Why do blood work?

[Shivathedestroyer]

Ya I disagree. This is an important conversation to have.

The need for blood work and why we do it has been addressed and answered appropriately above. It’s not our job to go back and forth and try to convince you to do your own lab work.

Pigeonhead explained very well above why one should monitor their lab work and health markers.

It’s just part of being a responsible ped user, you can chose to do it or not, but nothing else really needs to be added here as why one should monitor their health.

 

[BrockSamson42]

@Type-IIx

 

[JackHoffman]

Sometimes it’s better to just sit back and let natural selection do its thing.

You don’t have to do blood work, you’re a grown man and can make your own decisions. You’re free to do what you want. Just like you’re free to take up heroin or meth. It’s your health and your life.

But this is a stupid question.

I know thats sort of my point. Heroin, cocaine, meth users and cigarette smokers aren’t obsessed about their bloodwork are they?

 

[readalot]

How to Discover Your Unknown Knowns

By Alon Kiriati ## Known knowns, unknown knowns and unknown unknowns It’s been almost twenty years since Donald Rumsfeld, the then US Secretary of State of Defense, said: "There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to ...

www.freecodecamp.org

a matter of personal preference?....if you have the ability and means why would you not convert a known unknown to a known known. Especially if the information gleaned is actionable.

Then there is that extra nasty extension of **unknown known**...you don't know that it is easily knowable or don't want to know. That one is particularly troublesome.

Ostrich effect - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[accidentaljedi173]

I know thats sort of my point. Heroin, cocaine, meth users and cigarette smokers aren’t obsessed about their bloodwork are they?

Are you saying people on gear are comparable to those types of drug users?

 

[readalot]

Are you saying people on gear are comparable to those types of drug users?

Tobacco would be the closest proxy.

Fun read for you natties...

Cigarette smoking has a positive and independent effect on testosterone levels - PubMed

Previous studies have suggested that testosterone levels are linked to a variety of diseases, such as cardiovascular disease, type-2 diabetes, the metabolic syndrome, erectile dysfunction, depression, stroke and osteoporosis. Since cigarette smoking is a major health problem and highly prevalent...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Ah memories...T NATION was hopping there for a while:

There Are No Safe Methods For Recreational AAS Use

Yes… However there are safe(er) ways to use. What’s riskier? 300mg test/wk or 1000mg test, 700mg tren, 350mg winny and 28 iu GH/wk. I read earlier you spoke of idiot proofing this forum. I disagree with this notion. If we are to cut off uneducated posters and narrow in on the minority...

forums.t-nation.com

Summer Blast and Coming Off 2 Years of Tren

Should be noted meadows had a hereditary clotting disorder. His mother died very young too. From what I recall meadows didn’t have any plaque in his arteries. The myocardial infarction wasn’t his first brush with death. He almost died in his 30’s Heavy steroid use takes a cumulative toll...

forums.t-nation.com

 

[JackHoffman]

Are you saying people on gear are comparable to those types of drug users?

Honestly everyone assumes those drugs are worse for you than steroids or any other kind of drug but it sorta depends on the dosage and route of administration. I mean you could smoke heroin and if your shit was pure it honestly would probably be better than taking oxies or vicodin and still better than smoking tobacco ironically. For one, you’re freebasing that shit so its pretty much not even smoke and if you got a nice clean pipe it wouldn’t really be so bad. And above, you can see they already compared steroids to smoking cigarettes. It's not going to kill you overnight but has more of an impact on long term health. Yeah, overall I think people into “fitness” are going to be more health conscious and of course its better to do bloodwork than not do bloodwork to know what you are doing to yourself but I’m just mostly wondering what happens when something isn’t right with their bloodwork, what do most people do about it? It’s like I’ve heard on Winstrol your bloodwork is going to be fucked. So why are people even taking winstrol then? What is the point? It’s like next time I decide to go on a coke binge I think I’ll just see what damage I’m doing because it’s interesting and makes me feel smart but I love this shit man. This is my last coke binge bro. I swear. See you in narcotics anonymous. Later.

 

[mae_geri]

Other than doing blood work, what do you do if something doesn’t look right anyway? I mean if you are feeling fine and the cycle is only for a few weeks anyway, why are you doing blood work? Are you going to stop taking the steroids in the middle of your cycle? Are you going to lower the dose or try a different steroid? Everyone talks about blood work but I don’t really hear what people do about it. But I haven’t really gotten to the point where I’ve tried different cycles and seen how they affect me on paper or in my own life experience so I haven’t really looked for much of that info. But I just find it funnY because it doesn’t seem like there are many options other than take an AI or stop or reduce the amount of steroids you are taking. Does it just make people feel better to see the numbers looking all pretty or whatever? Because I don’t think this shit is good for you anyway. I mean, you take Superdrol and you do bloodwork and you expect everything to look fine and if it looks fine you actual believe that shit?

On gear bloodwork is a must! Before, during, and after.

There are multiple facts:
- You find your sweet spot dosage without harming your lipids too much (for example)
- If your E2 is to high you know where the sides coming from and can prevent it.
- AST/ALT Liverenzymes are allways high when lifting weight BUT sometimes you need to deload to check if there coming back
- CK (Creatin Kinase) to prevent over-training

--> And many other values to check if you go in the right directions (not only on gear)

Depending on the Values (Kidney, Heart, Liver, Hormones) I elevate also some supplement. For example Fish Oil.

Talk with your coach or doctor.

I do bloodwork 2-3 times during a cycle, once before, and once after PCT.

 

[accidentaljedi173]

Honestly everyone assumes those drugs are worse for you than steroids or any other kind of drug but it sorta depends on the dosage and route of administration. I mean you could smoke heroin and if your shit was pure it honestly would probably be better than taking oxies or vicodin and still better than smoking tobacco ironically. For one, you’re freebasing that shit so its pretty much not even smoke and if you got a nice clean pipe it wouldn’t really be so bad. And above, you can see they already compared steroids to smoking cigarettes. It's not going to kill you overnight but has more of an impact on long term health. Yeah, overall I think people into “fitness” are going to be more health conscious and of course its better to do bloodwork than not do bloodwork to know what you are doing to yourself but I’m just mostly wondering what happens when something isn’t right with their bloodwork, what do most people do about it? It’s like I’ve heard on Winstrol your bloodwork is going to be fucked. So why are people even taking winstrol then? What is the point? It’s like next time I decide to go on a coke binge I think I’ll just see what damage I’m doing because it’s interesting and makes me feel smart but I love this shit man. This is my last coke binge bro. I swear. See you in narcotics anonymous. Later.

My point being is if my health markers are bad I would do something about it. However, I don't see trap houses selling test cyp and anavar or I wouldn't suck a dick for some dbol so I can get my fix in. I think that's the only reason tobacco is the only close comparison because no one lost their family to a cigarette. To be fair the example of the "clean" heroin addict literally doesn't exist. So really to put someone on steroids in the same description is wrong, the simple fact that everyone is fixated on their health markers through blood work proves the exact point. I'm in no way saying there isn't cases of steroid abusers who wouldn't ignore blood work for the sake of gains, but really they are out weighed by logical/casual users who aren't like that.

 

[JeffroCat]

you’re freebasing that shit

At this point in the thread, I believe you might be.

 

[readalot]

It’s like next time I decide to go on a coke binge I think I’ll just see what damage I’m doing

Cardiac mri to look for fibrosis?

Cardiac magnetic resonance in cocaine-induced myocardial damage: cocaine, heart, and magnetic resonance - Heart Failure Reviews

The use of cocaine constitutes a major health problem. Cocaine use is associated with acute and chronic complications that might involve any system, the most common being the cardiovascular system. The precise incidence of cocaine-induced cardiomyopathy remains mysterious and probably...

link.springer.com

Definitely report back. I'd be interested to see what you find.

 

[Type-IIx]

The most important justifications for routine monitoring of laboratory work are:

1. Assessing Risk Tolerance ("push" & "pull" factors that determine how aggressively vs. conservatively you can dose and select AAS)

and,

2. Assessing Dose/Response (a true base-line must be established to measure the delta [degree-of-change] per mg/IU of drug). I have written an article related to establishing a true base-line for assessing dose/response for rhGH (or GH secretagogue)/IGF-I, here: [link]

 

[JackHoffman]

At this point in the thread, I believe you might be.

lol

 

[Ateam2023]

I disagree bloodwork is just as important if not more important than anything else! You have to know what the compounds you're using are effective and not harmful simple as that

 

[JackHoffman]

Alright guys remember me? Your favorite blogger/troll. You guys know how I blasted over a gram of test for months and took HCG the whole time and dabbled with other steroids? Didn’t find anything I liked other than test. Didn’t try tren or anything but did try superdrol, winstrol, equipoise, primobolan, anavar, proviron and HGH…well since you guys care so much about me, I’ll have you know that I quit everything. Felt fine for about a month, felt like shit a little bit so I abused some mild opiates. Now I’m clean off everything again and my test is 250 ng/dL and estrodial is 24. Haven’t taken HCG in weeks. Took it maybe twice after quitting. Last test shot was July 17th and last HCG shot was September 5th. Looks like 3 times since the 17th I took HCG. Just felt like it would help. I didn’t take all that PCT advice like taking shit tons of HCG. Not how it seems like it would work for me. Just take as little as possible and recover. Try that first. Plus I was never shutdown because I took HCG the whole time. But maybe I’m too new of a user to have shut down my test.

Btw, 250 may sound horrible to you guys but the lowest I tested natty was like 330 before and I was around 500 one time and 400 another time so considering everything I did, I think that is pretty good. Plus I’m not even working out right now anymore.

I lost about 30 lbs from fasting and taking kratom and unfortunately fooled around with suboxone which I regret but I’m off it. Definitely not fun. Just thought it might be mild like kratom but its not. It’s a whole other level. Even at small pieces like 25mg its way more gripping on your life. Horrible shit. Not even fun after two weeks. So even with all that bullshit I’m at 250! Fuck ya! Take that steroid forums!

Looks like it was about 7 months of taking test. Started around 250 test but for the last 4 months of use it was a gram of test. My test was in the 2500’s. Took Aromasin as needed just probably 12.5 twice a week or maybe 3 or 4 times sometimes.

I just realized I didn’t want to stick a needle in myself the rest of my life. And I’ve just been focusing on diet. Was doing home workouts for a while, tracking calories and protein and intermittent fasting as well. But now just eating what I feel like eating and intermittent fasting. Still losing weight but pretty close to a plateau with that. Haven’t lost much muscle yet but a ton of strength. Most muscle I lost probably in glutes and legs.

I don’t think it will be worth it for me to use steroids unless I’m all veiny and ripped naturally. Which I don’t think will ever happen tbh. And that’s fine with me. I may choose to use test again just for the feeling and strength and extra edge it gives me. However, I feel like 90% of all that came from the work I was putting into the gym.

Well, I didn’t shut down my production, I tried steroids and now I can get on with my life and see what’s next for me. Thanks for all your support. Really. Even though you guys are fucking assholes sometimes. I appreciate the advice as it probably helped me come to my senses somehow subconsciously. Take care! Good luck with everything!

 

[egruberman]

Alright guys remember me? Your favorite blogger/troll. You guys know how I blasted over a gram of test for months and took HCG the whole time and dabbled with other steroids? Didn’t find anything I liked other than test. Didn’t try tren or anything but did try superdrol, winstrol, equipoise, primobolan, anavar, proviron and HGH…well since you guys care so much about me, I’ll have you know that I quit everything. Felt fine for about a month, felt like shit a little bit so I abused some mild opiates. Now I’m clean off everything again and my test is 250 ng/dL and estrodial is 24. Haven’t taken HCG in weeks. Took it maybe twice after quitting. Last test shot was July 17th and last HCG shot was September 5th. Looks like 3 times since the 17th I took HCG. Just felt like it would help. I didn’t take all that PCT advice like taking shit tons of HCG. Not how it seems like it would work for me. Just take as little as possible and recover. Try that first. Plus I was never shutdown because I took HCG the whole time. But maybe I’m too new of a user to have shut down my test.

Btw, 250 may sound horrible to you guys but the lowest I tested natty was like 330 before and I was around 500 one time and 400 another time so considering everything I did, I think that is pretty good. Plus I’m not even working out right now anymore.

I lost about 30 lbs from fasting and taking kratom and unfortunately fooled around with suboxone which I regret but I’m off it. Definitely not fun. Just thought it might be mild like kratom but its not. It’s a whole other level. Even at small pieces like 25mg its way more gripping on your life. Horrible shit. Not even fun after two weeks. So even with all that bullshit I’m at 250! Fuck ya! Take that steroid forums!

Looks like it was about 7 months of taking test. Started around 250 test but for the last 4 months of use it was a gram of test. My test was in the 2500’s. Took Aromasin as needed just probably 12.5 twice a week or maybe 3 or 4 times sometimes.

I just realized I didn’t want to stick a needle in myself the rest of my life. And I’ve just been focusing on diet. Was doing home workouts for a while, tracking calories and protein and intermittent fasting as well. But now just eating what I feel like eating and intermittent fasting. Still losing weight but pretty close to a plateau with that. Haven’t lost much muscle yet but a ton of strength. Most muscle I lost probably in glutes and legs.

I don’t think it will be worth it for me to use steroids unless I’m all veiny and ripped naturally. Which I don’t think will ever happen tbh. And that’s fine with me. I may choose to use test again just for the feeling and strength and extra edge it gives me. However, I feel like 90% of all that came from the work I was putting into the gym.

Well, I didn’t shut down my production, I tried steroids and now I can get on with my life and see what’s next for me. Thanks for all your support. Really. Even though you guys are fucking assholes sometimes. I appreciate the advice as it probably helped me come to my senses somehow subconsciously. Take care! Good luck with everything!

Two words: "train wreck"

 

[Jin23]

Plus I was never shutdown because I took HCG the whole time. But maybe I’m too new of a user to have shut down my test.

So much of your post is you talking out of your ass. Like this quote for instance. Ofc you were shutdown. When we are talking about being shutdown we are talking about your hypothalamus not releasing gnrh and thus pituitary not releasing LH. But ofc using hcg helps a lot in preventing gonadal function deterioration.

What now? Your test levels are in the gutter. It would be sensible of you to try a serm cycle in order to being your levels up. Where is your LH? Is it at a normal level for you? If it's low, indicating secondary hypogonadism, then using a serm is definitely something you should do.

Otherwise good for you in deciding to get off steroids. Not an easy thing to do for most people here.

 

[JackHoffman]

I guess I could check my LH but from what I understand, if you aren’t producing hormones, you feel like shit and your test is usually in double digits. My test isn’t much different from long before I took steroids or test which is why I took it in the first place. I mean, also has to do with other medications, drugs, and lifestyle changes. When I stopped my antidepressant it went up to 500. I didn’t spend money on the LH this time, just wanted to see test levels. I almost qualify for TRT now. 258 was the exact. I didn’t think to check LH unfortunately. Woulda been good. But anyway, I’m not really worried about it.

 

[JackHoffman]

I’ve heard you can recover fine just taking nothing in some cases. I don’t know. If the pipes aren’t broken why fix it? I’m producing sperm, my balls aren’t shrunk.

 

[Jin23]

I’ve heard you can recover fine just taking nothing in some cases. I don’t know. If the pipes aren’t broken why fix it? I’m producing sperm, my balls aren’t shrunk.

What exactly is your problem son? (spoken in an Irish accent) All this yapping, self delusion, carelessness about your health, etc. Have you been to a psychiatrist? It seems like there might be a personality disorder at the root of your issues ...