Cut fat while keeping muscle

[Drogan]

Carbs should be at least 30% of your calories, you can go lower in a later phase but with refeeding every 2-3 days, Doesn't matter if you take them before workout or before bed, they go to your muscles. No need for more than 1g protein per lb.
And have some omega3, or a lot of it.

You are loosing weight too fast, and at least half is muscle. Aim for 1-2 lb per week
Eat the calories just slightly below the maintenance.

The workout:
You should be stimulating muscle growth, that way muscles won't be burned, but the fat will. Each body part should be trained 2-3 times a week, with progressive weights, keeping the volume low to prevent overtraining, and burning extra calories with cardio (preferably HIIT) twice a week.

If you do this you will lose fat and you will keep or gain the muscle.

 

[Gojiraz]

Carbs should be at least 30% of your calories, you can go lower in a later phase but with refeeding every 2-3 days, Doesn't matter if you take them before workout or before bed, they go to your muscles.

I'm sorry but that is simply just not true. For optimal glycogen uptake you will need to have an adequate carbohydrate sized meal relative to the exercise intensity SHORTLY AFTER the workout.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3577439/
"Studies show a supercompensation of glycogen stores when carbohydrate is consumed immediately post-exercise, and delaying consumption by just 2 hours attenuates the rate of muscle glycogen re-synthesis by as much as 50% [21]. Exercise enhances insulin-stimulated glucose uptake following a workout with a strong correlation noted between the amount of uptake and the magnitude of glycogen utilization [22]. This is in part due to an increase in the translocation of GLUT4 during glycogen depletion [23,24] thereby facilitating entry of glucose into the cell."

 

[Docd187123]

I'm sorry but that is simply just not true. For optimal glycogen uptake you will need to have an adequate carbohydrate sized meal relative to the exercise intensity SHORTLY AFTER the workout.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3577439/
"Studies show a supercompensation of glycogen stores when carbohydrate is consumed immediately post-exercise, and delaying consumption by just 2 hours attenuates the rate of muscle glycogen re-synthesis by as much as 50% [21]. Exercise enhances insulin-stimulated glucose uptake following a workout with a strong correlation noted between the amount of uptake and the magnitude of glycogen utilization [22]. This is in part due to an increase in the translocation of GLUT4 during glycogen depletion [23,24] thereby facilitating entry of glucose into the cell."

This is also untrue. Having carbs shortly after your workout just speed up the glycogen re-uptake process but if you're not competing in multiple endurance or glycogen draining events in the same day the rate of uptake doesn't matter much since by the next day you'll be replenished provided you ate enough carbs

 

[Gojiraz]

This is also untrue. Having carbs shortly after your workout just speed up the glycogen re-uptake process but if you're not competing in multiple endurance or glycogen draining events in the same day the rate of uptake doesn't matter much since by the next day you'll be replenished provided you ate enough carbs

And such is stated in the review; that replenishment can be accomplished if the body part is not trained again for 24+ hours and adequate carb. is taken. Though, here is where I diverge from the review (not that I think this idea is wrong, but I think it can be taken further); it is important to realize that if an individual is cutting and reducing carb. intake, the significance of timing becomes more important for the following reason: glucose uptake into the muscle cell is elevated to "abnormal" levels post-exercise due to enhanced GLUT4/glycogen synthase. What does this mean? This means you're capable of obtaining a higher "limit" of glycogen stores than what would be normal.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11007576

The key word I used is "optimal" and I don't hold any ideas tightly and I think it is definitely up to debate; I'd just recommend trying it out. I've tried having flat carb. intake vs. higher % carb. intake before/after working out and the difference is significant in my case.

 

[Docd187123]

And such is stated in the review; that replenishment can be accomplished if the body part is not trained again for 24+ hours and adequate carb. is taken. Though, here is where I diverge from the review (not that I think this idea is wrong, but I think it can be taken further); it is important to realize that if an individual is cutting and reducing carb. intake, the significance of timing becomes more important for the following reason: glucose uptake into the muscle cell is elevated to "abnormal" levels post-exercise due to enhanced GLUT4/glycogen synthase. What does this mean? This means you're capable of obtaining a higher "limit" of glycogen stores than what would be normal.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11007576

The key word I used is "optimal" and I don't hold any ideas tightly and I think it is definitely up to debate; I'd just recommend trying it out. I've tried having flat carb. intake vs. higher % carb. intake before/after working out and the difference is significant in my case.

This might go back to individual variability as glycogen depletion can be beneficial to some for get loss as in the case of ketogenic diets. Interesting ideas though to say the least Gojiraz

Being a powerlifter though I personally don't cut much unless it's to make weight for competition. And I already eat a massive amount of carbs as I tend to find my workouts are better with higher carbs than fats. Mmmmmmm carbs.... Lol

 

[Gojiraz]

This might go back to individual variability as glycogen depletion can be beneficial to some for get loss as in the case of ketogenic diets. Interesting ideas though to say the least Gojiraz

Being a powerlifter though I personally don't cut much unless it's to make weight for competition. And I already eat a massive amount of carbs as I tend to find my workouts are better with higher carbs than fats. Mmmmmmm carbs.... Lol

I feel you there, I'd never give up those tasty carbs even if it mean't I could be as shredded as Alberto Nunez.

 

[jaydee]

Thanks for all of your input..

To answer a few questions I'm in my mid 30's. My free testosteron is low but test replacement and anti estrogens didn't work. Please I don't want to turn this thread into a TRT thread, I know what I'm doing with TRT and so do my docs and it just didn't work.

My theory is that I am harbouring too much body fat for my metabolism "type" and this is stopping TRT from working dead in it's tracks. It seems I am secondary hypo so my nuts are fine. I hadn't realized just how high my body fat percentage is being at 25%.

So I figure if I can get to about 12% body fat this may tilt my test to E ratio and my HPTA might start working as it should again. It's worth a try and losing the visceral stomach fat is something I need to do anyway.

As far as my nutrition goes I am having about 30g of glucose during workout and 30g after it with protein isolate, BCAA's and Glutamine.

So this is where I'm at.

The weight loss stopped pretty much the day after the post when I said I was losing about a pound a day. It has flatlined ever since.

I do think I'm losing fat though as I've lost about a solid 1cm off my waist and went from 90cm to 89cm.

I have also lost strength and size in my upper body but am gaining strength and size in my legs mainly due to squatting. Can anyone tell me how I can lose in one area of the body, but gain in the other?

I've added HIIT for 20min once a week as a start.

 

[Drogan]

I'm sorry but that is simply just not true. For optimal glycogen uptake you will need to have an adequate carbohydrate sized meal relative to the exercise intensity SHORTLY AFTER the workout.

Optimal glycogen intake for what? You don't have to have any carbs after the workout and still can keep the muscle, although I would rather have them.
My statement is true in its context and I never advised against post-workout carbs. All I said is you shouldn't have fear of carbs before bed or expect that carbing up before workout will have any effect on your workout (and he's not doing long endurance workouts, at least he shouldn't). I doubt he would see any big difference even if he completely threw out the post-workout carbs, as he could benefit from both ways if his goal is fat burning. Also, in real world things tend to be less dramatic than in the studies, and can't be isolated from the rest of your diet.

 

[Drogan]

Thanks for all of your input..

To answer a few questions I'm in my mid 30's. My free testosteron is low but test replacement and anti estrogens didn't work. Please I don't want to turn this thread into a TRT thread, I know what I'm doing with TRT and so do my docs and it just didn't work.

My theory is that I am harbouring too much body fat for my metabolism "type" and this is stopping TRT from working dead in it's tracks. It seems I am secondary hypo so my nuts are fine. I hadn't realized just how high my body fat percentage is being at 25%.

So I figure if I can get to about 12% body fat this may tilt my test to E ratio and my HPTA might start working as it should again. It's worth a try and losing the visceral stomach fat is something I need to do anyway.

As far as my nutrition goes I am having about 30g of glucose during workout and 30g after it with protein isolate, BCAA's and Glutamine.

So this is where I'm at.

The weight loss stopped pretty much the day after the post when I said I was losing about a pound a day. It has flatlined ever since.

I do think I'm losing fat though as I've lost about a solid 1cm off my waist and went from 90cm to 89cm.

I have also lost strength and size in my upper body but am gaining strength and size in my legs mainly due to squatting. Can anyone tell me how I can lose in one area of the body, but gain in the other?

I've added HIIT for 20min once a week as a start.

If measurements are consistent throughout the day every day, and you make no progress, then you should start lowering your calories.
You're wasting time and money with Glutamine and BCAAs.
HIIT is very hard, you may wanna start with 10 mins if you haven't been doing it till now. 20 mins should be impossible in the begining.
Your legs might have been undertrained before compared to the upper part so they still respond well to training. Maybe you're low on glycogen or overtraining your upper body. In which area would you wanna lose? I hope you don't wanna loose quads.

 

[jaydee]

Yes you've confirmed my thoughts, I think I am overtraining upper body. Mainly by having triceps and chest on different days. I will put them together to give more time to recover. I think it's actually my arms that are not recovering. However I don't get sore the next day either.

I agree BCAA's may be a waste of money but I don't agree that Glutamine is.

 

[Docd187123]

Yes you've confirmed my thoughts, I think I am overtraining upper body. Mainly by having triceps and chest on different days. I will put them together to give more time to recover. I think it's actually my arms that are not recovering. However I don't get sore the next day either.

I agree BCAA's may be a waste of money but I don't agree that Glutamine is.

Glutamine is a waste of money. You already get plenty of it if you eat enough protein.

 

[jaydee]

The first HIIT session was KILLER. I can barely walk for two days... lol.

I can literally feel myself burning fat just sitting here on the couch.

 

[jaydee]

Hmm first ive hear glutamine is a waste of money. I always thought it was good for recovery but also good to get some extra fluid in your muscles.

 

[Docd187123]

Hmm first ive hear glutamine is a waste of money. I always thought it was good for recovery but also good to get some extra fluid in your muscles.

Here's a good read for you

http://examine.com/supplements/Glutamine/

 

[Gojiraz]

Optimal glycogen intake for what?...

I don't believe you continued to read my entire posts. I am supporting what I have personally benefited from "in the real world", with scientific evidence. I don't see what is wrong with extending the information to express the optimal utilization. I do plenty of things I know aren't optimal, but it's just that, I know they aren't optimal. So what's wrong with learning how to optimize all the tools an individual has at hand and then choosing what works best/conveniently for the individual.

 

[manafest]

To cut fat eat less total caloric intake for the day..SIMPLE nothing more to it...try keeping your workouts as they were before the deficit even though it will be hard..It's still beyond me why people make this a lot harder then it really is..Sure I know there are some people who are rules to the exception and lose fat a little bit harder but its same difference less calories of your total...The muscle don't just go away if you keep working hard on your workouts/programs whatever your following...

 

[Xlgx]

To cut fat eat less total caloric intake for the day..SIMPLE nothing more to it...try keeping your workouts as they were before the deficit even though it will be hard..It's still beyond me why people make this a lot harder then it really is..Sure I know there are some people who are rules to the exception and lose fat a little bit harder but its same difference less calories of your total...The muscle don't just go away if you keep working hard on your workouts/programs whatever your following...

This or the opposite. Keep calories same and increase your activity level with training and or cardio.

 

[Drogan]

I don't believe you continued to read my entire posts. I am supporting what I have personally benefited from "in the real world", with scientific evidence. I don't see what is wrong with extending the information to express the optimal utilization. I do plenty of things I know aren't optimal, but it's just that, I know they aren't optimal. So what's wrong with learning how to optimize all the tools an individual has at hand and then choosing what works best/conveniently for the individual.

Sorry, I have read it, and yes, it's optimal for carb intake but as far as fat burning is the goal, optimal carb intake may or may not be optimal depending on his regime. I'm not at all against post-workout carbs, but skipping them can also enhance fat burning. I would still take carbs after workout at least in this phase. Progress will slow down eventually so more radical approach with carbs may help as well.

 

[Drogan]

This or the opposite. Keep calories same and increase your activity level with training and or cardio.

This if we assume his training is good to begin with. Simply training more could also be counterproductive.

 

[jaydee]

My training is good with HIIT and wieghts as far as intensity and form go.

The only that could be amiss is that my training split is not optimal based on time restraints. This is somthing I'm constantly tuning and I believe I'm close to finding which split works best for my body.

As far as fat burning goes, by "training" isn't a problem. It is and will strip fat. My problem is getting the balance right of giving my body just enough fuel to hold onto muscle mass but not enough so that it burns fat.