Cervical Spine Surgery

[SmallsMalone]

So after a recent car accident I noticed that the numbness I usually experience in my hands at night was now occurring during the day, especially when lifting weights. It was also accompanied by pain in the back of my skull and traps. After doing some reflex tests that ended poorly I was sent to a spinal institute. They did EMG testing (holy fuck that did not feel good at all) and nerve conduction testing, as well as an MRI. Long story short, my spine is fucked. For being 35, I have advanced degenerative disc disease, 6 herniated discs (lumbar and cervical), and very advanced Cervical Spinal Stenosis (a narrowing of the spinal canal where the spinal cord starts to come into contact with the vertebrae).

They've given me on cervical epidural shot, which was great but wore off after 4 days. I have another one on Tuesday. After that, they are talking surgery to repair the stenosis. Has anyone had this, or something like this done to them? How did it affect you ability to lift? Are there things you can't do?

Since I will be out of the gym for a minimum of 8 weeks, are there any compounds that I can take that will help me NOT lose muscle mass and gain a bunch of fat? I know that I will lose some muscle and gain some fat, but is there anything I can use to help mitigate how bad that becomes?

Thanks guys!

 

[tileguy123]

Well the good news is cervical fusion rates of success is much higher than lower lumbar surgery .
I'm familiar with low back but because of the nature of it am also familiar with DDD and stenosis . Make sure your absolutely happy with ur surgeon before committing to it -
I have no recommendations as to the supps

 

[tileguy123]

Payton manning is cervical fused same with tiger woods . The outcome is good usually for stenosis and fusion rates . My estimation is that it won't effect ur lifts too much once healed . Now all those other disc problems in ur thoriatic and low lumbar may affect u at some point

 

[SmallsMalone]

Payton manning is cervical fused same with tiger woods . The outcome is good usually for stenosis and fusion rates . My estimation is that it won't effect ur lifts too much once healed . Now all those other disc problems in ur thoriatic and low lumbar may affect u at some point

If those guys can still play, then I am sure I won't lose too much range of motion. They haven't yet told me to what degree the stenosis is, but they are moving aggressively fast with the procedures. That makes me think its on this side of bad. The epidural made some difference, but not a lot, and it's wearing off after only 4 days.

You know what freaks me out the most is that they go in from the FRONT of the neck to get to the spine so they can remove the vertebrae and disks (they want to do a corpectomy). On tuesday I am scheduled to have the second Epidural, but I am going to try and get some details out of the surgeon about the degree of badness. He's supposed to be the best in FL, with a stack of awards for innovations, inventions and techniques. He also works on most of the people in my office, and my office is known world wide for being nothing but geniuses (I know, how the hell did I get hired there? They must be desperate for scientists LOL). I trust their intellect, and they recommended him. We shall see.

 

[tileguy123]

The shot being it worked is great to indicate that the space they injected is indeed the "pain generator " . Even if it wore off .. Still good indication that u got some relief intially .
Will they use bmp ( bone morphogenic proteins ) to bond it all together ? This is important question as well

 

[SmallsMalone]

is BMP the fusion method they use to fuse the bones together as opposed to the rods/screws ?

 

[tileguy123]

is BMP the fusion method they use to fuse the bones together as opposed to the rods/screws ?

smalls from what i know in general, if there going to employ hardware, and use rods n titanium screws, there going to fixate one or more levels together. that is the definition of fusion essentially. So with fusion, the try to mend those levels together , to creat a solid bond. Bone remodels itself, and is always in a constant state of layering. So for instance, they go in there, remove some bone (usually called a lamectomy , forgive my lack of spelling knowledge) , to access your disc spaces. they clean the disc space up, or in some case remove disc completly, and re insert a carbon fiber riser, or artificial disc. IF just some disc is protruding , they will shave it (discectomy) . The point is opening up the space, so the nerves can expand if they have been decompressed. Or taking the disc out of the space its impinging on if its headed towards your spinal canal. Once this is done, then they mount the hardware to support the Boney structures while they ''mend'', fuse or ''bond''. More often than not , they will Take the Lamectomy bone they recieved from taking some out of you, grind it up into a paste and apply it around the fusion are, hardware , the whole segment from what i understand. This paste helps it form one solid unit.
If they cant get enough bone from the lamectomy, they will do either a Hip Graft, cant remember the name , i think autograph they call it, or take bone from your illiac crest in your hip. heard both are seperate incicions, scars and pain to deal with. The other option is they take Cow Bone, and use that. All the bone pastes can be extremely inhanced, by the use of RH-BMP 2 and RH-BMP 7

Bone Morphogenic Protiens. there expensive, but insurance is picking it up. Fusion rates are significanlty increased with the ''on label '' useage of these products. there has been surgeons using it off label , or not as intended, and then it gets murkey.

anyways hope this helps. Im not doc, so take my knowledge with a grain of salt. just another ortho patient myself

 

[SmallsMalone]

smalls from what i know in general, if there going to employ hardware, and use rods n titanium screws, there going to fixate one or more levels together. that is the definition of fusion essentially. So with fusion, the try to mend those levels together , to creat a solid bond. Bone remodels itself, and is always in a constant state of layering. So for instance, they go in there, remove some bone (usually called a lamectomy , forgive my lack of spelling knowledge) , to access your disc spaces. they clean the disc space up, or in some case remove disc completly, and re insert a carbon fiber riser, or artificial disc. IF just some disc is protruding , they will shave it (discectomy) . The point is opening up the space, so the nerves can expand if they have been decompressed. Or taking the disc out of the space its impinging on if its headed towards your spinal canal. Once this is done, then they mount the hardware to support the Boney structures while they ''mend'', fuse or ''bond''. More often than not , they will Take the Lamectomy bone they recieved from taking some out of you, grind it up into a paste and apply it around the fusion are, hardware , the whole segment from what i understand. This paste helps it form one solid unit.
If they cant get enough bone from the lamectomy, they will do either a Hip Graft, cant remember the name , i think autograph they call it, or take bone from your illiac crest in your hip. heard both are seperate incicions, scars and pain to deal with. The other option is they take Cow Bone, and use that. All the bone pastes can be extremely inhanced, by the use of RH-BMP 2 and RH-BMP 7

Bone Morphogenic Protiens. there expensive, but insurance is picking it up. Fusion rates are significanlty increased with the ''on label '' useage of these products. there has been surgeons using it off label , or not as intended, and then it gets murkey.

anyways hope this helps. Im not doc, so take my knowledge with a grain of salt. just another ortho patient myself

Whoa thanks for the info bro
He told me I had cervical spinal canal stenosis ( I will find out to which degree I have it on tuesday). He told me that there is very little space between my cord and the vertebrae canal, so something would need to be done.

What he told me they were considering, because of the level of stenosis, was either a corpectomy or complete lamectomy. The corpectomy is where they straight up remove the entire vertebra and both top/bottom disks- and replace it with a segment of the same size from my shin bone or a cadaver, then fuse all of that together with the adjacent vertebrae. The other option, they said, is they remove the top of the affected vertebrae (where the spinal process is), the disks on the top/bottom, fuse the sides of the three vertebrae together. Oddly, they leave the canal wide open, with only muscle to cover it. This sounds scary as fuck to me, as there would not be any bone to protect the cord in that spot anymore. If they do the corpectomy, I would prefer a cadaver bone, rather then taking from my shin - which he said would make me a bit shorter).

Either way it sucks. But its better than not having any feeling in my hands and dropping dumbbells on my face.

 

[tileguy123]

Whoa thanks for the info bro
He told me I had cervical spinal canal stenosis ( I will find out to which degree I have it on tuesday). He told me that there is very little space between my cord and the vertebrae canal, so something would need to be done.

What he told me they were considering, because of the level of stenosis, was either a corpectomy or complete lamectomy. The corpectomy is where they straight up remove the entire vertebra and both top/bottom disks- and replace it with a segment of the same size from my shin bone or a cadaver, then fuse all of that together with the adjacent vertebrae. The other option, they said, is they remove the top of the affected vertebrae (where the spinal process is), the disks on the top/bottom, fuse the sides of the three vertebrae together. Oddly, they leave the canal wide open, with only muscle to cover it. This sounds scary as fuck to me, as there would not be any bone to protect the cord in that spot anymore. If they do the corpectomy, I would prefer a cadaver bone, rather then taking from my shin - which he said would make me a bit shorter).

Either way it sucks. But its better than not having any feeling in my hands and dropping dumbbells on my face.

Fuck me son! yeah it wont be as bad as it sounds wen we recant what will go down!!! Def skip the graft from your Shin fuck that! man o man medical science is a wonder. in the 1800s are only cure was booze

 

[SmallsMalone]

Sometimes I feel like we haven't progressed much passed the booze LOL

You know, if I get the cadaver bone, then I can say I'm part zombie

I just can't wait to get back into the gym. Without the hands going numb, I may be able to finally get past my plateaus on bench pressing, curling, shoulder presses, etc. What pisses me off is the waiting and waiting and waiting. I want to just get it over with already LOL

 

[hotdog23]

Sometimes I feel like we haven't progressed much passed the booze LOL

You know, if I get the cadaver bone, then I can say I'm part zombie

I just can't wait to get back into the gym. Without the hands going numb, I may be able to finally get past my plateaus on bench pressing, curling, shoulder presses, etc. What pisses me off is the waiting and waiting and waiting. I want to just get it over with already LOL

I think Tile G has given some great info, most from personal experience.

If it's affecting your quality of life get the surgery bro. Any EXTRA. Anabolic for your 8 weeks of recovery will preserve your tissue. And you'll grow like a weed when u start lifting again cuz you will be completely deconditioned. Idk 500mg/test /week or 20mg/dbol ED (split dose) should keep your muscle intact IMO

 

[SmallsMalone]

I'm trying to get ahold of Dbol - it's like trying to find a unicorn shitting rainbows LOL But the test I have in hand so I should be OK.