Who here is on a statin?

[Anonymous35]

Statins are very dangerous and are often prescribed by doctors. They are sometimes the most unnecessary medication in the world.

there is a well-known one doctor who is also an author: Prof. Dr. med. Walter Hartenbach

the book is called: Die Cholesterin-Lüge
(Engl: The lie about Cholesterol)

It is a German book but there is certainly also a translation into English. This book shows how unnecessary and deadly statins are and how important cholesterol is for the body.

Read it

I would’t say that too
They are good if necessairy
But having cholesterol around 100 isn’t justify for statin

In france they started to treat you when your at 200 at least if not more

 

[BamaCrazy]

10mg of rosuvastatin isn’t the starting dose
It’s 5mg
10mg is for atorvastatin

Initial dose: 10 mg to 20 mg orally once a day

• Lipid levels should be analyzed within 2 to 4 weeks of initiation or titration and the dosage adjusted accordingly

Maintenance dose: 5 mg to 40 mg orally once a day
Maximum dose: 40 mg (reserved for those who have not achieved their LDL-C goal with a 20 mg dose)

Rosuvastatin Dosage Guide + Max Dose, Adjustments - Drugs.com

Detailed Rosuvastatin dosage information for adults and children. Includes dosages for Hyperlipidemia, Hypertriglyceridemia, Prevention of Cardiovascular Disease and more; plus renal, liver and dialysis adjustments.

www.drugs.com

https://www.crestor.com/hcp/about-crestor/dosing-administration

 

[Anonymous35]

Not entirely.



You're arguing against something that wasn't stated. I don't think that everybody should be on a statin. Most of the folks here, particularly in this thread are middle aged mean on AAS with varying degrees of lipid issues. Those folks definitely need to be on a statin. Given the increasing number of people dying from ASCVD every year, it's a straightforward argument to be made that more people should be, presuming we except the extensive research that shows improved outcomes from statin use.



So, you have a misguided notion that I won't feel quite good with low LDL and no means to support that. Lacking any plausible explanation for why you believe that, perhaps you should simply keep it to yourself. Consider the risk of being wrong. If I'm wrong and people manage their lipids too low, what happens? They have difficulty absorbing nutrients and experience a few other symptoms that are easily reversible by backing off the treatment. If you're wrong, people die.

In any case, I feel great. I am the healthiest 52yo that I know. I'm typically stronger and fitter than anyone of any age that I encounter in the gym.... Well, the weightlifting gym. There's some folks in the climbing gym that are like whoa.

View attachment 311528



For one, that's a personal decision and for two you have no grasp on the probabilities of what either course of action entails.



Probably doctors agree with my statement? I give approximately zero fucks what doctors think. There's a whole group of doctors that comprise the American College of Cardiologists for whom I already argued at length with supporting evidence why they are misguided. You think I give two shits what any random doctor thinks?



I'd aim for a bit lower than 100mg/dL, probably starting at 5mg/day which should yield a ~40% reduction in LDL. Presuming your ApoB tracks similarly, this will get you under 80mg/dL, the level below which Tom Dayspring recommends for folks with no other risk factors.



What the fuck are you even on about here? I should not use the best available literature to support my position, but rather I should rely on deduction?



ApoB is causal and necessary for the progression of ASCVD.



Yes, it's working quite well for me and I have plenty of actual evidence to support my opinion that it would work for others.



You need to fuck right off with that anti-science bullshit. I don't want to have to waste my time debunking misinformation.

Your 52 on steroid yes you need statin
But not everybody at 52 is on steroid and then need statin did you understand my statement now ?people who are natural like 99% of the world

No you only choose the studie you want
Like you said « malabsorption » for me its important to consider it.

Steroid too increase the risk of cardiovascular issues
But you still uses them that the contradiction in your statement
You used a lot of medication to live « longer » but you still abuses steroids, does that make sense ?

You can take every medication in the world if you continue to abuse steroids you will not live as long thats for sure
And you will have problems, thats for sure

And those studies are on people who don’t use steroids thats something to understant too

 

[egruberman]

Initial dose: 10 mg to 20 mg orally once a day

My opinion, as I stated earlier in the thread, is that the statin dosing guidelines are the product of the clinical trials in a very high risk population that required maximal lipid management for ethical reasons and that this has let to excessive dosing and a more frequent occurrence of adverse side effects harming the reputation of the entire medical system and leading to the bullshit that the guy posted above.

What will not happen, likely because there's no profit in it, but I would like to see revised dosing guidelines for preventative care with long term outcome trials.

With that said, you are correct, the official recommended starting dose is 10mg daily. However.... Here's the dose response curve for Rosuvastatin:



I fail to see why the initial dose for preventative care should begin on the flat line of diminishing returns in terms of efficacy.

 

[Anonymous35]

Initial dose: 10 mg to 20 mg orally once a day

• Lipid levels should be analyzed within 2 to 4 weeks of initiation or titration and the dosage adjusted accordingly

Maintenance dose: 5 mg to 40 mg orally once a day
Maximum dose: 40 mg (reserved for those who have not achieved their LDL-C goal with a 20 mg dose)

Rosuvastatin Dosage Guide + Max Dose, Adjustments - Drugs.com

Detailed Rosuvastatin dosage information for adults and children. Includes dosages for Hyperlipidemia, Hypertriglyceridemia, Prevention of Cardiovascular Disease and more; plus renal, liver and dialysis adjustments.

www.drugs.com

https://www.crestor.com/hcp/about-crestor/dosing-administration

View attachment 311530

Doesn’t make sence : initial dose 10mg
Maintenance : 5mg -40

It’s not 10mg in france, and used 10 mg at first is good risk to had severe sides effects

Never seen that at least in france

 

[Anonymous35]

My opinion, as I stated earlier in the thread, is that the statin dosing guidelines are the product of the clinical trials in a very high risk population that required maximal lipid management for ethical reasons and that this has let to excessive dosing and a more frequent occurrence of adverse side effects harming the reputation of the entire medical system and leading to the bullshit that the guy posted above.

What will not happen, likely because there's no profit in it, but I would like to see revised dosing guidelines for preventative care with long term outcome trials.

With that said, you are correct, the official recommended starting dose is 10mg daily. However.... Here's the dose response curve for Rosuvastatin:

View attachment 311533

I fail to see why the initial dose for preventative care should begin on the flat line of diminishing returns in terms of efficacy.

Always take it in to consideration the patient used in thoses studies …
Started at 10mg for the average folks will be more harm than good

 

[BamaCrazy]

Doesn’t make sence : initial dose 10mg
Maintenance : 5mg -40

It’s not 10mg in france, and used 10 mg at first is good risk to had severe sides effects

Never seen that at least in france

AstraZeneca Pharmaceuticals (Crestor) is the pharmaceutical company who created the drug and on their website they recommend 10mg. I’m no medical professional but I know how to read. 10mg might be too much as egruberman stated but my Doc started me on 10mg and I’m certain a lot of other doctors recommend that as a starting dose also.

 

[Anonymous35]

By the way ldl at 17 is way to low

 

[Anonymous35]

Crestor is the pharmaceutical company who created the drug and on their website they recommend 10mg. I’m no medical professional but I know how to read. 10mg might be too much as egruberman stated but my Doc started me on 10mg and I’m certain a lot of other doctors recommend that as a starting dose also.

Not in france we started a 5mg

 

[egruberman]

Your 52 on steroid yes you need statin

This is the last chance for an exchange with me. Persist with the silliness and you go on the ignore list.

I am 52 and on a statin because I have a CT-CAC of ~45 which is representative of disease progression. My aunt had an MI in her 40s as a result of a blockage of the LAD, which is precisely where most of my calcified plaque is located. I'm on a statin, ezetimibe, bempedoic acid, and Repatha which the goal to get my ApoB as low as possible to see if there is a regression of calcified plaque. I'm on year 4 of the experiment.

But not everybody at 52 is on steroid and then need statin did you understand my statement now ?people who are natural like 99% of the world

Your grasp of statistics is as weak as your grasp of the literature. You can do your own research. Maybe google "leading cause of death" in your country, my country, the world, etc. People who are natural, people who are not, everyone is dying from heart disease. ApoB is causal for the progression of heart disease. Less ApoB, less heart disease, less death from heart disease. There is a direct causal relationship.

No you only choose the studie you want

No shit. I choose the studies that represent the latest developments in science and medicine for the topic of interest. Those are the studies that I want.

Steroid too increase the risk of cardiovascular issues
But you still uses them that the contradiction in your statement
You used a lot of medication to live « longer » but you still abuses steroids, does that make sense ?

You're presuming that I abuse steroids and that it has a negative effect on my lipids, which is the reason why I manage them so aggressively. As you can see above, that's not the case.

Also, fuck you for coming on to this forum and casting aspersions of "steroid abuse".

You can take every medication in the world if you continue to abuse steroids you will not live as long thats for sure
And you will have problems, thats for sure

It's true, I may have problems, but thus far, I don't suffer quite as much from a deficit of reason as you. I'm going to encourage you to take your judgment and fuck right off. As I said, I am the healthiest and fittest 52yo I know and it's not like I live in some obesity-ridden middle american town. I will be fine, because I have a firm grasp of what I'm doing.

And those studies are on people who don’t use steroids thats something to understant too

Can you explain to me precisely why that's relevant? What are the differences between the population in what specific studies and the group of AAS users in this thread? How would those differences manifest? How do you think the outcomes would differ?

 

[egruberman]

By the way ldl at 17 is way to low

Why? Support your argument with evidence.

Not in france we started a 5mg

Why? Support your argument with evidence.

 

[Anonymous35]

Why? Support your argument with evidence.



Why? Support your argument with evidence.

I stuidies it last year maybe ?
Its increase the risk of hemoragia, cataract
Less absorption of essential nutritient isn’t a good thing too, did i. Need to explain that ?

But hey if your convince that your the healthiest 52yo of your city lmao then good for you

People died from heart attack and whatever the medication you take you still gonna have you heart stop working at some point,

Why its relavant because steroid increase the risk of rhabdomyolyse like ? Oh yeah statins
So it will in fact completly change the end resulfts of the positive outcomes especially at higher dose

How i know your abuse steroid, your behavior lmao, you lost your mind for nothing, can’t arguing without insult clearly not on TRT

 

[egruberman]

I stuidies it last year maybe ?
Its increase the risk of hemoragia, cataract
Less absorption of essential nutritient isn’t a good thing too, did i. Need to explain that ?

Yes, with evidence.

How i know your abuse steroid, your behavior lmao, you lost your mind for nothing, can’t arguing without insult clearly not on TRT

What is insulting is your rude behavior, your arrogance and the fact that you believe that filling pill bottles somehow makes your unsubstantiated opinion worthwhile.

Is this the way all French people behave? Nevermind, I already know the answer.

 

[sushak]

I'd aim for a bit lower than 100mg/dL, probably starting at 5mg/day which should yield a ~40% reduction in LDL. Presuming your ApoB tracks similarly, this will get you under 80mg/dL, the level below which Tom Dayspring recommends for folks with no other risk factors.

Thanks man, will take your advice and post an update in a couple of months. Will try and get apob checked too if they will let me

 

[Anonymous35]

Thanks man, will take your advice and post an update in a couple of months. Will try and get apob checked too if they will let me

I state the exact same advice but you didn’t even listen
And in your case i’m sure only ezetimibe 10mg is enough and to lower the ldl
Its descased around 20% ldl

But yes 5mg rosuvastatin will be more than enough for sure

 

[Anonymous35]

Yes, with evidence.



What is insulting is your rude behavior, your arrogance and the fact that you believe that filling pill bottles somehow makes your unsubstantiated opinion worthwhile.

Is this the way all French people behave? Nevermind, I already know the answer.

Yes i’m after all a professional health so its my job
And no we don’t do that anymore
Its 2025 wake up

Don’t know i don’t have many friend

The evidence of malabsorption and the consequence of it ? Really i need to explain to you what a defici in nutritient can do ? Lmao

 

[sushak]

I state the exact same advice but you didn’t even listen
And in your case i’m sure only ezetimibe 10mg is enough and to lower the ldl
Its descased around 20% ldl

But yes 5mg rosuvastatin will be more than enough for sure

Actually you didn't state the same, I think there was a traduction issue

 

[Anonymous35]

Actually you didn't state the same, I think there was a traduction issue

Thats possible my english isn’t perfect

 

[egruberman]

Yes i’m after all a professional health so its my job

To be rude an arrogant or to offer unsubstantiated opinions?

i don’t have many friend

Something I had already surmised.

he evidence of malabsorption and the consequence of it ? Really i need to explain to you what a defici in nutritient can do ? Lmao

You’re presuming that one should have faith in your opinions and trust your assertions. If your arguments are valid, you shouldn’t have any difficulty supporting them with evidence. This far you have provided no evidence to support anything except for the statement, “I studied this last year” as if learning is something that has an end state.

What’s the most exciting thing that happened last year in the realm of ASCVD? Did you read the results of the CLEAR outcome trial?

While I can substantiate my opinions with evidence, the truth is that I’m parroting people like Tom Dayspring or Allan Sniderman. Take a moment and familiarize yourself with their work.

 

[Anonymous35]

To be rude an arrogant or to offer unsubstantiated opinions?



Something I had already surmised.



You’re presuming that one should have faith in your opinions and trust your assertions. If your arguments are valid, you shouldn’t have any difficulty supporting them with evidence. This far you have provided no evidence to support anything except for the statement, “I studied this last year” as if learning is something that has an end state.

What’s the most exciting thing that happened last year in the realm of ASCVD? Did you read the results of the CLEAR outcome trial?

While I can substantiate my opinions with evidence, the truth is that I’m parroting people like Tom Dayspring or Allan Sniderman. Take a moment and familiarize yourself with their work.

Evidence ? Everybody with iq at 100 Or more know the consequence of deficit in nutritient

To be rude an arrogant or to offer unsubstantiated opinions?



Something I had already surmised.



You’re presuming that one should have faith in your opinions and trust your assertions. If your arguments are valid, you shouldn’t have any difficulty supporting them with evidence. This far you have provided no evidence to support anything except for the statement, “I studied this last year” as if learning is something that has an end state.

What’s the most exciting thing that happened last year in the realm of ASCVD? Did you read the results of the CLEAR outcome trial?

While I can substantiate my opinions with evidence, the truth is that I’m parroting people like Tom Dayspring or Allan Sniderman. Take a moment and familiarize yourself with their work.

Nope i didn’t know there is recent trial about this
I’m also 23 yo so ASCVD didn’t really concern people my aged

I was mostly concern about my kidney desease recently
And seen some studies about glp 1 and the impact of kidney function
And finerenone with kidney function

But no if there is a new treatment that came recently i’m not aware and i’m ok to learn