First Cycle, Seeking Advice

[newtothegame999]

Newbie here. 48 y/o, 5'8", 151 lb, male. Been lifting for over eight years now. Currently at 9-10% BF and lifting just shy of my PR levels. I'm pretty close to my genetic max without risking injury to overtraining (keep in mind my age guys!).

I'm not looking to gain major mass. With my job, getting too big fast will be noticed and counterproductive. My goal is to break my historic plateau and gain 4-5 lbs more of lean. At my size, 5 lbs more of lean and I'll stay within my suit sizes but be looking my best ever. Being new to this, I am however rather concerned about fucking up my endocrine system and want to be conservative so I can PCT back to healthy levels and keep most of my gains.

With these goals in mind and the research I've done, I'm thinking that a 6-week Test E/Var cycle would be a smart experiment. I know Test E isn't usually used for short cycles, but I travel quite a bit and injections multiple times per week would be difficult if not impossible.

Here's what I'm thinking:

WEEK.......GEAR.............DIET..........PROGRAM/LIFTING GOAL
WEEK 1 - 600mg Test E - Maintenance - Full Deload
WEEK 2 - 300mg Test E - Bulk (+900/+250) - 4D Bulk Prgrm Wk 1
WEEK 3 - 300mg Test E - Bulk (+900/+250) - 4D Bulk Prgrm Wk 2
WEEK 4 - 300mg Test E - Bulk (+900/+250) - 4D Bulk Prgrm Wk 3
WEEK 5 - 300mg Test E - Bulk (+900/+250) - 4D Bulk Prgrm Wk 4
WEEK 6 - Anavar 60mg - Mini Cut (+100/-500) - RPT
WEEK 7 - Anavar 60mg - Mini Cut (+100/-500) - RPT
WEEK 8 - Anavar 60mg - Full Deload
WEEK 9 - Clomid (100/50/25/25) & Nolva (40/20/20/20)- Recomp - RPT
WEEK 10 - Clomid (100/50/25/25) & Nolva (40/20/20/20)- Recomp - RPT
WEEK 11 - Clomid (100/50/25/25) & Nolva (40/20/20/20)- Recomp - RPT
WEEK 12 - Clomid (100/50/25/25) & Nolva (40/20/20/20)- Recomp - RPT

With the Test E at 300mg, do you guys think I should add HCG and Armidex to this mix? Also let me know if you think I can safely up the kcals during the bulking weeks to max benefit while keeping the gains largely lean.

Why the mini-cut? (I know someone's gonna propose this is a waste of time and gear) My key goal is 4 lbs of new lean maintained after PCT while keeping my BF low as it is now. Also, as a banged up old dude with tendon injuries over the past few years, I know I can't lift intensely for more than 4 weeks without a full deload or reduction in my program density. My lifting program is also based on 4-week periodization. I figure then two weeks of minimalist RPT while cutting on Anavar would be a good way to bridge the Test E to PCT while shedding off some gained fat. Off-cycle, my plan is to recomp or cycle between lean bulks and short cuts. If all this works, I may run 2 of these cycles per year.

Obviously as a newbie, side effects and HPTA damage is one of my biggest concerns! I know even low dose gear carries risk, but my goal is to minimize that as much as possible even if I am being a bit overly cautious. If I can't confidently reduce the HPTA damage risk to less than 1-2%, I'd rather miss my ideal physique goals and stay with my natural 600-640 test level.

Any sage advice from the gurus out there?

 

[Streetracer_PB]

I will follow your thread to see some VETs responses.

I have very little experience of recovery for your age group so i would not want to give you broscience that may affect your health in the long run.

Only comment i can give you is that test E i only start to see gains from week 6.. hence i would not use a long ester less than 12 weeks.

I know its not best practice to use prop only 3 times a week but personally i think you will be better of pinning Tuesday (evening) Thursday (evening) and Sunday (morning) test prop @100 to 150mg a shot. Test E over 6 weeks will do more damage than good.

Good luck. And please post a photo or two. I am sure you will motivate many.

 

[newtothegame999]

I will follow your thread to see some VETs responses.

I have very little experience of recovery for your age group so i would not want to give you broscience that may affect your health in the long run.

Only comment i can give you is that test E i only start to see gains from week 6.. hence i would not use a long ester less than 12 weeks.

I know its not best practice to use prop only 3 times a week but personally i think you will be better of pinning Tuesday (evening) Thursday (evening) and Sunday (morning) test prop @100 to 150mg a shot. Test E over 6 weeks will do more damage than good.

Good luck. And please post a photo or two. I am sure you will motivate many.

Thanks for the feedback. I have read mixed info on the efficacy time for esters. Some sources cite 2 weeks, other folks report gains at 4-6 weeks. I wonder if its possible to kick start the cycle at week two and three with Test P while the Test E is still loading. Or, maybe someone can suggest another gear that can be pinned weekly with faster results.

I'm just anticipating possible travel problems and I have read a lot of folks promoting the theory that shorter cycles result in shorter and more reliable recovery.

Maybe a smarter approach is just starting with a 3-4 week Test P cycle when my calendar is reliably open from travel.

 

[Jerkthamerk]

I deleted my post cause it was long and ranting about why it doesn't seem smart specifically because you plan to do too much in a short period of time and you plan to do multiple cycles even though the reason for this 6 week cycle is to avoid body damage.

There are benefits to low dose test cycles but i don't think at this short.

If you go forward I would definitely not use a long ester. Ai and hcg would only be needed at very low doses if at all.

 

[newtothegame999]

I deleted my post cause it was long and ranting about why it doesn't seem smart specifically because you plan to do too much in a short period of time and you plan to do multiple cycles even though the reason for this 6 week cycle is to avoid body damage.

There are benefits to low dose test cycles but i don't think at this short.

If you go forward I would definitely not use a long ester. Ai and hcg would only be needed at very low doses if at all.

Thanks for your comments. I appreciate your restraint, but I am interested to hear your insight. I assume you mean by 'doing too much' you mean trying to bulk and cut in the same cycle? The logic behind that plan is based on a four-week training period. I know from previous injury that I can lift intensely for four weeks before I need a deload (or risk reawakening tendonosis). Instead of deloading right away (and wasting three weeks of ester in my system), my thought was to reduce my workload to three days of reverse pyramid on the Big Three while cutting, which was the point of the Anavar.

As I think this all through more, maybe the best approach for first wading into the water is just a three week Test P cycle (perhaps 80mg EOD) timed with weeks 2-4 of my lifting program. Those are the weeks I usually see best progress. Then immediately afterward start PCT while switching to maintenance and deload.

Again, my key goals are 4-5 lbs lean gain and HPTA safety. As long as the delta on mass gain is in my favor (gain-to-loss during PCT) and I'm managing my risk well, I am cool with that. Even if I don't hit 4 lbs first cycle, if I recover well I can repeat until I get there. It also means I won't be ripping any t-shirts in 12 weeks which would likely get noticed by colleagues and clients (not to mention my wife!).

 

[Jerkthamerk]

Thanks for your comments. I appreciate your restraint, but I am interested to hear your insight. I assume you mean by 'doing too much' you mean trying to bulk and cut in the same cycle? The logic behind that plan is based on a four-week training period. I know from previous injury that I can lift intensely for four weeks before I need a deload (or risk reawakening tendonosis). Instead of deloading right away (and wasting three weeks of ester in my system), my thought was to reduce my workload to three days of reverse pyramid on the Big Three while cutting, which was the point of the Anavar.

As I think this all through more, maybe the best approach for first wading into the water is just a three week Test P cycle (perhaps 80mg EOD) timed with weeks 2-4 of my lifting program. Those are the weeks I usually see best progress. Then immediately afterward start PCT while switching to maintenance and deload.

Again, my key goals are 4-5 lbs lean gain and HPTA safety. As long as the delta on mass gain is in my favor (gain-to-loss during PCT) and I'm managing my risk well, I am cool with that. Even if I don't hit 4 lbs first cycle, if I recover well I can repeat until I get there. It also means I won't be ripping any t-shirts in 12 weeks which would likely get noticed by colleagues and clients (not to mention my wife!).

Sorry man, I honestly just don't think AAS is the best solution for you. These short cycles are a waste because if you shut down your testes then why not just get the shit done instead of shutting them down again and again for short periods. It sounds like if you can't train through your injury you should not be using AAS. If your limiting your cycle and gains because your worried about your appearance and becoming noticeably bigger you should not be using AAS. All signs point to no. If you can not fit yourself into a normal cycle then you can't change the science to fit you. I personally have never heard of such short cycles especially with a long ester. After four weeks it would finally be guaranteed at its full potential and then you would stop the next week. Essential the test would only be benefitting you fully for three weeks or so.

Like I said before it sounds like your bigges issue is being able to recover testes and natural test levels. But shutting down your natural production multiple times a year for short mini periods of time would be much harder on you than running two normal length cycles and only shutting down natural production once.

Even most oral cycles run 4-8 weeks. You won't switch compounds because you can't shoot up more than once a week. You won't extend your cycle because of your injury. You won't up dosages because you don't want to go up a clothes size. If you are not willing to compromise at all then there is nothing I can really say except hopefully someone comes on with evidence to support long esters on mini cycles then you kinda got your answer.

 

[Throwback]

Newbie here. 48 y/o, 5'8", 151 lb, male. Been lifting for over eight years now. Currently at 9-10% BF and lifting just shy of my PR levels. I'm pretty close to my genetic max without risking injury to overtraining (keep in mind my age guys!).

I'm not looking to gain major mass. With my job, getting too big fast will be noticed and counterproductive. My goal is to break my historic plateau and gain 4-5 lbs more of lean. At my size, 5 lbs more of lean and I'll stay within my suit sizes but be looking my best ever. Being new to this, I am however rather concerned about fucking up my endocrine system and want to be conservative so I can PCT back to healthy levels and keep most of my gains.

With these goals in mind and the research I've done, I'm thinking that a 6-week Test E/Var cycle would be a smart experiment. I know Test E isn't usually used for short cycles, but I travel quite a bit and injections multiple times per week would be difficult if not impossible.

Here's what I'm thinking:

WEEK.......GEAR.............DIET..........PROGRAM/LIFTING GOAL
WEEK 1 - 600mg Test E - Maintenance - Full Deload
WEEK 2 - 300mg Test E - Bulk (+900/+250) - 4D Bulk Prgrm Wk 1
WEEK 3 - 300mg Test E - Bulk (+900/+250) - 4D Bulk Prgrm Wk 2
WEEK 4 - 300mg Test E - Bulk (+900/+250) - 4D Bulk Prgrm Wk 3
WEEK 5 - 300mg Test E - Bulk (+900/+250) - 4D Bulk Prgrm Wk 4
WEEK 6 - Anavar 60mg - Mini Cut (+100/-500) - RPT
WEEK 7 - Anavar 60mg - Mini Cut (+100/-500) - RPT
WEEK 8 - Anavar 60mg - Full Deload
WEEK 9 - Clomid (100/50/25/25) & Nolva (40/20/20/20)- Recomp - RPT
WEEK 10 - Clomid (100/50/25/25) & Nolva (40/20/20/20)- Recomp - RPT
WEEK 11 - Clomid (100/50/25/25) & Nolva (40/20/20/20)- Recomp - RPT
WEEK 12 - Clomid (100/50/25/25) & Nolva (40/20/20/20)- Recomp - RPT

With the Test E at 300mg, do you guys think I should add HCG and Armidex to this mix? Also let me know if you think I can safely up the kcals during the bulking weeks to max benefit while keeping the gains largely lean.

Why the mini-cut? (I know someone's gonna propose this is a waste of time and gear) My key goal is 4 lbs of new lean maintained after PCT while keeping my BF low as it is now. Also, as a banged up old dude with tendon injuries over the past few years, I know I can't lift intensely for more than 4 weeks without a full deload or reduction in my program density. My lifting program is also based on 4-week periodization. I figure then two weeks of minimalist RPT while cutting on Anavar would be a good way to bridge the Test E to PCT while shedding off some gained fat. Off-cycle, my plan is to recomp or cycle between lean bulks and short cuts. If all this works, I may run 2 of these cycles per year.

Obviously as a newbie, side effects and HPTA damage is one of my biggest concerns! I know even low dose gear carries risk, but my goal is to minimize that as much as possible even if I am being a bit overly cautious. If I can't confidently reduce the HPTA damage risk to less than 1-2%, I'd rather miss my ideal physique goals and stay with my natural 600-640 test level.

Any sage advice from the gurus out there?

The whole cycle above is a waste of time...
Your 5'8...151. You are no where near your genetic potential and if you been in the gym as along as you say your diet, program or lifestyle have serious issues.
4 to 5 lbs lean mass can be accomplished in a couple to several months with the right discipline.
Dont do aas yet.....research and learn more about aas and dietary nutrition.
BTW...I started lifting at 51. 5ft 8 and 147.
Im nearly 54 now...as of yesterday. Im 194. The avi photo is 1 yr in at 52yrs and 168 lbs..
48 is not old.... unless you think you are!
Seriously you can get what you want without aas.

 

[Test_Subject]

If you're going to do a six week cycle, test E is a waste of your time. You'll gain some water weight that you'll lose during PCT and that's it.

I don't get the obsession with short cycles. A test only cycle is a breeze to recover from if you use HCG and do a proper PCT. If you only want to put on four pounds, just eat more...

 

[newtothegame999]

Even most oral cycles run 4-8 weeks. You won't switch compounds because you can't shoot up more than once a week. You won't extend your cycle because of your injury. You won't up dosages because you don't want to go up a clothes size. If you are not willing to compromise at all then there is nothing I can really say except hopefully someone comes on with evidence to support long esters on mini cycles then you kinda got your answer.

Don't misunderstand, the clothes size and injection frequency aren't deal breakers. But planning EOD injections while traveling internationally is going to take some planning. The four weeks issue though is also a factor I need to consider. That all said, I have read a bunch of posts over the past few weeks by folks doing 2-4 week cycles (albeit, not Test E). That may be the right approach. Perhaps using something like Test Prop @ 80-100mg EOD.

Like I said, I'm new to this shit and just seeking experienced advice. My goals are pretty conservative, so maybe there isn't a gear strategy with the right risk-reward I'm looking for. Too bad there isn't a true way to boost a 640 to 1,000 naturally. That unicorn would probably be exactly what I'm looking for.

 

[Jerkthamerk]

Like I said, I'm new to this shit and just seeking experienced advice. My goals are pretty conservative, so maybe there isn't a gear strategy with the right risk-reward I'm looking for. Too bad there isn't a true way to boost a 640 to 1,000 naturally. That unicorn would probably be exactly what I'm looking for.

Well you got the advice you are seeking. Just depends if you will take it. If all you are wanting to do is raise your natural test levels there are quite a few ways to raise your test without cycling. Cycling could raise test levels to way above what your looking for. Google ways to raise free testosterone, or raise LH without AAS. You would be surprised after some reading to find out how much you could raise it. There are a lot of fake claims but a lot of proven methods also.

 

[Thesauceboss]

Don't misunderstand, the clothes size and injection frequency aren't deal breakers. But planning EOD injections while traveling internationally is going to take some planning. The four weeks issue though is also a factor I need to consider. That all said, I have read a bunch of posts over the past few weeks by folks doing 2-4 week cycles (albeit, not Test E). That may be the right approach. Perhaps using something like Test Prop @ 80-100mg EOD.

Like I said, I'm new to this shit and just seeking experienced advice. My goals are pretty conservative, so maybe there isn't a gear strategy with the right risk-reward I'm looking for. Too bad there isn't a true way to boost a 640 to 1,000 naturally. That unicorn would probably be exactly what I'm looking for.

You should look into SARMS. I dont have any personal experience with them myself, but only heard good things on adding good lean size without being "too obvious".

Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk

 

[newtothegame999]

The whole cycle above is a waste of time...
Your 5'8...151. You are no where near your genetic potential and if you been in the gym as along as you say your diet, program or lifestyle have serious issues.
4 to 5 lbs lean mass can be accomplished in a couple to several months with the right discipline.
Dont do aas yet.....research and learn more about aas and dietary nutrition.
BTW...I started lifting at 51. 5ft 8 and 147.
Im nearly 54 now...as of yesterday. Im 194. The avi photo is 1 yr in at 52yrs and 168 lbs..
48 is not old.... unless you think you are!
Seriously you can get what you want without aas.

True, gaining weight is not difficult without aas. I was at 156 and lifting at PR levels before my last cut four months ago. Gaining 4-5 lbs and staying very lean, however, is a different story. I was also lifting so intensely during that period (4 days per week, 27 sets per session, GZCL structure) that after three cycles straight awakened an old tendonosis injury that took three months to tame again. I know you got a few more years on me, but it sounds like I've been lifting for a bit longer. Tear yourself up a bit, develop a few chronic injuries, and you'll see that lifting more isn't always the smartest strategy to growth at our age.

Right now after resuming a slow bulk I am lifting just short of where I was and looking my best yet. However, I know from hitting the roof several times over the years there is a point where no matter what better training, cal/macro cycling, supps, sleep, etc., it lands just short of my goal. As the old saying goes..."Big, Lean, or Natural...pick two."

 

[newtothegame999]

Well you got the advice you are seeking. Just depends if you will take it. If all you are wanting to do is raise your natural test levels there are quite a few ways to raise your test without cycling. Cycling could raise test levels to way above what your looking for. Google ways to raise free testosterone, or raise LH without AAS. You would be surprised after some reading to find out how much you could raise it. There are a lot of fake claims but a lot of proven methods also.

I've experimented with research-supported options pretty heavily the past few years: Heavy compound lifts, 8+ hours sleep, boron, d3, k2, creatine, tribulus, tongkat ali, forskolin, DAA, Japanese Thistle, DIM, moderate fiber, higher carbs, etc.. All said, it may have boosted by T by a few points, but its been pretty stable at 600-640 for the past year.

 

[newtothegame999]

You should look into SARMS. I dont have any personal experience with them myself, but only heard good things on adding good lean size without being "too obvious".

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Interesting. I only understood SARMS as a PCT.

 

[Thesauceboss]

Interesting. I only understood SARMS as a PCT.

There is SERMS and they are used as part of your pct. In some cases sarms are used to bridge between cycles of steroids during pct but are most known to add decent gains but not like steroids. Give Ostarine a search its definitely something to look into if I were you.

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[Brandaddy]

Such a waste of time.. What the hell do you even expect 4lbs to do? Lol. That is such an insignificant amount of weight. Especially at 150lbs.

 

[Trapmonster]

Don't listen to that kid, sarms shut you down just like aas. If u want a short cycle run test prop. My recommendation is fix your diet and keep getting natural gains. You should be able to reach 170 lbs with your test levels if you eat correctly

 

[Thesauceboss]

Don't listen to that kid, sarms shut you down just like aas. If u want a short cycle run test prop. My recommendation is fix your diet and keep getting natural gains. You should be able to reach 170 lbs with your test levels if you eat correctly

Man, there not as suppressive and dont make you "blow up". Doing just a 4 weeker of test doesnt make much sense.

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[Trapmonster]

Man, there not as suppressive and dont make you "blow up". Doing just a 4 weeker of test doesnt make much sense.

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You have no experience with them, I do.

 

[J p]

So what about first time lifter wanting to get gear . 35 180lb test level at 650 30 days ago. And advice . im in it for the long run and want to get HUGE. But I need to do it safely. What have I gt to do to get to 210 and how long