What’s the current state of generic GH

[Toaster]

Summary:

Don't filter your GH
Don't leave your GH reconstituted for long periods of time.
As of today no testing method exists that indicates Pharma is better or different than UGL

Aggregation is a thing. GH such as Serostim (GH/Sucrose/Phosphoric acid) presumed good for up to 14 days according to the manufacturer.

QSC (GH/Mannitol) may or may not degrade faster than that.

Not seeing anything new presented that says people should change what they've been doing. Most people already operate under the assumption that reconstituted peptides degrade rather quick in comparison to the lyophilized version.

 

[Lovegod82]

I agree psychosomatic effects will always play a big role in "feels". There is a huge difference in terms of pharma vs UGL formulations however.

The excipients used in pharma hgh are far, far more comprehensive than UGL, which is limited to one or two ingredients. This is because preventing aggregation is crucial to minimizing immunogenicity, something UGL (and their customers) don't give a shit about. Aggregation also wastes gh, as it's ineffective in aggregated form.

Reconstitute vials of pharma and UGL, and they may both test as 99% pure, dimer free, but keep them for a week in a refrigerator and the aggregate content of UGL is certainly going. to be far higher.


QSC, probably the biggest seller of UGL HGH, only uses mannitol as an excipient. There is literally nothing to prevent degradation or aggregation. Combine that with crappy BAC water and it's going to go downhill even faster. Those products of degradation are very likely to cause side effects.

Compare that to Norditropin:

histidine, poloxamer 188, phenol, mannitol, HCl/NaOH

Or Genotropin:

dibasic sodium phosphate, glycine, mannitol, metacresol, monobasic sodium phosphate

Here's a list of the major brands and their excipients. They're not including those additional chemicals for no reason:

Table 8, Description of Somatropin Products - Somatropin (Genotropin) for Subcutaneous Injection - NCBI Bookshelf

I agree psychosomatic effects will always play a big role in "feels". There is a huge difference in terms of pharma vs UGL formulations however.

The excipients used in pharma hgh are far, far more comprehensive than UGL, which is limited to one or two ingredients. This is because preventing aggregation is crucial to minimizing immunogenicity, something UGL (and their customers) don't give a shit about. Aggregation also wastes gh, as it's ineffective in aggregated form.

Reconstitute vials of pharma and UGL, and they may both test as 99% pure, dimer free, but keep them for a week in a refrigerator and the aggregate content of UGL is certainly going. to be far higher.


QSC, probably the biggest seller of UGL HGH, only uses mannitol as an excipient. There is literally nothing to prevent degradation or aggregation. Combine that with crappy BAC water and it's going to go downhill even faster. Those products of degradation are very likely to cause side effects.

Compare that to Norditropin:

histidine, poloxamer 188, phenol, mannitol, HCl/NaOH

Or Genotropin:

dibasic sodium phosphate, glycine, mannitol, metacresol, monobasic sodium phosphate

Here's a list of the major brands and their excipients. They're not including those additional chemicals for no reason:

Table 8, Description of Somatropin Products - Somatropin (Genotropin) for Subcutaneous Injection - NCBI Bookshelf

Just for information purposes here is the ingredient Meditropes uses per TP. Would you consider Medis on par with pharma as far as ingredients goes?

 

[Ateam2023]

This is what those ingredients are used for in case anyone was interested,,,,,

Just for information purposes here is the ingredient Meditropes uses per TP. Would you consider Medis on par with pharma as far as ingredients goes?

 

[songsofpyramids]

Does someone smarter in chemistry than me know why they’d be using a chelating agent to bind metal ions like Disodium EDTA in HGH? That stands out to me but I won’t pretend to be informed on this matter.

 

[Ateam2023]

Does someone smarter in chemistry than me know why they’d be using a chelating agent to bind metal ions like Disodium EDTA in HGH? That stands out to me but I won’t pretend to be informed on this matter.

from my limited chemistry knowledge, its used primarily to prevent aggregation and enhance stability of the hormone, it can also help manage "metal toxicity "

 

[cargin]

Thanks. The sum total of this, for those who care, is that whatever steps one is willing to take to control the factors we can to reduce immunogenicity has a payoff. Maybe small, maybe, in the long run, huge. I'm not calling anyone an idiot for failing to follow all the best practices. I certainly don't every time. But it's info worthy of being put out there and considered. Thats all. The health of randos, with a few exceptions, is of no concern to me.

I used to "show my work", but it's too much effort, most don't read it, fewer comprehend it. I'm always happy to go into more detail on request to help others learn, and the exercise benefits me as well. since it prompts me to update my knowledge with current research. But I guarantee you, if some clown wants to step up for a smackdown, I'm always well prepared for that too.

so would you advise filtering after reconstitution and dilution at 10iu/ml a good standard for immunogenicity practices or is there anything else you'd add on as important elements of peptide hygiene, specifically in the case of HGH?

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

I think it's reasonable to deduce that the simple formulation of Serostim degrades too much after 14 days to support the use of the 5mg and 6mg vials for multi dose purposes.

Is it because its too big? nope

It's because reconstitution liquid that it comes with is sterile water and not BA.

People are overthinking the reason why it is not multi-use. those are meant for daily injections.

7 vials in a kit. 4 kits a month. Daily vial injections of serostim for HIV patients... 28 injections per fill...

 

[Lovegod82]

Is it because its too big? nope

It's because reconstitution liquid that it comes with is sterile water and not BA.

People are overthinking the reason why it is not multi-use. those are meant for daily injections.

7 vials in a kit. 4 kits a month. Daily vial injections of serostim for HIV patients... 28 injections per fill...

You a correct Spiff is all because the sterile water that is provided with the Seros kit instead of the bacwater the prolong the degradation of the GH.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

You a correct Spiff is all because the sterile water that is provided with the Seros kit instead of the bacwater the shorten the degradation of the GH.

Analyzing all this different substances, mixtures, preservatives, when they overlook one of the most basic things

Broken computer
Is the processor working? Yes? Nothing smells burnt.
Power plant is online, house is receiving power.
Power supply is intact.

Sent it in for a 500 dollar diagnostic


Oh shit, we never plugged the fucking cord in.

 

[Toaster]

so would you advise filtering after reconstitution and dilution at 10iu/ml a good standard for immunogenicity practices or is there anything else you'd add on as important elements of peptide hygiene, specifically in the case of HGH?

Do not filter your GH, that is a dumb idea.