Valuedrop during payment with crypto

[Rido]

do you mind if I dm you privately? I'm getting a bit off topic here.

thats fine

 

[jasonl]

I am in a situation that I have not been in before and would like to hear other opinions.

Here is the scenario:

I order product x worth y euros from a fairly new seller. After confirming the order, we agree to pay the total amount in a cryptocurrency, in this case BTC.

I transfer the agreed total amount y in cryptocurrency of the same value at the time of the transfer.

AFTER the transfer, there was a massive exchange rate drop within a few hours.

Now the seller gets in touch and says that too little crypto was transferred, although it was clearly enough at the time of the transfer, even a little too much.
If the value had risen massively in the other case, could I have written to the seller to demand that he deliver more products?

In this case, it was not about a lot and I have sent the amount, simply because I would like to do business with the seller in the future.

I would just like to know in general how other users or sellers deal with it.

If you want to avoid these sort of situations it's best to buy using stablecoins - and if the seller doesn't take stablecoins while also complaining about fluctuations in price I would just avoid them in the future.

 

[jstev4610]

If you want to avoid these sort of situations it's best to buy using stablecoins - and if the seller doesn't take stablecoins while also complaining about fluctuations in price I would just avoid them in the future.

its going to take a ton of us buyers requesting to pay with stables to get anyone to change from btc/eth

 

[jasonl]

its going to take a ton of us buyers requesting to pay with stables to get anyone to change from btc/eth

So most stablecoins actually exist on blockchains such as eth. They are not their own seperate entities/blockchains. I don't see why vendors who accept eth would not accept some of the more popular stablecoins on the chain like USDT/USDC/DAI/BUSD. The vendors who I have seen accept eth generally also take some form of stablecoin.

 

[jstev4610]

So most stablecoins actually exist on blockchains such as eth. They are not their own seperate entities/blockchains. I don't see why vendors who accept eth would not accept some of the more popular stablecoins on the chain like USDT/USDC/DAI/BUSD. The vendors who I have seen accept eth generally also take some form of stablecoin.

yeah I am aware, its equally boggling to me. My company has a payment system that runs on USDC-Polygon (customer visa cc payment swaps usdc under the hood, direct settlement of usdc to merchants defi wallet, offramp mechanism via spend capabilities with an attached visa card/direct ach using the usdc). In talking to a couple people it seems everyone is worried about the anonymity of anything other than eth and btc. Bro science=block chain science.

 

[jstev4610]

if anyone wants to really be worried, I was on a founders round table giving a payments perspective (compliance/aml) where a group is actively working to increase and standardize the var load on eth, passing through historical transaction records.

The intent is to head off sec regulatory concern and compliance before they are asked to do so. A push to CEFI is on the backs of that.

 

[Cohiba]

I kind of wish the sellers would tell us how much bitcoin to send rather than the USD price total, because it gets complicated with different pricing at different exchanges.

The other issue is the transaction fees. I use cashapp and they tell you the transaction fee, but when you go back to look through your transfer history, it is very unclear how much you actually sent vs the transaction fee.

 

[jstev4610]

I kind of wish the sellers would tell us how much bitcoin to send rather than the USD price total, because it gets complicated with different pricing at different exchanges.

The other issue is the transaction fees. I use cashapp and they tell you the transaction fee, but when you go back to look through your transfer history, it is very unclear how much you actually sent vs the transaction fee.

I can tell you its AT LEAST 3.9% scheme/acquiring premium/added profit fee and a $.30 static charge for risk engine and gateway fees to onboard. And they likely charge you gas to send it. Plus, they're gauging you on the asset price at the time of purchase (inflated), and if you were to sell it they will gauge you with a deflated price. I was playing around with trying to get my hands on BTC a while ago and wanted to see what PayPal looked like. I bought and sold within minutes of each other the the quoted settlement price on btc was over 1k difference. Plus the errors trying to send it out of PayPal, plus the charge for just buying the btc then the charge to send the USD after the sale back out of PayPal.

 

[RedSalmon]

If it is crypto, I will go for USDT, so far it never let me down.... They are as stable as they can be really

 

[mikea]

Cash app is best route for BTC you just have to adjust and buy 10.00 more . It definitely takes away quick while obtaining BTC address.

 

[Flavoredit]

I can tell you its AT LEAST 3.9% scheme/acquiring premium/added profit fee and a $.30 static charge for risk engine and gateway fees to onboard. And they likely charge you gas to send it. Plus, they're gauging you on the asset price at the time of purchase (inflated), and if you were to sell it they will gauge you with a deflated price. I was playing around with trying to get my hands on BTC a while ago and wanted to see what PayPal looked like. I bought and sold within minutes of each other the the quoted settlement price on btc was over 1k difference. Plus the errors trying to send it out of PayPal, plus the charge for just buying the btc then the charge to send the USD after the sale back out of PayPal.

I totally get what you're saying about the complexities of using cryptocurrencies for payments. The price discrepancies across various exchanges and the transparency of transaction fees can be frustrating.
It's crucial for sellers and platforms to provide clear instructions, especially for those new to crypto. And you're right. The additional fees and price fluctuations can catch people off guard. It's a reminder that the crypto space still has some way to go in terms of user-friendliness.
If you're ever in need of a secure and straightforward crypto wallet, you might want to explore crypto wallet as a service. It can simplify the process and help you keep track of your transactions more easily.

 

[jstev4610]

I totally get what you're saying about the complexities of using cryptocurrencies for payments. The price discrepancies across various exchanges and the transparency of transaction fees can be frustrating.
It's crucial for sellers and platforms to provide clear instructions, especially for those new to crypto. And you're right. The additional fees and price fluctuations can catch people off guard. It's a reminder that the crypto space still has some way to go in terms of user-friendliness.
If you're ever in need of a secure and straightforward crypto wallet, you might want to explore crypto wallet as a service. It can simplify the process and help you keep track of your transactions more easily.

I am cofounder of a company trying to give more utility to usdc, we have a defi wallet, cashapp style wallet payment request system, merchant credit card payment processing that settles in usdc, off ramp options of the usdc including visa debit card and ach/wire without having to every convert to usd or go to a bank account. There's a long way to go for sure for crypto to both be adopted and have viable every day utility in the ecosystem, and crypto natives aren't exactly helping themselves by assuming everyone will just have to "get it". The lack of adoption of stablecoins as a payment standard is what I'm not totally understanding the resistance to, defaulting to btc and eth for most everyone. Then again, I'm also guilty of thinking why don't people just "get it", but with my company we're trying to make it as easy and cheap as possible to transact.

 

[jstev4610]

yeah I don't buy that as a legit reason though. usdc exists on multiple blockchains, eth is just a reward token on the ethereum blockchain for proof of work (well used to be). One is volatile, the other isn't. if I want to prebuy tokens to use at a later time for a purchase, I don't want the value of that to change from one day to the other unpredictably. If I am going to only buy a token at the point of purchase, when its going to be the closest to a 1:1 value for the USD$ of the sale, then I'm stuck with whatever the gas prices are at that time, which could be astronomical. If I am onboarding BTC, its doubly difficult to onboard cheaply and still volatile. I can buy $500 in usdc on ethereum when gas is cheap, hold it in my wallet until I want to send it to pay for a purchase, and still have $500 usd value.If we are up only like the second half of 2021, we're not having this discussion. But we consider all of 2022 or late spring 2021, prebuying isn't going to happen. Plus I would assume these vendors are converting their crypto to something they can spend anyway and not just hodling everything. What the hell is that PM e-voucher for USD?