TRT or so I thought, results.....

[janoshik]

For the sake of argument let's say his test is overdosed by 75mg. This means he's running 62.5mg instead of 50mg per shot.

There is no way that his test levels are coming back at the number his lab test are showing unless the results are skewed because of nandrolone use or Pharmacom deca is in fact testosterone.

My bet is the testing method.

mands

Can't disagree with an opinion and that's what I would logically think so as well.

However, my bet would be adulteration with testosterone.

The possibilities are infinite, though.

If the OP can redo the test to disprove that some random other factor was at play then the next good step afterwards would be either getting a LC/MS/MS test or getting his gear either labmaxed (can labmax differentiate nandrolone from test?) or send off for testing.

EDIT: that's a good find! however, I couldn't find what brand of test was used there, unfortunately

 

[janoshik]

@mands what blood levels would you expect of 50 mg test / wk and 100mg test / wk?

At how high a dose would you consider 145 nmol / l normal?

thank you

 

[mands]

@mands what blood levels would you expect of 50 mg test / wk and 100mg test / wk?

At how high a dose would you consider 145 nmol / l normal?

thank you

Depending on the individual:

Peak levels around 17 on 50mg

Peak level around 33 on 100mg

I would say anywhere from 500-600mg maybe a little more.

mands

 

[janoshik]

Depending on the individual:

Peak levels around 17 on 50mg

Peak level around 33 on 100mg

I would say anywhere from 500-600mg maybe a little more.

mands

Thank you. I'm not well versed in blood levels, esp. in US you use different units, but I'll try to not forget it.

That would mean that, as OP is on 650 total AAS / wk that either all his gear is testosterone, or that deca has 100% cross reactivity with the testosterone assay.

Now, neither of those possibilities really seem likely to me and both would be huge news.

I'm lost on this one. Maybe just a single bad test or something absolutely random?

What do you think?

 

[mands]

Thank you. I'm not well versed in blood levels, esp. in US you use different units, but I'll try to not forget it.

That would mean that, as OP is on 650 total AAS / wk that either all his gear is testosterone, or that deca has 100% cross reactivity with the testosterone assay.

Now, neither of those possibilities really seem likely to me and both would be huge news.

I'm lost on this one. Maybe just a single bad test or something absolutely random?

What do you think?

Actually we use ng/dL here for the most part. Not sure where the OP is from. I don't believe here in the US.

Yes on both or his deca is overdosed as well and maybe less than 100% cross reactivity. Really can't say for sure.

I would be curious to see what testing method was used for the OP. It could or could not eliminate some questions.

I feel if the information is accurate from the OP there was a flaw in the testing, procedure, test itself or could be random like you say.

I truly believe from seeing other tests over the years using ECLIA method. I would still bet on the test.

mands

 

[janoshik]

oh.

thank you, always happy to have a discussion like this, it is a pleasure and I've learned something new

 

[woolymaggot]

Thanks for the discussion and replies, while I didn't understand most of it initially, it has made good reading in considering testing causes. I'm grateful for this.

The test was performed by medichecks.com and a UK based lab. I understand they use LC/MS/MS.

I am now only on 300mg Pharmacom DECA per week. I will not introduce the test cyp and repeat the test in a few weeks in an attempt to allow all other compounds to leave my body. Please correct me if I'm wrong but theoretically, given time, my test levels should be zero or negligible if everything is as it should be.

I want to be clear that I want the outcome to be the above and my DECA be DECA. I wanted this to be the case for both UGLs but this may not be the outcome.

I have chosen to test again with Pharmacom as I have more of this left and very little Pharmasource.

I have posted results and photos of labmax of both UGLs. Both appeared passes but I must confess the deviation in colours, different carrier oils and my difficulty interpretating along with my latest bloods leaves me with doubts. As a concept, I like labmax and it is a positive step. However, moving forward it's both labmax and bloods.

I will post bloods as soon as I get them. I want to leave it long enough to test so that the DECA is the only compound in me. I'm prepared to put up with the symptoms of low test for my clarification. If the outcome of this is useful for anyone else then I've in some way contributed

 

[woolymaggot]

Actually we use ng/dL here for the most part. Not sure where the OP is from. I don't believe here in the US.

Yes on both or his deca is overdosed as well and maybe less than 100% cross reactivity. Really can't say for sure.

I would be curious to see what testing method was used for the OP. It could or could not eliminate some questions.

I feel if the information is accurate from the OP there was a flaw in the testing, procedure, test itself or could be random like you say.

I truly believe from seeing other tests over the years using ECLIA method. I would still bet on the test.

mands

Outcome 1 All compounds being test would be the worst outcome for me.

Outcome 2 The cross reactivity causing falsely high test levels would not be the worst outcome for me.

Outcome 3 Overdosed DECA and cross reactivity less than 100% wouldn't be the end of the world

I will look to contact the lab and seek a definitive take on the method used, ECLIA or LC/MS/MS. My initial research was feedback from other user posted results. It was difficult to find anything on their mobile site so a quick email should resolve this. They seem a pretty well established lab but random results, poor interpretation and other variables causing freak results must be a possibility.

Hopefully a repeat test and clarification on process can add should clarity.

Thanks again for the impartial discussion, this really helps as I do not want to speculate and draw unnecessary conclusions.

 

[janoshik]

Outcome 1 All compounds being test would be the worst outcome for me.

Outcome 2 The cross reactivity causing falsely high test levels would not be the worst outcome for me.

Outcome 3 Overdosed DECA and cross reactivity less than 100% wouldn't be the end of the world

I will look to contact the lab and seek a definitive take on the method used, ECLIA or LC/MS/MS. My initial research was feedback from other user posted results. It was difficult to find anything on their mobile site so a quick email should resolve this. They seem a pretty well established lab but random results, poor interpretation and other variables causing freak results must be a possibility.

Hopefully a repeat test and clarification on process can add should clarity.

Thanks again for the impartial discussion, this really helps as I do not want to speculate and draw unnecessary conclusions.

If it indeed was LC/MS/MS, then I think there is no arguing about it being outcome 1, or similar.

 

[mands]

Thanks for the discussion and replies, while I didn't understand most of it initially, it has made good reading in considering testing causes. I'm grateful for this.

The test was performed by medichecks.com and a UK based lab. I understand they use LC/MS/MS.

I am now only on 300mg Pharmacom DECA per week. I will not introduce the test cyp and repeat the test in a few weeks in an attempt to allow all other compounds to leave my body. Please correct me if I'm wrong but theoretically, given time, my test levels should be zero or negligible if everything is as it should be.

I want to be clear that I want the outcome to be the above and my DECA be DECA. I wanted this to be the case for both UGLs but this may not be the outcome.

I have chosen to test again with Pharmacom as I have more of this left and very little Pharmasource.

I have posted results and photos of labmax of both UGLs. Both appeared passes but I must confess the deviation in colours, different carrier oils and my difficulty interpretating along with my latest bloods leaves me with doubts. As a concept, I like labmax and it is a positive step. However, moving forward it's both labmax and bloods.

I will post bloods as soon as I get them. I want to leave it long enough to test so that the DECA is the only compound in me. I'm prepared to put up with the symptoms of low test for my clarification. If the outcome of this is useful for anyone else then I've in some way contributed

Here lies the issue with you only running Deca.

If indeed your Deca is Deca it could still give you a false reading for testosterone. This will not help and leave us in the same position we are now.

I would of dropped the deca completely and re-tested in a month or so with just running the low dose of Testosterone.

Does that make sense?

Or am I missing something?

mands

 

[mands]

If it indeed was LC/MS/MS, then I think there is no arguing about it being outcome 1, or similar.

I agree. They only other scenario really would just be a bad test(random) as jano posted previously.

mands

 

[mands]

Here is another one for interference. Page 11 & 12

https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/cdrh_docs/pdf12/k120009.pdf

Nandrolone tested above the measuring interval.

mands

 

[janoshik]

Here is another one for interference. Page 11 & 12

https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/cdrh_docs/pdf12/k120009.pdf

Nandrolone tested above the measuring interval.

mands

Now do I understand it correctly as over 100% cross reactivity with that Abbott ECLIA assay?

Wow.

 

[woolymaggot]

Thanks for the responses and references guys, very much appreciated.

I'm very much laymen with lab analysis methods but your discussion has helped me fill in the blanks from my interpretation of the paper.

If I'm interpreting it correctly then if my lab uses ECLIA method then cross reactivity with nandrolone could cause another false high.

If the lab uses LC/MS/MS then it should potentially avoid this issue and produce an accurate result providing there isn't a random or false result.

I'd have dropped all bar the test but the DECA has become an effective treatment for my inflammation(i'm also conscious that high test levels may alleviate my symptoms). If another lab test can rule out it being test whilst easing my symptoms then although I won't definitively know it's DECA, it's more likely it is. I know only a lab analysis on the compound will prove that particular vial is DECA or not.

All I can do is what I have done, research, identify a well tested source and take a punt. Like many though, I'll be tempted to deviate from this from time to time.

Thanks again chaps.

 

[woolymaggot]

As an update, medichecks confirmed they do use Roche ECLIA as opposed to LC/MS/MS.

This confirms @mands suspicion that this cross reactivity could be the reason.

I'm going to add my lower than mid range E2 into the mix. I have no idea what my baseline is but IF I react like most i.e higher test equals higher E2 then in theory my E2 should be significantly higher. However, this is obviously an educated guess.

As mands eluded to, my test levels would be consistent with 650mg of test. He also indicated that if ECLIA resulted in 100% cross reactivity of nandrolone then there is real possibility that the lab test could well be the reason for a false test reason. It could also actually mean it's also pretty accurately dosed as well.

One thing I'm glad about is the fact I didn't stamp my feet and start shooting my mouth off. I posted and members helped.

If you are kind enough to read this, this may be common knowledge to you, if not, look at the first sticky (tren results in high E2 and DECA results in high test in many cases). . It does ring a bell that I may have already read this but it didn't stick. Also refer to the paper mands posted

I want to thank both mands and @jano for their input. It has been a great help for me in maintaining an open minded view even if I did think, "oh shit" at first. I bow to their knowledge. Not a bad community hey.

Now this ain't definitive but I'm a lot more reassured that my DECA is DECA. A lab analysis of each compound would confirm but I can't see me being comfortable sending it off (just being honest).

Another way (not definitive but indicative) may be to drop the DECA, stick with test only but increase it to gauge my E2 levels. IF it raises it notably then in theory, it would indicate that on 650mg test, it would be a hell of a lot higher and my DECA ain't test.

Thanks again guys, I may do as above just out of curiosity but for now I'll have faith my initial research is still a good punt.

 

[janoshik]

Thank you for the follow up, it is very appreciated!

 

[mands]

As an update, medichecks confirmed they do use Roche ECLIA as opposed to LC/MS/MS.

This confirms @mands suspicion that this cross reactivity could be the reason.

I'm going to add my lower than mid range E2 into the mix. I have no idea what my baseline is but IF I react like most i.e higher test equals higher E2 then in theory my E2 should be significantly higher. However, this is obviously an educated guess.

As mands eluded to, my test levels would be consistent with 650mg of test. He also indicated that if ECLIA resulted in 100% cross reactivity of nandrolone then there is real possibility that the lab test could well be the reason for a false test reason. It could also actually mean it's also pretty accurately dosed as well.

One thing I'm glad about is the fact I didn't stamp my feet and start shooting my mouth off. I posted and members helped.

If you are kind enough to read this, this may be common knowledge to you, if not, look at the first sticky (tren results in high E2 and DECA results in high test in many cases). . It does ring a bell that I may have already read this but it didn't stick. Also refer to the paper mands posted

I want to thank both mands and @jano for their input. It has been a great help for me in maintaining an open minded view even if I did think, "oh shit" at first. I bow to their knowledge. Not a bad community hey.

Now this ain't definitive but I'm a lot more reassured that my DECA is DECA. A lab analysis of each compound would confirm but I can't see me being comfortable sending it off (just being honest).

Another way (not definitive but indicative) may be to drop the DECA, stick with test only but increase it to gauge my E2 levels. IF it raises it notably then in theory, it would indicate that on 650mg test, it would be a hell of a lot higher and my DECA ain't test.

Thanks again guys, I may do as above just out of curiosity but for now I'll have faith my initial research is still a good punt.

I appreciate you keeping us informed and taking the time to figure this one out.

I believe you are on the right track sir. Have a good one.

mands