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What to add to Reta for appetite suppression? Tirz, Cagri, or something else?

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deeoeraclea

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I've been on Reta for about 4 months now. Started at 1 mg/week and slowly titrated up to my current dose of 3 mg/week. It raises my heart rate a little bit. And, it gives me some GERD. But, I haven't really experienced any appetite suppression. And, I haven't lost any weight. My LDL has gone down though. So, I'd like to stay on it. But, I'm looking to stack it with something else that gives me a bit of appetite suppression. I've heard both Tirz and Cargilintide are effective for this purpose. Any suggestion as to which is better? And, how should I dose them (considering I plan to continue using the Reta)? Open to other GLP-1s as well. But, I'm probably going to avoid Sema, as it seems to have the most undesirable side effects (e.g., nausea).
 
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Very low dose Sema is the surest, and possible safest, bet, if you must stack.

I mean low dose. .25mg / week, and don't even consider increasing until after 2 weekly doses so you know what you're dealing with. It can from "this isn't enough" to "holy shit emergency room" fast if you ramp up too quickly.
 
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Ghoul said:
Very low dose Sema is the surest, and possible safest, bet, if you must stack.

I mean low dose. .25mg / week, and don't even consider increasing until after 2 weekly doses so you know what you're dealing with. It can from "this isn't enough" to "holy shit emergency room" fast if you ramp up too quickly.
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Why would Sema be safer than Tirz? Both are FDA-approved. And Sema seems to have a worse side-effect profile.
 
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deeoeraclea said:
Why would Sema be safer than Tirz? Both are FDA-approved. And Sema seems to have a worse side-effect profile.
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GLP-1 is the key "food noise" reduction molecule. Not GIP. With Sema you're only adding more food noise blunting, without needlessly adding Tirz's GIP, which is mostly responsible for non appetite suppression effects.

The GIP/Glucagon balance was key to making Reta work, when other attempts at Glucagon receptor agonist drugs failed (they caused some dangerous effects in fact).

Tirz has the native GIP sequence and works exactly like endogenous GIP, Reta very intentionally includes a GIP analogue that is much stronger. It's 9x more potent than endogenous GIP. That stronger GIP effect is needed to prevent hyperglycemia caused by Glucagon glucose release.

With both types, weak and super strong GIP in your system it's now a crapshoot which type attaches to which GIP receptor. Weak Tirz "natural" 1x GIP sitting in a receptor would block 9x strength GIP from Reta.

The GLP-1 analog in Reta is 1.4x more potent than natural, while in Sema it's 2.6x. A much closer match, and no risk of weakening the Reta GLP-1 effect, since a 2.6x strength Sema GLP-1 blocking a 1.4x Reta GLP-1 from occupying the same receptor will only increase GLP-1's effects somewhat, not weaken them.

Degree of GLP appetite suppression is hypothesized to be determined by the overall proportion of total receptors occupied (a number determined by genetics. probobly explains the wide variation in response) By adding more GLP-1 you're doing exactly that. A very targeted increase of just the molecule needed to suppress appetite, without randomly messing with other incretin hormone effects on insulin, glucose, liver metabolism etc.

The safest thing to do of course is just increase the dose of the GLP drug you're on, up to the max clinically proven safe in trials.
 
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deeoeraclea said:
I've been on Reta for about 4 months now. Started at 1 mg/week and slowly titrated up to my current dose of 3 mg/week. It raises my heart rate a little bit. And, it gives me some GERD. But, I haven't really experienced any appetite suppression. And, I haven't lost any weight. My LDL has gone down though. So, I'd like to stay on it. But, I'm looking to stack it with something else that gives me a bit of appetite suppression. I've heard both Tirz and Cargilintide are effective for this purpose. Any suggestion as to which is better? And, how should I dose them (considering I plan to continue using the Reta)? Open to other GLP-1s as well. But, I'm probably going to avoid Sema, as it seems to have the most undesirable side effects (e.g., nausea).
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Honestly Tirz standalone is what would serve you best. But if you remain on Reta I’d add low dose Cagri for hunger suppression. .25-.50mg of Cagri would likely be enough. That’s its main purpose and it works well. Too well if you take too high of a dose. When Reta gave me 22 days of hiccups I experimented with Cagri and it really does that one thing well.
 
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deeoeraclea said:
How did you dose Cagri? And, have you tried Sema or Tirz for comparison?
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I’ve done tirz in the past. I am currently on 8 mg of Reta.
I did .333 mg of Cagri. Felt it within a few days on the first shot. I didn’t have to wait much to feel the affects. Haha.
I would take about 4 or 5 bites of my food, and that was good. I had to eat the rest of it a few hours later.
 
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Is there a reason you're still running what is basically the starting dose for 16 weeks and are somehow surprised it's not doing a whole lot?

The study protocol was 2mg>>4mg>>8mg>>12mg with 4 weeks at each step. A prudent person would push past the bare minimum dose before adding other compounds...

2mg didn't do much for me. 4mg was a nice steady recomp and 8mg is like 4x more powerful than the 4mg dose...it absolutely smokes fat off.
 
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BamaCrazy said:
Honestly Tirz standalone is what would serve you best. But if you remain on Reta I’d add low dose Cagri for hunger suppression. .25-.50mg of Cagri would likely be enough. That’s its main purpose and it works well. Too well if you take too high of a dose. When Reta gave me 22 days of hiccups I experimented with Cagri and it really does that one thing well.
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Ghoul said:
The GLP-1 analog in Reta is 1.4x more potent than natural, while in Sema it's 2.6x. A much closer match, and no risk of weakening the Reta GLP-1 effect, since a 2.6x strength Sema GLP-1 blocking a 1.4x Reta GLP-1 from occupying the same receptor will only increase GLP-1's effects somewhat, not weaken them.
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Personally, I've reached my goal and don't need anything stronger, but I'm wonder which is more powerful?


Reta + Cagri?

vs

Reta + Sema?
 
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explodingHeart said:
Personally, I've reached my goal and don't need anything stronger, but I'm wonder which is more powerful?


Reta + Cagri?

vs

Reta + Sema?
Click to expand...
I’ve only used Sema standalone, Reta standalone and Cagri standalone. Using that knowledge I’m purely guessing. But both Sema and Cagri will completely shut down hunger at low doses. The difference to me is there are less side effects on Cagri compared to Sema. Sema was not a very fun drug for me and I quickly moved to Tirz.
 
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BamaCrazy said:
I’ve only used Sema standalone, Reta standalone and Cagri standalone. Using that knowledge I’m purely guessing. But both Sema and Cagri will completely shut down hunger at low doses. The difference to me is there are less side effects on Cagri compared to Sema. Sema was not a very fun drug for me and I quickly moved to Tirz.
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Can you clarify? You said you only used Sema, Reta and Cagri stadalone. But then you said your moved from Sema to Tirz. So, you must have also used Tirz standalone? If so, can you comment on how Tirz compares to the others?
 
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deeoeraclea said:
Can you clarify? You said you only used Sema, Reta and Cagri stadalone. But then you said your moved from Sema to Tirz. So, you must have also used Tirz standalone? If so, can you comment on how Tirz compares to the others?
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I mean I’ve never combined Reta with Sema, or Reta with Cagri. I used Sema, then moved to Tirz, then switched to Reta. Then I quit Reta when I got hiccups for 22 days. I was hungry as hell after that so I experimented with Cagri. I was on 5mg Tirz for 5 months, added 4mg Reta. Increased Reta after two months to 6mg and dropped Tirz completely.

For weight loss Tirz is the best. I found that hunger suppression was sufficient without the sides that Sema gave me. Plus on a caloric deficit I dropped 45 pounds in 5 months. But I felt a little lazy and not very motivated on Tirz (not really fatigue) so I tested out Reta for maintenance. It worked great.

Reta doesn’t have the same hunger suppression but I was able to keep body fat low and put on lean muscle tissue while at times eating way too much. It does something to my metabolism the other two did not.
 
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The heart rate elevation has been found to normalize after about four months, and antacids, acid reducers, or proton pump inhibitors can fix the complications associated with GIRD.

If you don’t want to go up in dose, adding Sema will affect only one receptor. It may simplify the process of figuring out what you tolerate.
 
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Wizbang said:
Im surprised some of them haven't far exceeded top dosing yet, 20mg of reta really shuts down the ole appetite.
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99% of the stackers do it long before they reach the maximum pharma dose. Some first timers do it right from the beginning.

Meanwhile the poor folks stuck on the boring Wegovy and Zepbound pharma protocols, once a week fixed dose pens, see extremely high rates of success.
 
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