Pharmacom Darius (IM) and 300mg Pharmasource (subq).

I have attached an exert of my results. Everything except sodium, CK and ferritin were in range, which were slightly out or easily explained.

However my test levels are far too high for a TRT 50mg weekly dose.

The blood test results were pretty consistent so I can only assume they are not skewed. I will however read up on testosterone lab tests to check whether this could be a possibility but I'd expect of the 30+ results, others would be skewed if there was a problem there.

I just can't see the test cyp being overdosed to cause that kind of result.

Both the deca came out on lab max as a match but I confess whilst I think this test is in the right direction to conveniently help users, my experience in interpreting results and deviations from expected colour indications, leaves me accepting lab analysis is clearly a better but pricey and logistically challenging option for me.

The process of elimination is obviously the way I have to go by dropping 1 of the deca's and repeat the blood test in a couple of months...damn these long esters.

I've found both these sources very reliable so I'm not jumping the gun at this point. However this blood level of testosterone is unacceptable to me as I want normal range.

Deca is very good to me, joint wise and to combat my inflammation, it's pretty much the only thing that has kept me training without too much pain so whilst it ain't great long term, it's a gamble I am prepared to take.

I'm taking cialis, BCP 157 and TB4 currently but I'm naturally ruling them out.

For those that have read the above it's a pretty long winded bit of background so thanks for reading and if you have any feedback that may explain, I'm all ears.

I will post my next results and take it from there.

Cheers

Wooly M

 

[grey]

Bizzare to see it that high. Overstrength gear would be a huge understatement.

Far more likely that one of your other injectables is mostly just Test as you theorized.

 

[Evom1]

I would drop the pcom deca for a few weeks and re test

 

[woolymaggot]

I would drop the pcom deca for a few weeks and re test

Thanks. I'm running low on Pharmasource and have more Pharmacom so it is likely I'll drop the Pharmasource. I do however have primus ray, southern ghost and prostasia(that will be binned most likely though) so I have options. My primary objective is to get my test levels down (you don't often hear that!) then identify the cause to prevent future reoccurrence.

Whether I drop one or both, either way I'll retest and down the line, reintroduce one and retest again so I know.

 

[Savagesteve]

Thanks. I'm running low on Pharmasource and have more Pharmacom so it is likely I'll drop the Pharmasource. I do however have primus ray, southern ghost and prostasia(that will be binned most likely though) so I have options. My primary objective is to get my test levels down (you don't often hear that!) then identify the cause to prevent future reoccurrence.

Whether I drop one or both, either way I'll retest and down the line, reintroduce one and retest again so I know.

Like was stated I may be another compound giving those results. Drop everything but the test and get bloods again to confirm this.

 

[Icejosh]

Although I've been one of those lucky few who can take deca on it's own without suffering libido issues, I decided it wasn't healthy having zero test in me.

I started taking 50mg test cyp (Pharmacom Darius) per week in 2 subq shots. I've been taking it for 8 weeks and took the test 48hrs after my last shot.

I'm also taking 600mg deca and just to complicate matters, 300mg Pharmacom Darius (IM) and 300mg Pharmasource (subq).

I have attached an exert of my results. Everything except sodium, CK and ferritin were in range, which were slightly out or easily explained.

However my test levels are far too high for a TRT 50mg weekly dose.

The blood test results were pretty consistent so I can only assume they are not skewed. I will however read up on testosterone lab tests to check whether this could be a possibility but I'd expect of the 30+ results, others would be skewed if there was a problem there.

I just can't see the test cyp being overdosed to cause that kind of result.

Both the deca came out on lab max as a match but I confess whilst I think this test is in the right direction to conveniently help users, my experience in interpreting results and deviations from expected colour indications, leaves me accepting lab analysis is clearly a better but pricey and logistically challenging option for me.

The process of elimination is obviously the way I have to go by dropping 1 of the deca's and repeat the blood test in a couple of months...damn these long esters.

I've found both these sources very reliable so I'm not jumping the gun at this point. However this blood level of testosterone is unacceptable to me as I want normal range.

Deca is very good to me, joint wise and to combat my inflammation, it's pretty much the only thing that has kept me training without too much pain so whilst it ain't great long term, it's a gamble I am prepared to take.

I'm taking cialis, BCP 157 and TB4 currently but I'm naturally ruling them out.

For those that have read the above it's a pretty long winded bit of background so thanks for reading and if you have any feedback that may explain, I'm all ears.

I will post my next results and take it from there.

Cheers

Wooly M

it's normally always the other way, under dosed and a suprise when low numbers come in.
Seems strange that your E2 numbers don't seem to reflect the huge increase in Test, unless your taking an AI.
I personally would run 1 more set of bloods on test/ E2/ SHBG/ prolactin, if you can just run these.
Then if comes back high again remove 1 substance I'd say as you suggest ten.
If not ten you have the most potent test c.

 

[woolymaggot]

it's normally always the other way, under dosed and a suprise when low numbers come in.
Seems strange that your E2 numbers don't seem to reflect the huge increase in Test, unless your taking an AI.
I personally would run 1 more set of bloods on test/ E2/ SHBG/ prolactin, if you can just run these.
Then if comes back high again remove 1 substance I'd say as you suggest ten.
If not ten you have the most potent test c.

My oestradiol was 85.3 which according to the lab was not even at the mid point. Alas I don't have any base levels to hand and besides, my history of use and lack of bloods way back when means I've no idea on what's normal oestradiol for me.
Although I keep a stock of arimidex and some nolv, I've never suffered any sides and had to use them. In fact, never touched them, ever. My body just must not aromatize the test to a notable scale. What bloods I have done have never flagged high E2.

Progesterone, SHBG would be an interesting check, my last lot of bloods didn't have them.

I've decided to drop everything other than the Pharmacom DECA which I'll keep at 300mg per week for a few weeks to drop my levels then reintroduce test cyp 50mg per week to aim to get lower to mid normal range. I'll then test and I'll know if my DECA is good.
Whilst normal test levels are my goal, I need the DECA to be good for my old joints sake and I have a few vials so it would be handy of they're good.

Thanks for the reply bud

 

[J DUGIN]

I have read that Deca can skew testosterone readings and I had this happen on a recent lab using NPP.
There are arguments from both sides saying it does or doesn't but I feel it definitely does.
My recent blood work came back higher test than normal without me changing a thing other than adding NPP. Given I could have something other than NPP as I have not tested it but the joint relief and serious increase in hunger is telling me it's NPP.
Could be what is happening with you OP.

 

[Dr JIM]

assuming steady state levels were reached before the blood was drawn a 50mg dose should yield a PEAK value of roughly
500ng/dl!

Assuming all the above is correct
4000 ng/dl level means your DECA is TESTOSTERONE!

This assertion is further supported by the fact you were pinning Nanadtone alone yet failed to develop hypoandrogenemic adverse effects.

Confirmation can be obtained by drawing a TT level when running NANDROLONE alone.

I hate to tell you guys this but substituting TT for almost any parenteral AAS is a trite occurrence by UGL, IME.

IMO it's incumbent upon you as a consumer to inform Darius, your resaler of these results.

Finally it's utter nonsense to believe
a qualified medical lab would mischaracterize such high levels of
Nandrolone as TESTOSTERONE or vice versa !

Jim

 

[mands]

Some test will show false readings from nandrolone showing unheard of test levels. Schedule the correct testing or drop the Deca and re-test in a month or so.

Or your Deca is Test. But, this is highly doubtful.

ECLIA method can and will give false reading. LC/MS/MS gives accurate readings.

mands

 

[Dr JIM]

I have read that Deca can skew testosterone readings and I had this happen on a recent lab using NPP.
There are arguments from both sides saying it does or doesn't but I feel it definitely does.

These false readings occur at LOW levels (most range bt 1-5%) and in no way approximate molecular misidentification or mischaracterization of this magnitude.

In addition false positives almost exclusively occur with ELISA testing and are unheard of with LC/MS assays primarily bc the MW differences between Nandrolone and Testosterone approximate TEN PERCENT!

Consequently, in this instance an UGL that suggests "your testing missed it" is absolutely FOS!

 

[janoshik]

So much talk and so little data.

1. ELISA having significant interference from nandrolone is not really something I'd worry about.

Cross-reactivity of steroid hormone immunoassays: clinical significance and two-dimensional molecular similarity prediction

2. LC/MS/MS is 100%.

3. Pharmacom test e I've tested recently was massively overdosed.

Make out of it what you will.

 

[mands]

So much talk and so little data.

1. ELISA having significant interference from nandrolone is not really something I'd worry about.

Cross-reactivity of steroid hormone immunoassays: clinical significance and two-dimensional molecular similarity prediction

2. LC/MS/MS is 100%.

3. Pharmacom test e I've tested recently was massively overdosed.

Make out of it what you will.

So much wrong data and reading

1. Roche ECLIA is what I was referring.

2. Agree

3. How much? And I don't need to see the raw data. lol

mands

 

[janoshik]

375 instead of 300 test. What a funny guy you are.

 

[janoshik]

So much wrong data and reading
1. Roche ECLIA is what I was referring.

Yes, a little bit of reading helps everybody, Mr. Mands. Indeed

Roche ECLIA is exactly what I am talking about.


"The Roche Elecsys ...Testosterone II assay..."
Cross-reactivity of steroid hormone immunoassays: clinical significance and two-dimensional molecular similarity prediction

"Elecsys® Testosterone II Electrochemiluminescence immunoassay (ECLIA)"
http://www.roche-diagnostics.ch/content/dam/corporate/roche-dia_ch/documents/broschueren/professional_diagnostics/serumarbeitsplatz/immunologie/fertilitaet-hormone/EN_Testosteron II_FactSheet.pdf




Which and whose wrong data were you exactly referring to, please, Mr. @mands ?

 

[mands]

375 instead of 300 test. What a funny guy you are.

Haha I can be!

https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/cdrh_docs/reviews/k093421.pdf

mands

 

[mands]

Yes, a little bit of reading helps everybody, Mr. Mands. Indeed

Roche ECLIA is exactly what I am talking about.


"The Roche Elecsys ...Testosterone II assay..."
Cross-reactivity of steroid hormone immunoassays: clinical significance and two-dimensional molecular similarity prediction

"Elecsys® Testosterone II Electrochemiluminescence immunoassay (ECLIA)"
http://www.roche-diagnostics.ch/content/dam/corporate/roche-dia_ch/documents/broschueren/professional_diagnostics/serumarbeitsplatz/immunologie/fertilitaet-hormone/EN_Testosteron II_FactSheet.pdf




Which and whose wrong data were you exactly referring to, please, Mr. @mands ?

Well you did write down ElISA in your original post. So I had to say something.

mands

 

[janoshik]

Well you did write down ElISA in your original post. So I had to say something.

mands

The difference in them is not the specificity, but the method of response detection, so in that way (nandrolone interference) they are interchangeable.

But my bad, in the article its eclia mentioned so I misreferred to it - nothing a quick glance in the article and some reading wouldn't fix.

 

[janoshik]

Haha I can be!

https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/cdrh_docs/reviews/k093421.pdf

mands

So we have one article, you've posted saying "Nandrolone was tested and was considered as interference substance"

And we got one article which says that nandrolone has 2.1% crossreactivity and low likelihood of clinically significant cross-reactivity.


My conclusion from this that both statements are not disproving each other - nandrolone is interfering, but it is of no significance.

My statement was literally that the ROCHE testosterone blood test having significant interference from nandrolone is not really something I'd worry about.

 

[mands]

375 instead of 300 test. What a funny guy you are.

For the sake of argument let's say his test is overdosed by 75mg. This means he's running 62.5mg instead of 50mg per shot.

There is no way that his test levels are coming back at the number his lab test are showing unless the results are skewed because of nandrolone use or Pharmacom deca is in fact testosterone.

My bet is the testing method.

Here is another.

Testosterone, Total, Plasma

mands