Cut fat while keeping muscle

[Drogan]

As far as fat burning goes, by "training" isn't a problem. It is and will strip fat. My problem is getting the balance right of giving my body just enough fuel to hold onto muscle mass but not enough so that it burns fat.

Any training will burn fat. Balancing the fuel for the muscle isn't that hard as long as you stick to the numbers (I assume you know the formula and all). Start with 12xBodyweight calories 30% protein/40-30% carbs/30-40% fat (don't forget the fish oil), then see how it goes.
Optimizing the training is crucial, and if you have experience with successfully building muscle mass in a longer period, the same will work for cutting and keeping muscle with optionally a little bit of cardio.

 

[jaydee]

Here's an update,

I'm losing muscle, not losing fat and my weight is staying the same.

I'm lifting weights every second day and doing 2 x 20 minute interval training per week.

My diet is at about 1g per pound of protein and carbs are around 120g per day with about 50g of fat.

Any ideas on the next step? I have some but want to hear your thoughts?

 

[Demondosage]

It sounds to me like you havent dieted long enough to see what you are truly working with. Its normal to drop up to 10 lbs even in the first week when ur bf% is higher. I call this "The funky phase" of a diet. You will actually think u look worse the first few wks of dieting, because the rapid fluid/fat loss will leave u with the impression that u are losing muscle, but u just havent lost enough yet to see it clearly. Weight loss will soon slow down and things will come in more gradual, and eventually faster as you get past initial 6 wks of dieting.

I say to keep going and ignore it for now. Stop looking at urself for a few wks and keep to the gameplan. Then reassess from that point. What ur experiencing is normal

 

[jaydee]

Does it really take that long? I've been on the diet for about 4 weeks now and interval training for two weeks. The diet is quite restrictive and I certainly feel flat on it at times.

I would have thought it would have made a difference by now. The priority is fat loss as opposed to muscle gain at the moment, but I don't want to lose muscle if I'm not also losing fat.

The main fat is belly fat. There's some fat around my chest and hips too but it's overall body fat I want to lose.

I wonder if I should up my protein and add more interval training?

 

[jaydee]

I forgot to add, I'm having 30g of carbs in the middle of workout and 30g at the end in the form of glucose.

I'm doing this to replenish glucose, but is this just adding the callories ive just burnt off back in?

How do the people on 50g of carbs a day do this?

 

[Gojiraz]

I forgot to add, I'm having 30g of carbs in the middle of workout and 30g at the end in the form of glucose.

I'm doing this to replenish glucose, but is this just adding the callories ive just burnt off back in?

How do the people on 50g of carbs a day do this?

It's important to not get caught up in thinking what energy you are expending in the gym is ruined if you eat something after, what matters is the other 23 hours. Hence focus on what your net caloric intake is and don't think because you're eating what you just worked off as a bad thing, why would it matter then vs 2 hours later? Again it's about what goes on after the workout, as you become more and more fit your body's dependence on glucose will rise while use of fat will decrease (depending on your training), hence you're BMR energy use will become higher (%) of fat and your workout energy use will become higher (%) glucose. If you think you're truly losing muscle then you're calorie deficit is too high and or your workouts are too intense resulting in compromise of your nervous system/endocrine system/metabolism. Once again, just want to stress the point that it's a marathon not a sprint and that the abundance of research show that 95% (I believe) do not achieve long term fat loss. Be part of the 5%! Thank you Based Piana!

What I would suggest doing if your not already is tracking calories with something like myfitnesspal or cronometer. Wish I had been doing it for years, it keeps you from cheating and really breaks it down to a science.

 

[Wiltedrose]

I'm sure this question gets thrown around a lot on here but I wanted an answer specific to my case.

I'm pretty much a "fat skinny" person with a 90cm waiste. I estimate my body fat to be about 25%.

So I had been bulking and basically just trying to put on weight, knowing that if I keep lifting weights, the extra fat will get burnt off. That was until I realized just how high my body fat is compared to what is healthy.

I never had this problem when I was younger.... I would have about 10% fat and the concern was not having ENOUGH fat.

Now I'm at the opposite end and trying to find a balance where I can burn fat but retain my muscle.

Lately I've simply been lowering my daily carbs by about 20g per day every week and I am now at a point where the fat is certainly coming off, but so is all my muscle.

How should I approach this? From a person who's never really had to "cut" before.

Few questions here that if answered, I can help you better:

1) Have you gotten any lab work done? It could be a hormonal problem, i.e high estrogen/lower test.

2) How do you know that you're losing muscle? what method are you using to determine your muscle loss/gain?

Overall though, Higher PO low CHO diet results in faster weight loss than traditional dieting..

 

[manafest]

Few questions here that if answered, I can help you better:

1) Have you gotten any lab work done? It could be a hormonal problem, i.e high estrogen/lower test.

2) How do you know that you're losing muscle? what method are you using to determine your muscle loss/gain?

Overall though, Higher PO low CHO diet results in faster weight loss than traditional dieting..

Less calories Period...nothing special about anything...

 

[Wiltedrose]

Less calories Period...nothing special about anything...

Caloric restriction is nessessary of course, but it's been shown that high protein/high fat diet is better than high carbs low fat/protein diet in terms of fat to LBM ratio and maintenance.

Noakes, M., Keogh, J. B., Foster, P. R., & Clifton, P. M. (2005). Effect of an energy-restricted, high-protein, loaw-fat diet relative to a conventional high-carbohydrate, low-fat diet on weight loss, body composition, nutritional status, and markers of cardiovascular health in obese women. The American journal of clinical nutrition, 81(6), 1298-1306.

Layman, D. K., Boileau, R. A., Erickson, D. J., Painter, J. E., Shiue, H., Sather, C., & Christou, D. D. (2003). A reduced ratio of dietary carbohydrate to protein improves body composition and blood lipid profiles during weight loss in adult women. The Journal of nutrition, 133(2), 411-417.

 

[Docd187123]

Caloric restriction is nessessary of course, but it's been shown that high protein/high fat diet is better than high carbs low fat/protein diet in terms of fat to LBM ratio and maintenance.

Noakes, M., Keogh, J. B., Foster, P. R., & Clifton, P. M. (2005). Effect of an energy-restricted, high-protein, loaw-fat diet relative to a conventional high-carbohydrate, low-fat diet on weight loss, body composition, nutritional status, and markers of cardiovascular health in obese women. The American journal of clinical nutrition, 81(6), 1298-1306.

Your first study has a faulty design. They evaluated a high protein diet vs a high carb diet. Of course the high protein diet would fare better. It also does not study or mention what you think it does. In fact it says the opposite. From the conclusion:

An energy-restricted, high-protein, low-fat diet provides nutritional and metabolic benefits that are equal to and sometimes greater than those observed with a high-carbohydrate diet.

Notice where it says LOW FAT diet.

Layman, D. K., Boileau, R. A., Erickson, D. J., Painter, J. E., Shiue, H., Sather, C., & Christou, D. D. (2003). A reduced ratio of dietary carbohydrate to protein improves body composition and blood lipid profiles during weight loss in adult women. The Journal of nutrition, 133(2), 411-417.

Your second study also has a faulty design. We already know protein preserves muscle mass but they compared a diet which was deficient in protein intake to one that was sufficient. They also don't mention anything to do with a high fat diet like you said


Conversely, a diet higher in carbs will allow glycogen stores to be fuller, improve athletic performance, and allow better hormone manipulation to counter the changes from dieting (T3, leptin, ghrelin, etc).

 

[Wiltedrose]

Your first study has a faulty design. They evaluated a high protein diet vs a high carb diet. Of course the high protein diet would fare better. It also does not study or mention what you think it does. In fact it says the opposite. From the conclusion:

An energy-restricted, high-protein, low-fat diet provides nutritional and metabolic benefits that are equal to and sometimes greater than those observed with a high-carbohydrate diet.

Notice where it says LOW FAT diet.



Your second study also has a faulty design. We already know protein preserves muscle mass but they compared a diet which was deficient in protein intake to one that was sufficient. They also don't mention anything to do with a high fat diet like you said


Conversely, a diet higher in carbs will allow glycogen stores to be fuller, improve athletic performance, and allow better hormone manipulation to counter the changes from dieting (T3, leptin, ghrelin, etc).

I stand corrected.

 

[jaydee]

Few questions here that if answered, I can help you better:

1) Have you gotten any lab work done? It could be a hormonal problem, i.e high estrogen/lower test.

Yes I have low free testosterone.

High E doesn't show up on blood tests but I consistantly on saliva tests. I dont think the way they test E in Australia is accurate in blood tests.

I've tried TRT exhaustively with no success.

I figure if I can drop my 25% body fat to 12%, I might stop the aromatasing to E so much and might be able to get my T levels back to normal.

 

[jaydee]

The theory is that my body is stuck in a metabolic rutt due to the fat gain. If I can break out of it my metabolism might fire up and I can return to having a six pack and good T levels.

I am basically done with relying on western medicine to fix my hormonal problems. I'm going back to basics and trying to get my body healthy and fit again.

I have (within the last year) had good results doing a 5 day bro split and was gaining noticable muscle with slow but steady fat loss. I just dont have the time to return to that and want to focus more on the fat loss side of things for now.

 

[jaydee]

I've made a decision to stop the weights for now and focus on cutting my protein and overall callories and doing HIIT 3 times a week with some other cardio on every other day with a day off a week.

I think getting down to about 12% body fat and THEN starting weights will be a good idea as it's really tough to try and bulk up but cut such a large amount of fat at the same time.

 

[Dr JIM]

I would estimate that I'm losing about half a pound to one pound a day at the moment. But that's fat and muscle by the looks of it.

My aim is to get to about 12% body fat and see where I'm at before starting to up the callories again.

Am I just going a bit too hot with cutting the carbs?

Protein intake is about 1g per pound per day.

First and foremost how do you KNOW what your LBM or TBF percent is.
It can be a guessing game where the most reliable assay is some mirror fella and that's bc FAT can obscure muscle.

So find out what your LBM/TBF ratio actually is ASAP.

 

[glycomann]

60 posts and I didn't see that anyone asked the OP to post his typical daily diet. OP if you want to lean out and get help doing so you have to post up exactly what you eat. If you are not weighing things at least at first to get a base for items and their caloric and macro content then it is a lost cause.

 

[jaydee]

I've used a body fat percentage calculator which is usually accurate to about 2% each way and I've come in at around 25%. I tried a second one to make sure and I am 25% body fat.

 

[jaydee]

I'm eating 1g per pound protein, about 110g of carbs and 50g of fat per day spread out over 6 meals. It consists of fruit, mueslie, protein powder, eggs, sardines, steak/chicken, rice

 

[jaydee]

The bottom line is there is more callories going in than there is going out. I don't have time to weight train effintiently enough at the moment so I'm not burning all the callories from all that protein.

It will be a lot easier for me to cut than to bulk at the moment.

 

[ZenutoTheKing]

@jaydee Carb cycling and compound workouts work well for me. I use this calculator to set up calories and macro. http://sareyko.net/leancalc