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Brutus79 And Johnnyballz Cycle Log

brutus79 said:
I was going to do shoulders yesterday and didn't. My shoulders are really bothering me and I am toying with the idea of cortisone shots, but I think the best thing to do is what I'm doing... skip shoulder day for a few weeks and listen to my body.

Figured this log is for saying what I don't do as much as it is about what I do.

I have always had this attitude when I am on cycle that I am superman- train, train, train- no pain no gain, negative reps, fail sets, no rest days. Guess what? I always end up injured. Always. So whats the fucking point? I'm 35 and I want another 20 years of moving heavy weights so treating every cycle and workout like it could be my last has a serious effect on my longevity.

I saw a jay cutler interview where he said he never did a negative rep in his life and only failed when he didn't mean to. He attributes that to his injury free success, so why should I make my quest for Olympia any harder?
Click to expand...

Is the culprit of your shoulder pain heavy compound shoulder exercises?

If so you can drop them for a while and take a completely different approach to your shoulder development. Shoulder pressing seems to be what messes up a lot of guys RC's and other junctions, my suggestion would be to try making side delts the focus of your shoulder training and use lateral raises and a few variations. Side lateral raises are actually really effective when you progressive overload them / get stronger, they are very safe IME even with fairly heavy poundage's. A lot of guys would tell you to stick to a lighter weight but I find them more effective when you are getting stronger in them.

If you were to drop heavy shoulder pressing movements and do more direct side delt work in its place you probably wouldn't even take a noticeable hit physique wise, your front delts are already getting hit plenty when you do flat bench, and most guys have overdeveloped front delts anyway and have imbalances because of overdeveloped front delt and chest.

Dropping shoulder pressing might have some athletic disadvantages, but unless you are a strength athlete I wouldn't consider it too much of a negative. It might slow down the rate of progress on your flat bench but honestly this can be solved by simply doing more flat bench.

I would also add in some direct rear delt work into your routine, it is a very useful but often neglected movement that does a very good job of maintaining rotator health when used regularly.

You have the right attitude though when it comes to injury prevention, if something is causing you discomfort or pain then don't do it. The size and features of your tendons, ligaments etc. all effect the range of motion of your joints so its very possible for some lifts and movements to be more trouble than they are worth.

Sorry for the long ass post haha, I don't want to flood the log with a bunch of boring shit but I'm enjoying the training aspect of this log so obviously I'm interested in your guys' development / progress.
 
weighted chinup said:
Is the culprit of your shoulder pain heavy compound shoulder exercises?

If so you can drop them for a while and take a completely different approach to your shoulder development. Shoulder pressing seems to be what messes up a lot of guys RC's and other junctions, my suggestion would be to try making side delts the focus of your shoulder training and use lateral raises and a few variations. Side lateral raises are actually really effective when you progressive overload them / get stronger, they are very safe IME even with fairly heavy poundage's. A lot of guys would tell you to stick to a lighter weight but I find them more effective when you are getting stronger in them.

If you were to drop heavy shoulder pressing movements and do more direct side delt work in its place you probably wouldn't even take a noticeable hit physique wise, your front delts are already getting hit plenty when you do flat bench, and most guys have overdeveloped front delts anyway and have imbalances because of overdeveloped front delt and chest.

Dropping shoulder pressing might have some athletic disadvantages, but unless you are a strength athlete I wouldn't consider it too much of a negative. It might slow down the rate of progress on your flat bench but honestly this can be solved by simply doing more flat bench.

I would also add in some direct rear delt work into your routine, it is a very useful but often neglected movement that does a very good job of maintaining rotator health when used regularly.

You have the right attitude though when it comes to injury prevention, if something is causing you discomfort or pain then don't do it. The size and features of your tendons, ligaments etc. all effect the range of motion of your joints so its very possible for some lifts and movements to be more trouble than they are worth.

Sorry for the long ass post haha, I don't want to flood the log with a bunch of boring shit but I'm enjoying the training aspect of this log so obviously I'm interested in your guys' development / progress.
Click to expand...
The injury was originally from doing raises waaaaay too heavy and too high a couple years ago and consequently prevented me from doing anything heavy shoulder wise for 8 months. I ran a six month growth cycle (4 months strong ass hyges, 2 months seros) and when I started shoulder I was at 100%.

Barbell standing shoulder presses were my go to shoulder work... db's caused a ghost of pain with presses and raises so I usually stayed real light or away from them completely. I went from having a painful time shoulder pressing 40's to easily pressing 175 for sets of ten.

I fucking hurt it about a month ago doing a fucking pull up. I bought a pull up bar and was holding it leaning forward stretching my shoulders and basically hanging totally relaxed amd engaged into a wide grip pull up from a totally wrong position. Now it hurts doing bench and really fucking hurts doing military press.

It is not the same shoulder and it is not the same injury... before my arm hurt halfway down on the outside where my tricep met my delt. The doctor said it was rotator cuff with pain displaced to that area... now it hurts in the front delt right in my rotator cuff... I can squeeze my shoulder blades together for no bench pain but nothing I do helps military press.

Raises are still best in this situation?
 
I had a front delt problem during the beginning of my current cycle (although it was minor), I did lateral raises, and front raises, then DB front raises/pull ups, then switched to cable work. Had to keep an eye on them during incline bench (essentially pinching the arms as close to my torso as possible and locking the back) to keep the pressure off them. Did it for 2 weeks and I was able to return to my regular lifts with no problems.

I also during that period spent extra time on the foam roller, making sure to get all three heads of the delt before and after exercise for about 3-5 minutes each session. I also used one of those huge "yoga" balls (I have no idea what they are called) before working out, to stretch out the delts. Essentially you sit on your haunches with the ball in front of you, placing both arms with the sides of your palms on the ball and moving the ball forwards and backwards. Then switching to one hand and repeating the forward and backward movement, while also going side to side when the ball was pushed as far forward as the stretch would allow.
 
brutus79 said:
The injury was originally from doing raises waaaaay too heavy and too high a couple years ago and consequently prevented me from doing anything heavy shoulder wise for 8 months. I ran a six month growth cycle (4 months strong ass hyges, 2 months seros) and when I started shoulder I was at 100%.

Barbell standing shoulder presses were my go to shoulder work... db's caused a ghost of pain with presses and raises so I usually stayed real light or away from them completely. I went from having a painful time shoulder pressing 40's to easily pressing 175 for sets of ten.

I fucking hurt it about a month ago doing a fucking pull up. I bought a pull up bar and was holding it leaning forward stretching my shoulders and basically hanging totally relaxed amd engaged into a wide grip pull up from a totally wrong position. Now it hurts doing bench and really fucking hurts doing military press.

It is not the same shoulder and it is not the same injury... before my arm hurt halfway down on the outside where my tricep met my delt. The doctor said it was rotator cuff with pain displaced to that area... now it hurts in the front delt right in my rotator cuff... I can squeeze my shoulder blades together for no bench pain but nothing I do helps military press.

Raises are still best in this situation?
Click to expand...

Oh damn, I didn't realize raises were what originally caused your injury. That's my fault for making assumptions though, its usually a pressing movement that causes these things.

Rest / time off from exercises that cause the pain to come back is the only real suggestion I have, if lateral raises cause you pain / discomfort from the original injury then I would say they are not ideal in this situation, but if they feel fine whereas shoulder press feels painful then I would say they are a viable option to maintain or improve your shoulder development until you are able to do heavy pressing again.

It might be wise to just completely lay off direct shoulder work until things get better like you had originally planned, wait a little bit and then re-asses. Your front delts and rotators are probably taking a pretty good pounding from the benching alone. Sorry, its not the most decisive answer I know but it really could go either way, you might be fine by doing raises only but on the other hand taking a bit of time off from direct shoulder work might be the ideal solution if you want to get back on track quicker and allow injury to heal and prevent old injury from resurfacing.

Preemptive measures to make sure your rotators and shoulders are healthy and in top shape is probably the best thing you can do while you wait for the pain to subside and things to get back to normal. Making sure your pushing exercises aren't too much higher than your pulling exercises volume wise is important and probably what fucks a lot of guys up in the long run. Adding rear delt flys will also maintain / improve rotator health.
 
weighted chinup said:
Oh damn, I didn't realize raises were what originally caused your injury. That's my fault for making assumptions though, its usually a pressing movement that causes these things.

Rest / time off from exercises that cause the pain to come back is the only real suggestion I have, if lateral raises cause you pain / discomfort from the original injury then I would say they are not ideal in this situation, but if they feel fine whereas shoulder press feels painful then I would say they are a viable option to maintain or improve your shoulder development until you are able to do heavy pressing again.

It might be wise to just completely lay off direct shoulder work until things get better like you had originally planned, wait a little bit and then re-asses. Your front delts and rotators are probably taking a pretty good pounding from the benching alone. Sorry, its not the most decisive answer I know but it really could go either way, you might be fine by doing raises only but on the other hand taking a bit of time off from direct shoulder work might be the ideal solution if you want to get back on track quicker and allow injury to heal and prevent old injury from resurfacing.

Preemptive measures to make sure your rotators and shoulders are healthy and in top shape is probably the best thing you can do while you wait for the pain to subside and things to get back to normal. Making sure your pushing exercises aren't too much higher than your pulling exercises volume wise is important and probably what fucks a lot of guys up in the long run. Adding rear delt flys will also maintain / improve rotator health.
Click to expand...
Excellent. I love rear delt flys. Thanks a lot wc!
 
weighted chinup said:
Oh damn, I didn't realize raises were what originally caused your injury. That's my fault for making assumptions though, its usually a pressing movement that causes these things.

Rest / time off from exercises that cause the pain to come back is the only real suggestion I have, if lateral raises cause you pain / discomfort from the original injury then I would say they are not ideal in this situation, but if they feel fine whereas shoulder press feels painful then I would say they are a viable option to maintain or improve your shoulder development until you are able to do heavy pressing again.

It might be wise to just completely lay off direct shoulder work until things get better like you had originally planned, wait a little bit and then re-asses. Your front delts and rotators are probably taking a pretty good pounding from the benching alone. Sorry, its not the most decisive answer I know but it really could go either way, you might be fine by doing raises only but on the other hand taking a bit of time off from direct shoulder work might be the ideal solution if you want to get back on track quicker and allow injury to heal and prevent old injury from resurfacing.

Preemptive measures to make sure your rotators and shoulders are healthy and in top shape is probably the best thing you can do while you wait for the pain to subside and things to get back to normal. Making sure your pushing exercises aren't too much higher than your pulling exercises volume wise is important and probably what fucks a lot of guys up in the long run. Adding rear delt flys will also maintain / improve rotator health.
Click to expand...
I concur, except that I would add during your off time (not doing shoulder work) that you stretch them several times a week, add in some light resistance (bands) while at home, and make sure to foam roll. During the later years of my boxing career, when I was introduced to stability ball work and foam rolling, it really allowed me to push a lot harder, as my natural recovery time was greatly enhanced. Any time I ever had sports therapy, stretching and foam rolling was a staple for faster recovery (massages, and electrical stimulation also helped, but those tend to get pricey).
 
I forgot about finishing yesterdays workout with cable fly drop sets. 5 x 10 with the other guy dropping weight every set @johnnyBALLZ ? Or four sets. Totally forgot.
 
brutus79 said:
Tonight? What is tonight you ask? 10 x 10 deads and 10 x 10 squats. Nobody leaves the dungeon without performing 100 squats and 100 deadlifts. You hear me @johnnyBALLZ ?
Click to expand...

I think that would be a re-occuring nightmare due to PTSD. I do not envy you two tonight. In fact I'll say a little prayer that you both can leave the gym under your own power.
 
jymis said:
I think that would be a re-occuring nightmare due to PTSD. I do not envy you two tonight. In fact I'll say a little prayer that you both can leave the gym under your own power.
Click to expand...
The silver lining is that its my house... and there is a couch in the gym...
 
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