Zero PIP Test E recipe

[Photon]

I havent tried it in my method. After dissolving and hot filtering i just concetrate the solution and let it cool down. If i dont see crystals i use layering with WFI,then cold filter with whatman and buchner funnel before i dry. Last time i used a mixture of 50/50 WFI/Ethanol for a final wash after mother liquor went down and i got a better result. Checked this post right now and i was curious if it will be decent to add AC to remove extra color impurities. Whats your take?

You should bleaching clay next time! It actually contains a good ratio of the activated carbon alongside a little bit of extra that will help really strip out the color

It's not really bleach I know the name seems scary but it's literally just clay and activated carbon that's been acid washed


Very very effective over normal activated carbon

I believe it does work.
e,g. @Walter Hype mentioned BVV above, one of their specialties seems to be in purifying oil.

If you see this link for e.g

Color Bleach (Compares to T-41)

BVV Bentonite Clay for Bleaching & Decolorizing Edible Oils is a filtration aid used in refining and increasing the purity and clarity of the final product.

shopbvv.com

Test E linked above


Looks very similar doesn't it? lol

Now they call it "color bleach" but if you see the technical specs, it's just bentonite clay and activated carbon We also know that these compounds, absorb alot of junk, however they also absorb.. API, so you lose some yield.

I'd play close attention to solubility tho, you really want to make sure none of these dissolve in your solvents. Ideally you want to be able to filter them out.

 

[TheProdigyCode]

I believe it does work.
e,g. @Walter Hype mentioned BVV above, one of their specialties seems to be in purifying oil.

If you see this link for e.g

Color Bleach (Compares to T-41)

BVV Bentonite Clay for Bleaching & Decolorizing Edible Oils is a filtration aid used in refining and increasing the purity and clarity of the final product.

shopbvv.com

View attachment 376250

Test E linked above
View attachment 376251

Looks very similar doesn't it? lol

Now they call it "color bleach" but if you see the technical specs, it's just bentonite clay and activated carbon We also know that these compounds, absorb alot of junk, however they also absorb.. API, so you lose some yield.

I'd play close attention to solubility tho, you really want to make sure none of these dissolve in your solvents. Ideally you want to be able to filter them out.

I see the point but I want to have a definitive answer to when is the best time to use it,I'll share my thoughts and when you have some spare time and you want ,you can answer me:

From a mechanistic standpoint, is it generally preferable for the adsorbent to be introduced while the target compound is fully dissolved (hot solution), in order to avoid trapping microcrystals or losing product that could occur if the adsorbent is added once the system becomes supersaturated or partially crystallized?
In hot ethanol specifically, is there a known risk that such adsorbent materials exhibit partial solubility or form colloidal/fine particulate dispersions that may pass through during hot filtration?
If colloidal carryover does occur, could this negatively impact the purity or crystal morphology of the final recrystallized product upon cooling?
At a general level, how is the balance typically approached between improved purity via adsorption and potential yield loss due to non-selective adsorption of the desired compound?
Any theoretical insight or literature-based discussion on the behavior of adsorbents during recrystallization would be greatly appreciated.
I know these questions maybe hard to answer without experimentation but I suppose you have used it some times and you have experience in this subject.
Thanks for your time and sorry for the long text.

 

[Walter Hype]

I see the point but I want to have a definitive answer to when is the best time to use it,I'll share my thoughts and when you have some spare time and you want ,you can answer me:

From a mechanistic standpoint, is it generally preferable for the adsorbent to be introduced while the target compound is fully dissolved (hot solution), in order to avoid trapping microcrystals or losing product that could occur if the adsorbent is added once the system becomes supersaturated or partially crystallized?
In hot ethanol specifically, is there a known risk that such adsorbent materials exhibit partial solubility or form colloidal/fine particulate dispersions that may pass through during hot filtration?
If colloidal carryover does occur, could this negatively impact the purity or crystal morphology of the final recrystallized product upon cooling?
At a general level, how is the balance typically approached between improved purity via adsorption and potential yield loss due to non-selective adsorption of the desired compound?
Any theoretical insight or literature-based discussion on the behavior of adsorbents during recrystallization would be greatly appreciated.
I know these questions maybe hard to answer without experimentation but I suppose you have used it some times and you have experience in this subject.
Thanks for your time and sorry for the long text.

correct you must have your api FULLY in a solvent this increases surface area and helps the clay or carbon find its friend better so to speak. carbon and acid washed clay have VAST VAST VAST amounts of surface are in each tiny speck. your api being dissolved gives it the best chance for the impurities to latch on and NOT into the carbon. assuming your impurities have LESS solubility in solvent compared to api the term is "Van der Waals force - Wikipedia"

thats basically how carbon and clay work. they dont have any chemical reaction its like the surface are of the carbon attract the things you dont want because they have the perfect little places for them to be attracted to

its like ...carbon is the magnet lol but hormone api are LEAST attracted compared to color bodies and congealed double bonds and with a bit of heat and good solvent this will have a nice cleaning effect for color and impurites.

now granted when you use ACID wash clay and carbon you must be mindful this will mess with the PH of your hormone and if your hormone has ANY moisture int it you will drive a reaction towards MORE degraded raws. keep your solvent dry your heat contact short and if you can do it keep your beaker covered fully and maybe even spray some argon gas in there to displace oxygen so you can keep degradation at bay|

also i would consider this a pre step before proper recrystallization this will lighten your raws or material but some impurities are still present and those get removed best with 2nd step

 

[TheProdigyCode]

correct you must have your api FULLY in a solvent this increases surface area and helps the clay or carbon find its friend better so to speak. carbon and acid washed clay have VAST VAST VAST amounts of surface are in each tiny speck. your api being dissolved gives it the best chance for the impurities to latch on and NOT into the carbon. assuming your impurities have LESS solubility in solvent compared to api the term is "Van der Waals force - Wikipedia"

thats basically how carbon and clay work. they dont have any chemical reaction its like the surface are of the carbon attract the things you dont want because they have the perfect little places for them to be attracted to

its like ...carbon is the magnet lol but hormone api are LEAST attracted compared to color bodies and congealed double bonds and with a bit of heat and good solvent this will have a nice cleaning effect for color and impurites.

now granted when you use ACID wash clay and carbon you must be mindful this will mess with the PH of your hormone and if your hormone has ANY moisture int it you will drive a reaction towards MORE degraded raws. keep your solvent dry your heat contact short and if you can do it keep your beaker covered fully and maybe even spray some argon gas in there to displace oxygen so you can keep degradation at bay|

also i would consider this a pre step before proper recrystallization this will lighten your raws or material but some impurities are still present and those get removed best with 2nd step

correct you must have your api FULLY in a solvent this increases surface area and helps the clay or carbon find its friend better so to speak. carbon and acid washed clay have VAST VAST VAST amounts of surface are in each tiny speck. your api being dissolved gives it the best chance for the impurities to latch on and NOT into the carbon. assuming your impurities have LESS solubility in solvent compared to api the term is "Van der Waals force - Wikipedia"

thats basically how carbon and clay work. they dont have any chemical reaction its like the surface are of the carbon attract the things you dont want because they have the perfect little places for them to be attracted to

its like ...carbon is the magnet lol but hormone api are LEAST attracted compared to color bodies and congealed double bonds and with a bit of heat and good solvent this will have a nice cleaning effect for color and impurites.

now granted when you use ACID wash clay and carbon you must be mindful this will mess with the PH of your hormone and if your hormone has ANY moisture int it you will drive a reaction towards MORE degraded raws. keep your solvent dry your heat contact short and if you can do it keep your beaker covered fully and maybe even spray some argon gas in there to displace oxygen so you can keep degradation at bay|

also i would consider this a pre step before proper recrystallization this will lighten your raws or material but some impurities are still present and those get removed best with 2nd step

Really solid explanation overall,especially the way you described adsorption and why carbon or clay works through surface interactions rather than any true chemical reaction. I agree that as a pre-cleaning or polishing step, it can be very effective when dealing with colored or heavily degraded material.That said, based on what you’re describing, it seems to me that if activated carbon is truly required, then the starting material must already be in fairly rough shape. In cases where the raws are reasonably clean(like 93%+ purity, without color degradation), I would expect that simple dissolution in an appropriate solvent, hot filtration, followed by recrystallization and cold filtration to remove the mother liquor, should usually be sufficient and also a gentler approach overall. I’d be interested to know how you see that distinction. Also my approach to give a final rinse with 50/50 Ethanol/WFI when mother liquor has drained as a final step to further clean the crystal's surface sounds good?