Type-IIx
Member
I would not expect it to differ! It is nandrolone itself that presents elevated cardiovascular disease risks.
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MESO-Rx Exclusive What Makes Nandrolone Different? Unique Benefits for Joints, Muscles, and Blood
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QuadFather
Member
Nope, I have bad reactions to NPP and deca, especially NPP and thank god it clears quick I do not like how it makes my heart feels if I do ANYTHING above 20mg or 30mg max
But tren ace I can run 700mg each week for 24 weeks straight no problems and feel great even some weeks doing 1g
No idea why , npp/deca makes me feel like a pregnant sea cow so I keep it at 10mg or 20mg daily because i do notice joint benefits
shoestring
New Member
Strange how it can effect some of us like this.
QuadFather
Member
What do you mean brother?
SwolieGuacamole
Member
Interesting
SwolieGuacamole
Member
Just to add. I’ve ran my fair share of npp/deca, that its become my favorite compound, even with the terrible mental side effects.
I’ve taken a decent break from using it, for obvious cardiovascular risks associated. But I haven’t been able to replicate the size or look I get from nandrolone. Which taught me that’ll be what kills me lol. Such a shame.
I’ve taken a decent break from using it, for obvious cardiovascular risks associated. But I haven’t been able to replicate the size or look I get from nandrolone. Which taught me that’ll be what kills me lol. Such a shame.
Are those cardiovascular risk so high if dosage is kept moderate?
OldGHGuy
Member
Nandrolone's a hell of a drug!
SwolieGuacamole
Member
My bro science assumption would say no. And I haven’t seen much as far as actual documented cases through research. I’ve seen more issues with tren.
I’ve also seen a TON of guys on 100-200mg deca per week through clinics, none of which talk about the cardiovascular risk which is mind blowing to me.
Everything has risk, is this just held under a microscope and making it larger than it is. No one really knows dose, duration and effect.
Someone correct me if I’m wrong. But ARB/ACE seem to offer protection against remodeling while on. And coming off seems to help reverse changes as well.
I don’t like pushing npp past 250 and 300 is my max for the above reasoning. But risk is risk at the end of the day. Nothing guaranteed.
espresso123
Member
Sadly nothing much to add. Individual parameters may also play a huge role regarding these issues.
Im not the biggest expert regarding all the effects the compounds we use have on the body, but I do belive an ARB and a properly managed diet (electrolytes) are to take care of since that compound messes around with aldosterone levels aswell.
And who knows much about their own ACE activity, changes in AT1 levels and the individual effects of certain aldosterone levels on their own body?
It gets complicated and these compounds were never designed in the way we are using them.
Regarding testosterone, a leading TRT doc I had an appointment with told me he got quite many guys running 500mg/w of test "for ever" and have no issues. But it is not the rule.
Talking about that, androgen receptor sensitivity based on CAG-repeat chains in your genes may also play an individual role to individual response and also risks (our hearts also have androgen receptors).
Big topic, not much data. Not even enaugh for Testosterone itself. Not even talking about all the different stacks.
Stealth500
Member
I've always been told this was the way. never gone above 200mg as advised by the local bro scientists at the gym growing up.
"High Amount Of Calcium In The Blood
Deca Durabolin can cause high calcium blood levels which may lead to kidney failure, heart attacks, or other cardiovascular diseases.
If you experience any of these symptoms when using Deca Durabolin, seek medical attention immediately because it’s a serious condition that could potentially be fatal.
The risk of side effects like this is increased if you use more than 200mg of Deca Durabolin per week."
Type-IIx
Member
OldGHGuy
Member
Yes, AI is fantastic! Brave new world...
Type-IIx
Member
Can’t live with it, can’t live without it!
espresso123
Member
Started using NPP the second time. My joints and tendons took a toll from the past months after a long break after a series of injuries.
Idea was to slow down on training and enhance recovery with 100-150mg NPP weekly (as I once did in the past) due to some reoccuring issues in specific tendons. MRI was clear on it aswell.
3 weeks in it (serum plasma levels are reached already) done a 24h RR monitoring. Could be better, but levels are still good considering I do not do much cardio lately.
On top some water retention is and was always unavoidable using this compound for me. Not saying I run around with a moon face but there definitly is more water retention and I instantly notice it if I do not fully care about sodium/potassium intake.
The mood effects I described are there again. Especially right after taking it the first week I instantly noticed a change. However, I was aware of it due to my prior experience.
I had nights with terrible dreams I usually do not have that way. Sleeping issues are more pronounced in terms of shorter duration and not being able to sleep more afterwards.
As before, I tend to get these self isolating emotional states again. Just happens without a true reason and can definitly affect social life, relationships etc.
It can also go into a different direction and makes me truly "careless" in a way. As things Id always enjoy leave me cold. It is pretty hard to describe.
There is also no aggression or agitation which is a slight tendency I do get from DHTs a little bit. But with DHTs its more sort of being more short tempered while NPP is like a sneaky asshole building up some sort of frustration you cannot define.
Id like to find better words but perhaps someone can relate to that.
Good news: Healing goes well properly, muscle preservation is given but those 19nors are some compounds I do try to stay away from using them for (personal opinion here) just maximizing performance output in terms of gains.
Never used "medium-higher" doses of gear in my life so take it with a grain of salt. But compared to double dose TRT vs TRT + 100-150NPP , the NPP wins by far when it comes to gains and performance from my personal response.
Idea was to slow down on training and enhance recovery with 100-150mg NPP weekly (as I once did in the past) due to some reoccuring issues in specific tendons. MRI was clear on it aswell.
3 weeks in it (serum plasma levels are reached already) done a 24h RR monitoring. Could be better, but levels are still good considering I do not do much cardio lately.
On top some water retention is and was always unavoidable using this compound for me. Not saying I run around with a moon face but there definitly is more water retention and I instantly notice it if I do not fully care about sodium/potassium intake.
The mood effects I described are there again. Especially right after taking it the first week I instantly noticed a change. However, I was aware of it due to my prior experience.
I had nights with terrible dreams I usually do not have that way. Sleeping issues are more pronounced in terms of shorter duration and not being able to sleep more afterwards.
As before, I tend to get these self isolating emotional states again. Just happens without a true reason and can definitly affect social life, relationships etc.
It can also go into a different direction and makes me truly "careless" in a way. As things Id always enjoy leave me cold. It is pretty hard to describe.
There is also no aggression or agitation which is a slight tendency I do get from DHTs a little bit. But with DHTs its more sort of being more short tempered while NPP is like a sneaky asshole building up some sort of frustration you cannot define.
Id like to find better words but perhaps someone can relate to that.
Good news: Healing goes well properly, muscle preservation is given but those 19nors are some compounds I do try to stay away from using them for (personal opinion here) just maximizing performance output in terms of gains.
Never used "medium-higher" doses of gear in my life so take it with a grain of salt. But compared to double dose TRT vs TRT + 100-150NPP , the NPP wins by far when it comes to gains and performance from my personal response.
xrayphoton13
Member
I hear you on the dht's. Masteron definitely makes me short tempered to the point I'm thinking about no longer using it
Ateam2023
Member
Ive been doing 45 mg of npp 3x a week since January, and besides the npp blues/erection quality, i have noticed improved joint comfort and that is exactly why i started using it, (the only reason) I have since incorporated some Mast e to combat the npp blues , just started 2 weeks ago ,BUT a noticeable change in mood for the better, now the damn acne starting to pop up (only on upper quads/lower glutes is starting to get more noticeable, ,
espresso123
Member
It tends to be more the caloric deficit for me.
However, it is boosting it up. I dont know about masteron, never used it. But on Primo e.g. I felt great.
Whats worst is a harsher cut combined with Var to me. This makes me explosive. On Primo I tend to be more short tempered aswell but remain more calm vs. Var.
But it depends on everyones personality I guess.
So far I managed to be
"okay" with NPP. I guess once you know whats going on you can control it way better over time.
But yes, tolerance for bullshit goes down alot having DHTs in your system by my experience.
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