What is the best training theory for SIZE?

[muslhed1971]

I read the sticky on hypertrophy and want to know from you guys what you think is the best way to train for size. I orginally thought size came from strength but look at some of todays physiques and notice not all of them go the 4-6 rep route. I usually start at 8 reps for a warm up then go down to 6 and sometimes 4. I have heard that reps in the 8-10 range are best for size. I am already pretty strong but want more size so strength by itself does not really matter to me. My training also consists of about 3-4 exercises per bodypart and 3-4 sets just depending on energy level and bodypart.
I always thought "lift heavy as possible to get big" but seems like it's not working that well. I have been training seriously for about 13 or so years.
Please give me some real world input guys.

 

[Snowblind]

I use DC training and it is absolutely the best training program I've ever used.

I'm sure I don't have to tell you this, but diet is everything with any kind of training you do. When my gains start coming to a halt, I just add a 3-5 tablespoons of olive oil in each of my protein/fat meals, and the scale starts to climb again. My protein is upwards of 450 grams of protein per day and sometimes as high as 500 grams. So the only thing I adjust is fats and carbs.

 

[treeistheman2]

I read the sticky on hypertrophy and want to know from you guys what you think is the best way to train for size. I orginally thought size came from strength but look at some of todays physiques and notice not all of them go the 4-6 rep route. I usually start at 8 reps for a warm up then go down to 6 and sometimes 4. I have heard that reps in the 8-10 range are best for size. I am already pretty strong but want more size so strength by itself does not really matter to me. My training also consists of about 3-4 exercises per bodypart and 3-4 sets just depending on energy level and bodypart.
I always thought "lift heavy as possible to get big" but seems like it's not working that well. I have been training seriously for about 13 or so years.
Please give me some real world input guys.

play with the rep ranges bro, or cycle them. 4-6 wks of 4-8 reps, 4-6wks of 8-12 reps, or something like that.

 

[t-money]

i dont think there is a best program...as stated many of times...what works for one may not work for another...of course some programs you can use that have a more likelihood of working would be...

5X5 program...of course I personally think this should be modified and worked in and out of a regular training program.

I guess my training philosophy is evaluate yourself...what is your age, what is your hormone profile, what is your training age, stress, eat habits, etc...use these to put together your volume, rep range, etc.

I personally like to rotate volume and rep ranges each week..i feel the high reps and fewer sets week helps my CNS recover and is not as stressful on my joints...i seem to not get overtrained when I have a week like this every 2-3 weeks...then i gradually drop my reps and increase sets over a 1-4 week period before cycling back through...

I guess my point is I feel there is no perfect program...there are good programs you can use but you may want to adjust the program to suit your body and needs...for example a 23 year old will recover a hell of alot quicker than a 60 year old...also a 15 year old will not need as frequent of training as a 30 year old due to training age...i dont know if this helps or not...its what I feel is best and yeah i will get flamed by this but a great book IMO is Get Buffed by Ian King...this and the Poliquin Principles have helped me greatly...get on to me bob smith lol...you will find out quickly he is not a fan of King...which is fine...its his opinion and bob knows his shit...so listen to him...but give King and Poliquin a shot...both IMO are two of the greatest strength coaches ever...also Tudor Bompa (sp?) is another great strength coach.

Great reply BioAs. The bottom line is that everyone is different and what works for me may or may not work for BioAs or Phreezer or...These types of things are learned over a long period of time spent training. Years and Years.

For me, I believe that volume yields volume. In other words, high volume workouts will increase the volume of your muscles. This works for me. The only caveat to this is that high intensity/high volume is hell on your body and without proper nutrtion and rest, will be counterproductive leading to injury.

Realize that the body adapts to anything very quickly and you need to recognize when this plateau will happen so you can alter your program accordingly. In order to keep growing you have to keep the body in a relative state of discomfort. A plateau is simply the body adapting to the current stimulus and putting itself on "cruise control".

Good luck and good training!

T

 

[t-money]

In additon to focusing on day to day workouts and week to week, you need to have a vision of the longe term. 1 year, 3 years, even 8-10 years down the road. I see too many people focused strictly on each individual workout without taking into consideration the bigger scheme and goals.


T

 

[Bob Smith]

Great reply BioAs. The bottom line is that everyone is different and what works for me may or may not work for BioAs or Phreezer or...

True, but muscle is still muscle and in the grand scheme of things, an individual's muscle makeup wont be very much different than anyone elses.

 

[RH81]

I like to alternate to keep my muscle guessing...one week maybe a 5x5 program,then next week a pyramid type routine etc...seems to work pretty well.

 

[Juggernauttx]

What I think is a good training theory for size is to try to attack all the muscle fibers and capillary density. train frequently, and use progressive loading.

You can set this up in different ways. One way is have a high rep day 15-20 reps, and a medium rep range 8-10, and a heavy day 3-5. Kind of like an old Bill Starr program, which have worked very well for alot of athletes.

Another way is to do it all in one session 3 times a week as a drop set. start off real heavy, like 3 reps, lower the weight, do 6 reps, lower the weight and do 12 reps.

You will have enough tension with the 3 reps and 6 reps, and there will be metabolic adaptations when doing the 12 reps with the accumulated reps before hand.

I remember Fred Hatfield also recommending trying to train all the different rep ranges for the fastest hypertrophy growth.

 

[Hogg]

but give King and Poliquin a shot...both IMO are two of the greatest strength coaches ever...also Tudor Bompa (sp?) is another great strength coach.

You rate Charles Poliquin (aka "the plagarizer") a greater strength coach than Bompa ?

Such is akin to feeding you shit from your own toilet friend.

 

[Hogg]

I like to alternate to keep my muscle guessing...one week maybe a 5x5 program,then next week a pyramid type routine etc...seems to work pretty well.

Unless you are talking about keeping the same exercises and following 5x5 only to the extent of alternating the rep ranges in the same exercises, I do not see how this can be of benefit. Do you follow the progression ladder of the 5x5 bi-monthly? As I said, I do not see how this can work based on the theory of the 5x5 but, by all means, enlighten me.

 

[Freddy]

You rate Charles Poliquin (aka "the plagarizer") a greater strength coach than Bompa ?

Such is akin to feeding you shit from your own toilet friend.

Oh man, do I agree with this statement.

Poliquin is a really great marketer of ideas, and I do suppose that's gotta count for something. And in all fairness, no great coach "invents" much, if anything, that hasn't already been done before. In fact we're discussing this very topic on another board...how Louie Simmon's genius isn't inventing new ideas, just properly applying older ideas in newer, smarter ways.

But of course, Louie Simmons is very good about properly citing his sources. This is something Poliquin hasn't done, as he's actually ripped off our very own JS.

 

[RH81]

Unless you are talking about keeping the same exercises and following 5x5 only to the extent of alternating the rep ranges in the same exercises, I do not see how this can be of benefit. Do you follow the progression ladder of the 5x5 bi-monthly? As I said, I do not see how this can work based on the theory of the 5x5 but, by all means, enlighten me.

I go extremely heavy with my 5x5 workout and maybe the next week I'll follow up with a higher rep range 12,10,8,6 & 4 while gradually increasing weight...If I stick to the same shit I seem to stagnate as far as muscle growth...I'm sore after every workout and I haven't plateaued yet following this type of routine,and I'm still growing off it...so it's doing soemthing right.

 

[Hogg]

I go extremely heavy with my 5x5 workout and maybe the next week I'll follow up with a higher rep range 12,10,8,6 & 4 while gradually increasing weight...If I stick to the same shit I seem to stagnate as far as muscle growth...I'm sore after every workout and I haven't plateaued yet following this type of routine,and I'm still growing off it...so it's doing soemthing right.

Ok, so is the week of 12,10,8 etc all submaximal ( not at failure ) ? If so, its sort of like a form of periodization in a way......an odd way, but a way nonetheless.

But remember, the premise of the 5x5 was to increase load when you cleared your 5 rep across all 5 sets with that load.....modulating your loading is also legal in the 5x5 so if you are doing what you consiider "heavy/light" with this method that you are using, you could just as well throttle your loading in the 5x5.