Very tricky GH timing protocol

[kilsong]

I've been on 2iu TP Black Tops every night before bed for 7 weeks. My goal is to get to 4 iu daily.
The lathergy forced me to do them at nite before bed.
In the last week, I've uped to to 2.5 iu before bed. So far so good.
I want to follow conventional wisdom and do 2iu early am and then do some fasted cardio. And the remainder 2 iu later in the day.
My only problem is I work til 7 pm four days a week.. I'm in bed SLEEPING by 730 pm.
Additionaly, I go to the gym between 2-3 AM six days a week..
I would have just injected 2iu around 7 pm and my question is when to to take the other 2iu.
My goals are fat loss and new cell muscles.

I'm also running DHB about 400 /week...NPP/300 week.. and test cyp about 400/ week.
Any and all suggestions would be appreciated..
Thanks.
(yes, I posted this elsewhere.. But a lot of you really knowledgeable guys aren't on that "other site".. So I'm asking here as well)

 

[RackPuller]

Dude it’s really doesn’t matter, just be in a deficit, do cardio in a fasted state with gh in a few hrs prior (I wake up at 3, pin 3iu and go back to sleep till 6am for cardio then)

the other just whenever- just get your 4iu in you it’s so minuscule when it’s happening

 

[kilsong]

I kinda like to think that as well.
So... Basically.ur saying.. 7pm before bed.. 7 am for the next?

 

[RackPuller]

I kinda like to think that as well.
So... Basically.ur saying.. 7pm before bed.. 7 am for the next?

That’s perfect

 

[Mac11wildcat]

The biggest factor is simply getting it in consistently. The vast majority of users should be super concerned with timing so long as you’re not taking large doses directly before meals.

 

[kilsong]

So in theory.. 4 IUs at once before bed.. about two hrs after eating would suffice?

 

[Mac11wildcat]

So in theory.. 4 IUs at once before bed.. about two hrs after eating would suffice?

It would but if the goal is fatloss, the next step after “get it in ya,” would be 2iu split doses as 2-3iu is where lipolysis peaks for GH and multiple doses would induce that multiple times.

 

[RackPuller]

The biggest factor is simply getting it in consistently. The vast majority of users should be super concerned with timing so long as you’re not taking large doses directly before meals.

What an example of a large dose pre meal and what would be meal consist of/when in the day would it be for growth in your opinion? Do you have personal or on hand experience with this?

 

[Mac11wildcat]

What an example of a large dose pre meal and what would be meal consist of/when in the day would it be for growth in your opinion? Do you have personal or on hand experience with this?

I say that in the view that the OP probably isn’t using slin, so he should avoid GH near meals. That’s all.

I do use GH near meals but it’s with insulin support. I’m currently running 6iu EOD, 2 iu fasted before some cardio, 4iu pre-workout with slin. Toying with when that dose is taken around training, but right now it’s slin, eat 15m later, pin GH about 20-30m after that, go train 1hr after eating.

 

[Type-IIx]

I say that in the view that the OP probably isn’t using slin, so he should avoid GH near meals. That’s all.

I do use GH near meals but it’s with insulin support. I’m currently running 6iu EOD, 2 iu fasted before some cardio, 4iu pre-workout with slin. Toying with when that dose is taken around training, but right now it’s slin, eat 15m later, pin GH about 20-30m after that, go train 1hr after eating.

Does timing around meals affect rhGH effects meaningfully? I thought that was an issue more with the peptides (the Ghrelin mimetics, particularly).



This study showed that a single 5iU rhGH dose (subq white circles, jet-inject black dots) had an oscillating, rhythmic effect on circulating FFAs, i.e., 4hr post FFA concentration was similar to 12hr and 20hr post). I suppose if anything, for lipolysis, you might time feedings accordingly (fat intake 4hr post subq) - but I don't know any mechanism whereby feedings would affect absorption or bioavailability if that's the concern?

Verhagen, A., Ebels, J. T., Jonkman, J. H. G., & Dogterom, A. A. (1995). Pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics of a single dose of recombinant human growth hormone after subcutaneous administration by jet-injection: comparison with conventional needle-injection. European Journal of Clinical Pharmacology, 49(1-2). doi:10.1007/bf00192361

 

[RackPuller]

I say that in the view that the OP probably isn’t using slin, so he should avoid GH near meals. That’s all.

I do use GH near meals but it’s with insulin support. I’m currently running 6iu EOD, 2 iu fasted before some cardio, 4iu pre-workout with slin. Toying with when that dose is taken around training, but right now it’s slin, eat 15m later, pin GH about 20-30m after that, go train 1hr after eating.

Yes with slin but I’m asking more of slin and gh use outside of training and in the morning. - with meals

like 2-3iu gh and 5units log with meals 3,4 and 5 after the same in the morning and pre/post

I’m really just saying that I like it a lot like that
What draws you toward having your gh and slin pre rather post?

 

[RackPuller]

Does timing around meals affect rhGH effects meaningfully? I thought that was an issue more with the peptides (the Ghrelin mimetics, particularly).

This study showed that a single 5iU rhGH dose (subq white circles, jet-inject black dots) had an oscillating, rhythmic effect on circulating FFAs, i.e., 4hr post FFA concentration was similar to 12hr and 20hr post). I suppose if anything, for lipolysis, you might time feedings accordingly (fat intake 4hr post subq) - but I don't know any mechanism whereby feedings would affect absorption or bioavailability if that's the concern?

View attachment 150177

I agree with tbis

but still believe when fat loss is the goal you still want your gh in fasted state for max lard shreds

 

[Mac11wildcat]

Yes with slin but I’m asking more of slin and gh use outside of training and in the morning. - with meals

like 2-3iu gh and 5units log with meals 3,4 and 5 after the same in the morning and pre/post

I’m really just saying that I like it a lot like that
What draws you toward having your gh and slin pre rather post?

I’m really still just experimenting, but ore seems more relevant to me as you’d see the IGF spike right about the time training is finishing with a pre-pin. Also have to say the current order I’m doing it in is resulting in RETARDED pumps..like absolutely silly.

 

[Mac11wildcat]

Does timing around meals affect rhGH effects meaningfully? I thought that was an issue more with the peptides (the Ghrelin mimetics, particularly).


View attachment 150177
This study showed that a single 5iU rhGH dose (subq white circles, jet-inject black dots) had an oscillating, rhythmic effect on circulating FFAs, i.e., 4hr post FFA concentration was similar to 12hr and 20hr post). I suppose if anything, for lipolysis, you might time feedings accordingly (fat intake 4hr post subq) - but I don't know any mechanism whereby feedings would affect absorption or bioavailability if that's the concern?

Verhagen, A., Ebels, J. T., Jonkman, J. H. G., & Dogterom, A. A. (1995). Pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics of a single dose of recombinant human growth hormone after subcutaneous administration by jet-injection: comparison with conventional needle-injection. European Journal of Clinical Pharmacology, 49(1-2). doi:10.1007/bf00192361

The timing I mentioned is 1. To utilize it fasted with cardio and 2. To avoid any major blood sugar issues.

most guys won’t see issues at 2iu. I did. So im overly cautious.

 

[Type-IIx]

I agree with tbis

but still believe when fat loss is the goal you still want your gh in fasted state for max lard shreds

Makes sense for peptides

 

[RackPuller]

I’m really still just experimenting, but ore seems more relevant to me as you’d see the IGF spike right about the time training is finishing with a pre-pin. Also have to say the current order I’m doing it in is resulting in RETARDED pumps..like absolutely silly.

Its true

 

[Type-IIx]

The timing I mentioned is 1. To utilize it fasted with cardio and 2. To avoid any major blood sugar issues.

most guys won’t see issues at 2iu. I did. So im overly cautious.

Fasted cardio+rhGH is interesting. I understand the combination of fasted cardio with an α2-adrenoceptor antagonist, the GHRHs/GHRPs, clen, but not seeing it with rhGH. But I may need to give it a shot if practice shows you good evidence. I won't take peps anymore, not sure enough about quality tbh.

 

[Mac11wildcat]

Fasted cardio+rhGH is interesting. I understand the combination of fasted cardio with an α2-adrenoceptor antagonist, the GHRHs/GHRPs, clen, but not seeing it with rhGH. But I may need to give it a shot if practice shows you good evidence. I won't take peps anymore, not sure enough about quality tbh.

Could all be bullshit. Half of bodybuilding is bro science, and studies tend to not align directly with practical evidence, but so far it’s worked for me, even if just because of anecdote/placebo. It’s also good timing for getting gH in an having less concern over lethargy and glucose issues

 

[Type-IIx]

Could all be bullshit. Half of bodybuilding is bro science, and studies tend to not align directly with practical evidence, but so far it’s worked for me, even if just because of anecdote/placebo. It’s also good timing for getting gH in an having less concern over lethargy and glucose issues

Bro-science is often ahead of the literature. I try hard to balance practical bro-science with academic studies. It's a lot more fun knowing bro-science led the way on myriad issues that the research just backed up later. Science is usually observational more than instructional. It's also impossible to know "all the science." I like to take a hybrid approach, and have read some good bro-science books and information from forums.

 

[lilhawk]

As others have said, just get your daily doses in and don't overthink it. If the goal is fat loss, then split it up throughout the day. I take 6iu of Serostim per day, so I take 2iu first thing am fasted, then do cardio, I then take 2iu pre workout in the late afternoon, then my last 2iu is before bed. I also use metformin 500mg twice daily. Currently dieting using carb cycling diet, so on high carb days I use humalog in small doses throughout the day, and also preworkout.