Tren gyno mechanism? Progesterone?

[Dr JIM]

What hormone serves as a metabolic precursor for ALL other steroid hormones from cortisol, aldosterone, DHT, TT, E-2 etc?

PROGESTERONE!!!

 

[Throwback]

Yes progesterone can amplify the effect of E2. No, Tamoxifen and raloxifene will still do their job. You can lower progesterone with a SPRM or dropping the compound elevating progesterone. I wouldn't suggest using the former on your own without a doctor's advice.


Trenbolone is not aromatized by the body, and is not measurably estrogenic. It is of note, however, that this steroid displays significant binding affinity for the progesterone receptor (slightly stronger than progesterone itself ).609 610 The side effects associated with progesterone are similar to those of estrogen, including negative feedback inhibition of testosterone production and enhanced rate of fat storage. Progestins also augment the stimulatory effect of estrogens on mammary tissue growth. There appears to be a strong synergy between these two hormones, such that gynecomastia might even occur with the help of progestins, without excessive estrogen levels. The use of an anti-estrogen, which inhibits the estrogenic component of this disorder, is often sufficient to mitigate gynecomastia caused by progestational anabolic/androgenic steroids. Note that progestational side effects are more common when trenbolone is being taken with other aromatizable steroids.

Excerpt From: Llewellyn, William. “Anabolics.” iBooks.
This material may be protected by copyright.

Awesome info....do i hear STICKY

 

[NFRCR]

I made an interesting observation some time ago and would like to document it.

I have learned that I can only run Test/Tren without keeping Test low when E2 is kept very low - otherwize I get lumps under nipples easily. Every time I run moderate Test and moderate-high Tren my Progesterone is very high.

The new finding:
I was running quite low Test and moderate Tren. It was the first time when I saw my Progesterone in the low-normal range instead of high-normal or high. I did not keep my E2 low. However, I had no issues with lumps and it seemed that even fatty tissue under nipples went away totally.

After that I added more Test. I made sure that E2 stayed the same. Progesterone went up with the addition of more Test. Nipples got puffy, lumps followed.

It is clear that Progesterone receptor activation amplifies the effects of E2. It seems when running Tren/Nandrolone the amplifying effect is determined by the sum of natural Progesterone + the progesteronic effects of Tren/Nandrolone.

And finally I have a question, why did my Progesterone go up with the addition of more Test while I made sure E2 stays the same? Can it be assumed that more androgens result in more Progesterone?

 

[Dr JIM]

I made an interesting observation ...... and would like to DOCUMENT it.


my Progesterone is very high.

Great but why don't you start by
"documenting" a copy of your BEFORE and AFTER LABS!

 

[Dr JIM]

Another interesting thing is that my left nipple is way more gyno prone. Zero lump in right nipple. Any idea why such difference in sensitivity?

Yea perhaps you enjoy playing with the left tit more than the right.

Wotd of advice, leave your tits
alone or your next "observation"
will be one of "guys I'm lactating"!

 

[NFRCR]

Before (no lumps):
Testosterone: 1210 ng/dL
E2: 38 pg/mL
Progesterone: 0.57 ng/dL
Prolactin: below reference range

After (painful lumps starting to form):
Testosterone: 3120 ng/dL
E2: 37 pg/mL
Progesterone: 1.4 ng/dL
Prolactin: below reference range

 

[Dr JIM]

Before (no lumps):
Testosterone: 1210 ng/dL
E2: 38 pg/mL
Progesterone: 0.57 ng/dL
Prolactin: below reference range

After (painful lumps starting to form):
Testosterone: 3120 ng/dL
E2: 37 pg/mL
Progesterone: 1.4 ng/dL
Prolactin: below reference range

Post a COPY of the lab reports.

Much like an E-2 level of 44pg/ml may be slightly above a labs reference range the same holds true for a PG value of 1.4 bc while both rise above the reference limits of many labs, neither should be considered "high", abnormal or suggestive of a pathological condition since at least 5% of NORMAL folk have such "high" values.

And that means ------- none of your SIGNS or SYMPTOMS should be attributed to "PROGESTERONE". But then again using your logic, couldnt a Prolactin level "below the reference range" be the "problem"!

The point reference ranges are guides, rather than stand alone gotcha's, that are to be used in conjunction with a patients signs, symptoms, exam, and medical history etc.

My suggestion, before you obtain "labs" learn how to interpret them correctly so the results have meaning, not only for yourself but "others" as well.

This also applies to YOUR DX of breast "lumps" ------ go see a Doc and obtain a formal DX by Sono or otherwise!

 

[NFRCR]

@Dr JIM A copy of the lab test results won't provide much more. All the values were in range except for T and Prolactin obviously. Progesterone 1.4 according to this lab fits just into the higher part of the reference range, so it's almost out of range. However, I have also had Progesterone level of 3.3 while on very high dose Tren.

I think you agree that Progesterone itself amplifies E2 and so does Tren via its progesteronic effects. And the sum of those would determine how much E2 gets amplified.

Do you have any theory on what affects the natural level of Progesterone? Is it the amount of androgens or rather not?

What is it that you say about nipples? That a palpable mass might not be gyno? Maybe so.