NO libido & other sympts > FULL LAB results > thoughts?

[Foxtrot81]

Well, my libido/sexual drive has been decreasing slowly for the last 7-8 years (I'm 34yo now) to a point where it's not there anymore - whatsoever!!! Also seen less ejaculation volume, no morning erections, less penis skin sensitivity and few/none sexual fantasies. Reduced effect of Cialis-Levitra-Viagra has been observed.

Other symptoms: "void/empty" feeling, mood changes, less sociability, less interest for new things, lack of motivation, passive attitude.

All tests done around 8:30am after 12hs fasting. NO SUPPLEMENTS/NO MEDS AT ALL!!!

BIOCHEMISTRY (only borderline results shown):
Potassium: 3.4 nmol/L (3.5 - 5.1)
Chloride: 95 nmol/L (98 - 107)
Uric Acid: 541 umol/L (266 - 474)
Ferritin: 407 ug/L (30 - 400)
Homocysteine: 14 umol/L ( < 15) /// OPTIMUM: <7?
Vitamin B6: 32.5 ug/L (8.7 - 27.2)
Vitamin D25 Oh: 46 nmol/L (50 - 200)
Copper: 21.3 umol/L (11 - 22)
Microalbumin/Creatinine ratio (*URINE): 6.21 mg/nmol (0.0 - 2.80)

ENDOCRINOLOGY (all results shown):
DHEA-SULPHATE (SERUM): 10.3 umol/L (5.8 - 25) /// OPTIMUM: 19-24?
DHEA (*SALIVARY AM): 1.60 nmol/L (0.25 - 2.22)
DHEA (*SALIVARY PM): 0.40 nmol/L (0.25 - 2.22)
FSH: 1.6 IU/L (1.5 - 12.4)
LH: 3.0 IU/L (1.7 - 8.6)
TESTO TOTAL: 14.1 nmol/L (7.6 - 31.0) /// 30-34yo: 19-22?
SHBG: 26 nmol/L (16 - 55) /// 30-34yo: 35-40?
FREE ANDROGEN INDEX (T/SHBG): 50.4% (24 - 104)
TESTO BIOAVAILABLE (LAB MEASURED): 3.7 nmol/L (2.7 - 12)
TESTO FREE (CALCULATED): 2.05% (1.1 - 2.5)
DHT: 0.74 nmol/L (0.34 - 2.06) /// 20-40yo: 2.77 - 3.80?
CORTISOL (SERUM 8:30AM): 167 nmol/L (172 - 497) /// 30-35yo: 340-350?
CORTISOL (*SALIVARY 8AM): 31 nmol/L (7.45 - 33)
CORTISOL (*SALIVARY 1PM): 18 nmol/L (2.76 - 11)
CORTISOL (*SALIVARY 5PM): 3.3 nmol/L (1.4 - 7.5)
CORTISOL (*SALIVARY 10PM): 1.9 nmol/L (0.8 - 3.9)
MELATONIN (*SALIVARY 8AM): <0.50 pg/mL (< 10.50)
MELATONIN (*SALIVARY 5PM): <0.50 pg/mL (< 0.88)
MELATONIN (*SALIVARY 2AM): 4.40 pg/mL (2.5 - 31)
PROGESTERONE: 2.1 nmol/L (0.70 - 4.30) /// MALES: 0.38 - 0.85?
OESTRADIOL/E2: 100 nmol/L (100 - 192)
PROGESTERONE/E2 RATIO: 21:1
TESTO/E2 RATIO: 140:1
PROLACTIN: 266 mIU/L (86 - 324)
IGF-1: 17.6 nmol/L (16.3 - 39.3) /// 25-40yo: 15-65?
ACTH: 12.2 ng/L (< 46)
ACTH/CORTISOL RATIO: 0.23
TSH: 2.8 mIU/L (0.27 - 4.20) /// OPTIMUM: 0.3-2.5?
FREE T4: 15.7 pmol/L (12 - 22)
TOTAL T4: 73 nmol/L (60 - 154)
FREE T3: 4.4 pmol/L (3.1 - 6.8)
THYROGLOBULIN ANTIBODY: <10.0 IU/mL (0 - 115)
THYROID PEROXIDASE ANTOBODY: 9.1 IU/ml (0 - 34)

IDEAS:
-Secondary Hypogonadism
-Adrenal Insufficiency
-Low Testo for age
-Mild Hypothyroidism
-Aromatase Disorders
-Apnea? (I have episodes, not diagnosed)

Hope you can help me with some thoughts!

Thanks!

 

[jaymaximus]

Go see a doctor. Of medicine.

 

[Foxtrot81]

I will see en Endocrinologist later this week but since in the UK they are very conservative even at borderline levels I would like to have other opinions to discuss with him.

 

[Dr JIM]

How long have you had symptoms of depression?

You've had these symptoms for 6-7 years yet what compelled you to seek advice at THIS JUNCTURE.

WHO ordered these "shotgun" assays, heck about the only test overlooked was a serum porcelain level!

 

[Dr JIM]

I will see en Endocrinologist later this week but since in the UK they are very conservative even at borderline levels I would like to have other opinions to discuss with him.

An "opinion" from those on an AAS forum to rebut that of an Endo who actually EVALUATES YOU, are u serious.

 

[Foxtrot81]

It's been a long and steady libido decrease, and it has come to a point where there's really none. I thought it was "temporal", tried exercise and better nutrition in between but didn't help.

As for the test, some are from my GP and then I added others based on my research, didn't want to leave anything out.

thanks

 

[Dr JIM]

These symptoms are much more consistent with depression and I see nothing in your lab results that suggest otherwise.

WHO ordered all these tests they are absurd based on the complaints you listed?

Next up a MRI of the "brain" to be sure, NUTS!

Sleep Apnea? What is your HEIGHT WEIGHT and social situation.

Are u working, disabled, married have young ones?

What meds are you taking and how much alcohol do you drink?

 

[Dr JIM]

Oh and the ? mark you have cited by serum cortisol, TT, DHEA and PG levels etc at best represent the MEDIAN for that age group, which should NOT be misconstrued as the NORMS for one's age!

For example a TT that approximates 400ng/dl, which your's does, is NOT low TT for ANY age group, but for some reason it's now obvious you have already been told that by more than one physician.

 

[Dr JIM]

Oh and the ? mark you have cited by serum cortisol, TT, DHEA and PG levels etc at best represent the MEDIAN for that age group, which should NOT be misconstrued as the NORMS for one's age!

For example a TT that approximates 400ng/dl, which your's does, is NOT low TT for ANY age group, but for some reason it's now obvious you have already been told that by more than one physician.

To that end if your searching for an "I have a hormonal rather than a functional disorder" diagnosis keep searching, yet also know because that "opinion" will not be factually based, it's not worth the time of day.

Good luck

 

[qwertyzoz]

I'd agree with the notion that depression, and not of an endocrine nature, is far more likely. Physiologic TRT is likely to get you....exactly where you are with respect to numbers. And a doc who treats purely off of numbers isn't very bright. Shotgun lab work looking for ANY abnormality isn't a good strategy either. By statistical chance alone, you're bound to come up with something abby-normal.....that means jack in the end.

 

[phatmike]

Your symptons sound very similar to mine, I am 28 and the past 6-7 years exactly the same, declining sex drive, reduced sensitivity, no morning wood etc. I have had a few blood tests done over the years and my latest was my lowest. My total T was around 300.

I have an appointment booked with an endo but it was like a 3 month wait, and it got to the point where I was so low I started my own trt basically. So far so good. 120mg a week test E, (first one was 90mg) and 250ius hcg twice a week. Only 10 days in, and so far have noticed slight improve in energy endurance and mood. Also penile function and sex drive mildy improved, but obviously it's early days yet.

My free test was a bit lower than yours, but even at 400 (which I came in at a few years prior), I had many of the same symptons, just minus the lack of energy and mood. That really got worse when I got down to the 300's.

I will have a meeting with the endo and get full bloods done and go from there.
I wouldn't hold much hope on an NHS endo, because like you said, unless you are basically on deaths doorstep, they probably won't help lol.

 

[master.on]

IMO Thyroid FT3 and FT4 are below midrange and few people will fell well with it despite being called "normal".
Supplementing with both T3 and T4 will do wonders.

 

[Dr JIM]

IMO Thyroid FT3 and FT4 are below midrange and few people will fell well with it despite being called "normal".
Supplementing with both T3 and T4 will do wonders.

Really so "midrange" T-3/T-4" values are concocted nonsense some statistician plucked out of thin air as being "NORMAL", even though according to YOU they are in fact ABNORMAL, LMAO

That being said, I suppose you can cite evidence based literature to support this comment, or perhaps it's based on your vast clinical experience evaluating and treating ONE patient, YOU, with self diagnosed thyroid dysfunction.

Absolutely NUTS!

 

[master.on]

Really so "midrange" T-3/T-4" values are concocted nonsense some statistician plucked out of thin air as being "NORMAL", even though according to YOU they are in fact ABNORMAL, LMAO

That being said, I suppose you can cite evidence based literature to support this comment, or perhaps it's based on your vast clinical experience evaluating and treating ONE patient, YOU, with self diagnosed thyroid dysfunction.

Absolutely NUTS!

Absolutely NOT nuts.
Not my opinion at all.
Check tiredthyroid.com or elaine-moore.com
a website from a former lab technician or something who tested THOUSANDS of people over the years so she concluded healthy and energetic people have midrange or higher thyroid levels.
http://www.tiredthyroid.com/optimal-labs.html

 

[Dr JIM]

I wouldn't hold much hope on an NHS endo.

.

A NHS endo? What's that?

I assume you're referring to the sub-speciality of internal medicine which confines the curriculum and education of fellows to Non-Hormonal System components of endocrinology?

 

[Dr JIM]

Absolutely NOT nuts.
Not my opinion at all.
Check tiredthyroid.com or elaine-moore.com
a website from a former lab technician or something who tested THOUSANDS of people over the years so she concluded healthy and energetic people have midrange or higher thyroid levels.
http://www.tiredthyroid.com/optimal-labs.html

I said EVIDENCE BASED, or do you even know the difference bt a self help BLOG, FORUM or BOARD where the OPININS of others, including anecdotes like yours are cited as "proof"!

I can locate proof the world will end tomorrow on Blogs you find so comforting, and if not, why there's always the National Enquirer, Ladies Home Journal, or a gym bro with an "opinion" he "thinks" is legit.

The problem with those of your ilk, you actually believe the crap you're pushing bc you NEED to, bc you're treating yourself and as a result you must "know better than those doctors" right.

For Clowns like you, the ends justifies the means!

Finally for a clue about what "evidence based" means try sites such as; Google Scholar, PubMed or MedLine!

The "search" could/would begin with something like; sensitivity and specificity of human serum T-3 and/or T-4 levels.

I won't be holding my breath for you to post anything which supports your "mid-range is abnormal" nonsense that's for sure, lol!

 

[Devika]

Tell 'em Dr. Jim!

 

[master.on]

I said EVIDENCE BASED, or do you even know the difference bt a self help BLOG, FORUM or BOARD where the OPININS of others, including anecdotes like yours are cited as "proof"!

I can locate proof the world will end tomorrow on Blogs you find so comforting, and if not, why there's always the National Enquirer, Ladies Home Journal, or a gym bro with an "opinion" he "thinks" is legit.

The problem with those of your ilk, you actually believe the crap you're pushing bc you NEED to, bc you're treating yourself and as a result you must "know better than those doctors" right.

For Clowns like you, the ends justifies the means!

Finally for a clue about what "evidence based" means try sites such as; Google Scholar, PubMed or MedLine!

The "search" could/would begin with something like; sensitivity and specificity of human serum T-3 and/or T-4 levels.

I won't be holding my breath for you to post anything which supports your "mid-range is abnormal" nonsense that's for sure, lol!

Stop calling us clowns
that's abusive

You want hard evidence here it is
T3 thyroid helps relieve depression where antidepressants have failed
T3 augmentation of SSRI resistant depression.
T3 augmentation of SSRI resistant depression. - PubMed - NCBI

Combined therapy of T3, and antidepressants in depression.
Combined therapy of T3, and antidepressants in depression. - PubMed - NCBI

T3 augmentation of antidepressant treatment in T4-replaced thyroid patients.
T3 augmentation of antidepressant treatment in T4-replaced thyroid patients. - PubMed - NCBI

Basic mechanisms of augmentation of antidepressant effects with thyroid hormone.
Basic mechanisms of augmentation of antidepressant effects with thyroid hormone. - PubMed - NCBI

Imbalances of Thyroid, gonadal steroids, melatonin and adrenal cortex hormones can trigger depression
Hormone treatment of depression
Hormone treatment of depression

And so on.
If you want hard evidence ask for it but there's no need to call people clowns.
Don't be an asshole.
Your doctor is going to put you on antidepressants ASAP and you'll suffer their many side effects when maybe all you need is a little thyroid.
Take it as you want.

 

[Dr JIM]

Oh NOW your changing the party line by QUALIFYING your earlier remarks by
adding how drugs, antidepressants in particular, may influence the reliability of thyroid testing.

IMO Thyroid FT3 and FT4 are below midrange and few people will fell well with it despite being called "normal".
Supplementing with both T3 and T4 will do wonders.

Of course since many DRUGS bind to proteins they can effect serum T-3 and T-4 levels but that's NOT what your original statement was CLOWN!

In the post above you clearly indicate the problem is the accuracy of a T-3/T4 assay itself, bc according to YOU although many patients may have "mid-range normal" T3/T4 levels, symptoms consistent with thyroid dysfunction persist, and that's just BULLSHIT, pure and simple.

You're not very bright for someone "treating themselves" are you.

I suppose you also believe over treating thyroid dysfunction does "wonders" for your heart don't you, lol!

Have you ever heard of atrial-fib, PSVT, high output cardiac failure, myocardial ischemia or catabolic states.

Youre now a FOOLISH CLOWN!

 

[master.on]

Yea whatever.

A brief trial of T3 may boost mood better and with less side effects than any antidepressant.

Distinguishing depression from hypothyroidism
When depression starts in the neck
http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletters/harvard_mental_health_letter/2011/july
http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletter_article/when-depression-starts-in-the-neck

BBers often do cycles of T3 just to get their abs cut so why not try a little T3 to live a HAPPIER life?
Happiness is or should be the ultimate goal in life.
No offense but you sound so embittered.

Whatever you do to solve your health (and mind) issues just do it ASAP.
Or not. Do whatever you want.