Cool! I did not know this! It's essentially working as a natural "ester" as we would call it in regards to AAS? Reminds me a lot of adding an ester to slow the release of the compound...
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
TURBOVITAL HYGENE BIOPHARMA Long R3 IGF-1
- Thread starter ProfessorX
- Start date
Cool! I did not know this! It's essentially working as a natural "ester" as we would call it in regards to AAS? Reminds me a lot of adding an ester to slow the release of the compound...
janoshik
Subscriber
My hypothesis would be that you can get your body to make only so much IGF-1 even with HGH - after a certain point there are diminishing returns and too high sides from HGH.
In this scenario adding IGF-1 or its analogues makes sense.
Just a hypothesis, though.
The main idea past that is that the analogues are modified to the point that the binding proteins (garbage man metaphor could be used here) have lower affinity to them - but they are not modified too much, so they are still working on the receptor.
Increlex® (mecasermin [rDNA origin] injection) contains human insulin-like growth factor-1 (rhIGF-1) produced by recombinant DNA technology. IGF-1 consists of 70 amino acids in a single chain with three intramolecular disulfide bridges and a molecular weight of 7649 daltons. The amino acid sequence of the product is identical to that of endogenous human IGF-1.
IGF-1 is bound to six IGF binding proteins, with > 80% bound as a complex with IGFBP-3 and an acid-labile subunit.
Most studies concerning the effects of IGF-1 derivatives have been carried out in animal models, with little to no data available for humans.
IGF-I variants which bind poorly to IGF-binding proteins show more potent and prolonged hypoglycaemic action than native IGF-I in pigs and marmoset monkeys
(DES - LR3)
IGF-I variants which bind poorly to IGF-binding proteins show more potent and prolonged hypoglycaemic action than native IGF-I in pigs and marmoset monkeys (PDF Download Available)
If we are looking at 'Bioidentical' like HGH then IGF1 DES would be closer to IGF1
IGF1 70 amino - 7649 molecular weight
IGF1 DES 67 amino - 7365 molecular weight
IGF1 LR3 83 amino - 9111 molecular weight
IGF-1 is bound to six IGF binding proteins, with > 80% bound as a complex with IGFBP-3 and an acid-labile subunit.
Most studies concerning the effects of IGF-1 derivatives have been carried out in animal models, with little to no data available for humans.
IGF-I variants which bind poorly to IGF-binding proteins show more potent and prolonged hypoglycaemic action than native IGF-I in pigs and marmoset monkeys
(DES - LR3)
IGF-I variants which bind poorly to IGF-binding proteins show more potent and prolonged hypoglycaemic action than native IGF-I in pigs and marmoset monkeys (PDF Download Available)
If we are looking at 'Bioidentical' like HGH then IGF1 DES would be closer to IGF1
IGF1 70 amino - 7649 molecular weight
IGF1 DES 67 amino - 7365 molecular weight
IGF1 LR3 83 amino - 9111 molecular weight
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janoshik
Subscriber
Good point!
DES I doubt would cause any sort of immune response as it doesn't have ANY structure that is not found in native IGF-1, now that I'm thinking about it.
DES I doubt would cause any sort of immune response as it doesn't have ANY structure that is not found in native IGF-1, now that I'm thinking about it.
I don't know why some companies still source 192 aa Growth Hormone. Not sure if it's used in other applications. But, it's still sold and still around.Right
That was my point in comparing IGF1 and IGF1LR3 Simlar to the list of Growth Hormones
192 was manufactured (Protropin Somatrem) at one time but was "pulled" because of Protein Immunogenicity (immune response)
Just for the record....this is way over my pay grade.....but I do appreciate all the useful info
In the body building world you probably won't see it ever again at this point.
On another note @ProfessorX how are you feeling off?
I personally don't see or can warrant igf-1 use.
mands
janoshik
Subscriber
With IGF1 and the research variants (LR3 - DES)
I'm not sold on it
I agree with you
Plus there's too much misinformation out there trying to promote the "variants" IMO
Being off GH
I'm good
Making good gains with Test, EQ, Chicken, Rice
(keeping it simple)Same with GH
Too much hype
Too much misinformation
I'll do blood work again (IGF1) and decide what's next
But I won't be using dosages that gets me over 350-400 ng/mL if I decide to run GH again at all
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wsw16
Member
Professor x is a gentleman, always good reading his posts. I follow his posts on another board too. Very experienced on the hgh world.
On a completely unrelated note, would love to get your thoughts on mk677. If you've ever tried it? read or know much about it? do you think it's a worthy alternative to hgh and raising igf levels?
I have to completely agree on the hgh dosage. I've been there and done that 10iu thing and apart from extreme water retention it's hard to say I got anything out of it that I wouldn't have got from half the dose.
On a completely unrelated note, would love to get your thoughts on mk677. If you've ever tried it? read or know much about it? do you think it's a worthy alternative to hgh and raising igf levels?
I have to completely agree on the hgh dosage. I've been there and done that 10iu thing and apart from extreme water retention it's hard to say I got anything out of it that I wouldn't have got from half the dose.
MK-677
I got nuthin brutha
Only thing I recall seeing is elevated IGF1 (blood work) with MK-677
Don't think I've seen IGF1-LR3 elevate IGF1 (blood work)
I bet @mands @jano have some better info for you
Here's some links:
Ibutamoren - Wikipedia
Two-month treatment of obese subjects with the oral growth hormone (GH) secretagogue MK-677 increases GH secretion, fat-free mass, and energy expendi... - PubMed - NCBI
MK-677, an Orally Active Growth Hormone Secretagogue, Reverses Diet-Induced Catabolism1 | The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism | Oxford Academic
Thanks @wsw16
wsw16
Member
Thanks bro, reason I ask is I'm using it myself now. Month in and noticing good results with it with a couple of typical hgh sides. Will be getting bloods soon to confirm numbers but I think it's a very interesting compound. Will have to see how and if it affects other health markers like fasting blood glucose etc as well.
Have read the studies and they all look pretty good. Perhaps something for you to experiment with in future
. Would be interesting to see your experiences with it
Have read the studies and they all look pretty good. Perhaps something for you to experiment with in future
. Would be interesting to see your experiences with it
Info for @mands and @jano
Most studies concerning the effects of IGF-1 derivatives have been carried out in animal models, with little to no data available for humans.
The Old World rats and mice, part of the subfamily Murinae in the family Muridae, comprise at least 519 species. Members of this subfamily are called murines.
Murine models have been commonly used for study, yet murine models may not reliably predict biology in larger animals and human
IGF-I analogues (DES/LR3) that bind poorly to IGFBPs are substantially more potent than IGF-I at stimulating growth in rats. However, rodents differ from other mammals because they contain only minimal circulating levels of IGF-II and they are poorly responsive to GH
Link:
In vivo actions of IGF analogues with poor affinities for IGFBPs: Metabolic and growth effects in pigs of different ages and GH responsiveness - ScienceDirect
Most studies concerning the effects of IGF-1 derivatives have been carried out in animal models, with little to no data available for humans.
The Old World rats and mice, part of the subfamily Murinae in the family Muridae, comprise at least 519 species. Members of this subfamily are called murines.
Murine models have been commonly used for study, yet murine models may not reliably predict biology in larger animals and human
IGF-I analogues (DES/LR3) that bind poorly to IGFBPs are substantially more potent than IGF-I at stimulating growth in rats. However, rodents differ from other mammals because they contain only minimal circulating levels of IGF-II and they are poorly responsive to GH
Link:
In vivo actions of IGF analogues with poor affinities for IGFBPs: Metabolic and growth effects in pigs of different ages and GH responsiveness - ScienceDirect
Yes sir I'm running 20mg a day right now. 10mg before bed and 10mg when I wake up. I should be getting tested soon.
Here is a thread I started with similar studies @ProfessorX cited and more.
MK-677
mands
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janoshik
Subscriber
They are not selling that for human use, though - as far as I understood.
Certainly not at 0.3 IUs at 145$ - this product I have found.
janoshik
Subscriber
Cool link, thanks!
Just skimmed over it, but it seems to support my hypothesis that the IGF and analogues are the most beneficial with HGH being already supplemented.
Correct! I believe I have one that does though. I'll look further.
And this might interest you and @ProfessorX if you haven't read it already. This somewhat coincides with Jano was discussing?
Despite the lack of evidence for anabolic activity of GH in healthy humans, there is evidence for anticatabolic activity of GH as well as IGF-I. In a study comparing infusion of IGF-I with GH, it was demonstrated that both agents reduce negative nitrogen balance during calorific restriction in humans. A single dose of GH was administered during 24-h period, whereas IGF-I was infused continuously for 16 h each day. Serum IGF-I concentrations were threefold higher in the IGF-I-treated subjects compared with those on GH, but the treatments were equally effective at reducing the negative nitrogen balance. This suggests that the GH treatment was more potent (Clemmons et al., 1992), which is in line with GH having both IGF-I-mediated and direct effects. Alternatively, it may be due to the negative feedback inhibition of endogenous GH release or on autocrine/paracrine actions of the tissue IGF-I in the IGF-I treatment group. It is noteworthy that neither GH nor IGF-I resulted in positive nitrogen balance.
Send to
J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1992 Jul;75(1):234-8.
Reversal of diet-induced catabolism by infusion of recombinant insulin-like growth factor-I in humans.
Clemmons DR1, Smith-Banks A, Underwood LE.
Author information
Abstract
Treatment of catabolic conditions with insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I), the peptide that mediates some of the anabolic growth-promoting effects of GH, offers potential advantages of avoiding the hyperglycemia caused by treatment with GH. A state of moderate catabolism was produced in six normal, young adult volunteers by restricting their daily dietary intake to 20 kilocalories/kg/day. During the last 6 days of two 2-week diet-study periods, they received either IGF-I (12 micrograms/kg/h by i.v. infusion over 16 h) or GH (0.05 mg/kg/day by sc injection). IGF-I improved nitrogen balance from -236 +/- 45 mmol/day (+/- SE) during diet alone, to -65 +/- 40 mmol/day (P less than 0.001) during the last 4 days of IGF-I infusion. A similar effect was produced by GH. IGF-I infusion decreased fasting blood glucose from 4.94 +/- 0.91 mmol/L to 3.13 +/- 0.44 mmol/L (P less than 0.001), while GH raised blood glucose values (4.75 +/- 1.01 mmol/L on diet alone, to 5.48 +/- 1.00 during the period of GH treatment; P less than 0.05). Despite these differences in blood glucose, IGF-I infusions decreased serum insulin (74.9 +/- 26.8 pmol/L on diet alone, to 16.7 +/- 1.5 pmol/L during IGF-I) and serum connecting-peptide concentrations (2.14 +/- 0.89 mmol/L on diet alone, to 0.97 +/- 0.14 during IGF-I), while GH raised insulin (109.4 +/- 31.3 pmol/L, P less than 0.05 during GH) and connecting-peptide (3.12 +/- 0.59 mmol/L, P less than 0.02). At the dose of each hormone used, the attenuation of nitrogen wasting produced by infusions of IGF-I was similar in magnitude and timing to that produced by injections of GH. The reduction in serum glucose concentrations produced by IGF-I compared with the increase in glucose noted during GH treatment, could benefit hyperglycemic catabolic patients.
mands
