Vitamin B6 (P5P) reduces HGH and Numb Hands (Carpal Tunnel symptoms)?

[MFAAS]

I was just googling some random shit this morning. I ran out of P5P, which I was taking 200 mg per day of during my MENT cycle just because. I ran out maybe like a week ago. I noticed that the numb hands has gotten quite a bit worse at night. This morning I woke up and my fingers (pointer finger to medial ring finger) actually hurt. I work in IT and obviously spend a lot of time at the computer, and I play PC games on top of that a few hours a week usually depending on the weather. Now, when not on HGH I have ZERO numbness or any issues with sensation or strength in my hands. Carpal tunnel definitely has not hit me yet. However, this 10 IU HGH EOD is for sure giving me some issues now. Originally I was amazed at how little numbness I had, but now it's quite bad. Btw my blood pressure is amazing as always and my weight hasn't changed since last week (other than I gained a pound )

Anyway, I saw the P5P bottle on the counter and I recalled a study that B6 can reduce nerve pain and neuropathy.

I decided to do some searching about HGH and B6/P5P. There's not much, but I did find a post on "musclecoalition.org" by poster "baby1" (I am amused by this) which states:

"Research has also shown that supplemental multi-vitamins, especially containing B6 (pyridoxine), may help or prevent this condition. Vitamin deficiency is the most likely cause for Carpal Tunnel Syndrome to occur while on HGH therapy.

Side Effects of HGH - Carpal Tunnel
Carpal Tunnel Syndrome is a condition characterized by pain and numbing or tingling sensations in the hand and caused by compression of a nerve in the carpal tunnel at the wrist. Doctor Elmer M. Cranton, M.D states that the likely reason for this is that the increases in levels of growth hormone speed tissue repair and protein synthesis in the body; this rebuilt tissue can potentially pinch the nerve, if the nerve is out of place. This tissue repair can create a greater demand for all nutrients, which may therefore aggravate any preexisting vitamin deficiency. If this is combined with other things that HGH may cause, namely increase in body water content and slight increases in the bone mass of the forearm and wrist, it's easy to see that HGH could trigger carpal tunnel syndrome if it was on the verge of occurring anyway. Rehydrated tissues can bulk back to normal within a carpal tunnel that was already narrowing with age. Both those effects, incidentally, increased hydration and stronger bones, are beneficial to the body as a whole."

I don't know where they found this. So if you struggle with numb hands due to HGH, perhaps try adding B6/P5P.

According to consumerlab, super high doses of pyroxidine can CAUSE nerve damage as well as skin lesions, but usually not unless you're taking over 600 mg per day. This is definitely something to keep in mind though. Unfortunately, a lot of B-complex and B vitamins as well as energy drinks will often contain tens of times the max daily intake of various B vitamins, including P5P. People really need to watch out for energy drinks. It is often assumed it's harmless because it's water soluble--that just isn't true. Sure, you'll pee it out, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have the potential to do some damage first, especially with chronic use.

So on one hand P5P can help with carpal tunnel symptoms and on the other it can cause them. Wonderful. Personally, I just ordered some more and plan to take it again and lower my HGH dose until then. I will try again and let y'all know how the numbness goes.

 

[may2021]

How's the 10 IU HGH EOD working for you, besides the sides?
What are you seeing?

Thanks

 

[Kurosawa]

I had CTS so bad on both hands i ended up getting surgery for it on my left hand and hopefully soon i’ll get it on my right hand.. It wasn’t from GH use but during that time period when it was real bad to the point that i couldn’t sleep i was also using inj b complex and that didn’t help.

Good find though, i’m sure many people would find this useful.

 

[Type-IIx]

There is no pyroxidine-mediated mechanism in rhGH-induced arthralgia and edema. It is unlikely P5P improves these symptoms. Rather, it is a direct effect of rhGH to enhance bone formation by type I procollagenous activity and to cause retention of fluid as well as sodium, phosphorus, potassium, etc. Basically: hand stiffness induced by rhGH is not actually CTS, it is rather an informal term to describe arthralgia/bone pain and the associated nerve entrapment by edema/fluid retention.

 

[Formsh1ft]

Numb hands is actually a side effect of vitamin B6 lol. Seems counterproductive to me.

 

[MFAAS]

How's the 10 IU HGH EOD working for you, besides the sides?
What are you seeing?

Thanks

What I expected based off other anecdotes. Great muscle gains while losing fat. Better sleep and recovery. It's really good other than the hand numbness that kicked in bad suddenly.

Numb hands is actually a side effect of vitamin B6 lol. Seems counterproductive to me.

At crazy high doses yes, but almost never at the doses we use of 200-300 mg per day.

There is no pyroxidine-mediated mechanism in rhGH-induced arthralgia and edema. It is unlikely P5P improves these symptoms. Rather, it is a direct effect of rhGH to enhance bone formation by type I procollagenous activity and to cause retention of fluid as well as sodium, phosphorus, potassium, etc. Basically: hand stiffness induced by rhGH is not actually CTS, it is rather an informal term to describe arthralgia/bone pain and the associated nerve entrapment by edema/fluid retention.

Yeah I wasn't suggesting so, just sharing my anecdote that my numbness really did get way worse after I stopped the P5P. It could be coincidence. When I start taking it again I will let people know if it helps or not. I am really just interested to see if it does help. I was very stable with the 10 IU EOD with very little sides. Then a the sudden this hand numbness kicked in, for whatever reason about a week after stopping the P5P. We'll see what happens I guess.

Why does HGH cause hand numbness but GH inducing peptides don't? I had my IGF-1 up to like 350 from ipamorelin/MOD grf and never once had a touch of numbness. Do you know why rHGH would cause this but peptides wouldn't?

 

[Type-IIx]

Yeah I wasn't suggesting so, just sharing my anecdote that my numbness really did get way worse after I stopped the P5P. It could be coincidence. When I start taking it again I will let people know if it helps or not. I am really just interested to see if it does help. I was very stable with the 10 IU EOD with very little sides. Then a the sudden this hand numbness kicked in, for whatever reason about a week after stopping the P5P. We'll see what happens I guess.

Why does HGH cause hand numbness but GH inducing peptides don't? I had my IGF-1 up to like 350 from ipamorelin/MOD grf and never once had a touch of numbness. Do you know why rHGH would cause this but peptides wouldn't?

While I've never seen any mechanistic data on this, it's fair to infer that arthralgia and edema are direct GH effects or GH-mediated rather than IGF-I effects/IGF-I mediaed. This is because of what you have mentioned, i.e., that secretagogues do not promote the same prevalence of arthralgia in subjects, as well as the observation that women (who are resistant to rhGH versus men due to the mediating effects of estrogens and the concomitant rise in IGFBP-1) tend to suffer from a high prevalence of these symptoms of arthralgia and edema, even without substantial GH response (increased serum IGF-I).

 

[MFAAS]

So I am going to assume it was just timing. I did start taking the P5P again, but didn't have any acute positive (or negative) changes to things. My right hand seems to be pretty much better, my left hand is still extremely numb sometimes but is getting better. Actually I haven't been able to bench because when I grip the bar it twinges my nerves so weird I feel like I am gonna drop it. Shit sucks. I think I just went up on dose too fast and I am sure using non pharma didn't help--but I couldn't bring myself to spend that much, I am just too frugal. Once the numbness is gone I am going to go back to 2.5 IU per day and just use to to inhibit lipogenesis during the remainder of my bulk. My goal will be to get up to 4-5 IU per day, but probably not until like this summer, so it won't matter for the bulk.

 

[Winnie the Pooh]

I've got carpal in both wrists. My MD told me to take B12, which seems to have helped. She also said wear splints to bed at night. A physiotherapist told me that splints are the gold standard treatment; they said to avoid surgery if at all possible. (I got some padded splints which are quite comfortable to sleep with.)

 

[lilhawk]

I've got carpal in both wrists. My MD told me to take B12, which seems to have helped. She also said wear splints to bed at night. A physiotherapist told me that splints are the gold standard treatment; they said to avoid surgery if at all possible. (I got some padded splints which are quite comfortable to sleep with.)

I had it in my left hand. Tried therapy, splints, nerve glide exercises, etc. Had nerve study done showing moderate nerve damage and ortho doc recommended surgery. It was the easiest thing ever, only regret was not having surgery immediately as it would have saved me 4 months of no sleep due to the constant burning, and pain. Surgery took 5 minutes, and had immediate relief of burning and nerve pain as soon as surgery was over. Only missed 2 weeks of working out. It is one of the most common and simplest surgical procedures there is.

 

[Rido]

I have a feeling this B6 treatment is related more to neuropathy secondary to b6 deficiency rather than treatment if CTS

 

[Dr.V.P.C.]

While I've never seen any mechanistic data on this, it's fair to infer that arthralgia and edema are direct GH effects or GH-mediated rather than IGF-I effects/IGF-I mediaed. This is because of what you have mentioned, i.e., that secretagogues do not promote the same prevalence of arthralgia in subjects, as well as the observation that women (who are resistant to rhGH versus men due to the mediating effects of estrogens and the concomitant rise in IGFBP-1) tend to suffer from a high prevalence of these symptoms of arthralgia and edema, even without substantial GH response (increased serum IGF-I)

So please Type IIx
At the very end of the day, is there something we can do to minimize this grueling issue?

 

[Type-IIx]

So please Type IIx
At the very end of the day, is there something we can do to minimize this grueling issue?

Potentially combining rhGH & rhIGF-I in a manner that permits rhGH dose reduction. Seek to reduce estrogens, including any supplemental DHEA, if applicable. Control but do not abolish aromatase with an AI if on aromatizing androgen (chiefly, testosterone). Otherwise, rhGH dose reduction. If those fail, rhGH just may not be for you.

 

[Dr.V.P.C.]

Potentially combining rhGH & rhIGF-I in a manner that permits rhGH dose reduction. Seek to reduce estrogens, including any supplemental DHEA, if applicable. Control but do not abolish aromatase with an AI if on aromatizing androgen (chiefly, testosterone). Otherwise, rhGH dose reduction. If those fail, rhGH just may not be for you.

Thank you very much.
I am still doing all of this (I"m on deca primo, no test). I was doing 7 ui pharma saizen intravenously EOD, loving the results, but after 4 weeks doing great, the night before yesterday my hands suddenly start to numb and pop at night. (last year i suffered the same with pharma sandoz omnitrope 6ui intramuscular EOD). I talked to an ifbb open pro here in Brazil, he told me that saizen has a shorter half life and shooting ev should avoid the hand numb and pain, but unfortunately for me it didn’t work well.
I will wait some days until it subsides completely (last night i took a pill of midazolam to be able to sleep and it worked). And will start 2ui ED Intramuscular to see if I can handle.
Keep strong.

 

[badboy]

I've got carpal in both wrists. My MD told me to take B12, which seems to have helped. She also said wear splints to bed at night. A physiotherapist told me that splints are the gold standard treatment; they said to avoid surgery if at all possible. (I got some padded splints which are quite comfortable to sleep with.)

Whenever I put my splints on I get sleepy now haha. CTS still sucks though