"Ask Chest Rockwell" column - Open thread for member questions

[Wunderpus]

"Useful" is a relative term, of course. Yes, It is significantly less potent than clenbuterol. However, if I informed someone they could get a 2-5% additive rate upon lipolysis some would see that as pointless while others would see that as amazing. So, it just depends...

Thoughts on cycling between the two in order to prevent desensitization? Or, are they so similar that this would be useless?

Something like 1 week of clen, 1 week of albuterol, 1 week of clen, etc. etc.

 

[ChestRockwell]

Thoughts on cycling between the two in order to prevent desensitization? Or, are they so similar that this would be useless?

Something like 1 week of clen, 1 week of albuterol, 1 week of clen, etc. etc.

I've never actually found any research to support the hypothesis that beta adrenergic receptor pathway desensitization occurs in adipose tissues as a result of clenbuterol exposure. Awhile back, I even spent some significant time and attempted to trace where this popular recommendation came from and and found a rodent study in the late 1980s which might be the culprit.

Changes in tissue blood flow and beta-receptor density of skeletal muscle in rats treated with the beta2-adrenoceptor agonist clenbuterol. - PubMed - NCBI

In any event, I've tried numerous clenbuterol "cycles" over the years on myself and others and have now come to my own conclusion that this hypothesis is a fallacy. I simply use clenbuterol in a minimum effective dose methodology for as long as it is required. Of course, the fact that doses may need to be increased is not a result of desensitization but rather the fact that the body adapts while dieting.

Clenbuterol is certainly a topic that interests me and one that I'll see if @Millard Baker would be interested in me writing a deep-dive on.

 

[XmadXscientist]

I've never actually found any research to support the hypothesis that beta adrenergic receptor pathway desensitization occurs in adipose tissues as a result of clenbuterol exposure. Awhile back, I even spent some significant time and attempted to trace where this popular recommendation came from and and found a rodent study in the late 1980s which might be the culprit.

This has been my experience too and like you all I could find was a rodent study here and there that this fallacy was loosely extracted from. Another case of copy/paste bro-science in my opinion.

 

[master.on]

I've never actually found any research to support the hypothesis that beta adrenergic receptor pathway desensitization occurs in adipose tissues as a result of clenbuterol exposure. Awhile back, I even spent some significant time and attempted to trace where this popular recommendation came from and and found a rodent study in the late 1980s which might be the culprit.

Changes in tissue blood flow and beta-receptor density of skeletal muscle in rats treated with the beta2-adrenoceptor agonist clenbuterol. - PubMed - NCBI

In any event, I've tried numerous clenbuterol "cycles" over the years on myself and others and have now come to my own conclusion that this hypothesis is a fallacy. I simply use clenbuterol in a minimum effective dose methodology for as long as it is required. Of course, the fact that doses may need to be increased is not a result of desensitization but rather the fact that the body adapts while dieting.

Clenbuterol is certainly a topic that interests me and one that I'll see if @Millard Baker would be interested in me writing a deep-dive on.

But it's a plain fact that clen stops working (at least the thermogenic effect does) by 2-3 weeks
What gives?

 

[ChestRockwell]

But it's a plain fact that clen stops working (at least the thermogenic effect does) by 2-3 weeks
What gives?

I'm going to speculate you are not accounting for the metabolic adaptations the body goes through during periods of dieting. It is similar to why one will stop losing weight using a dietary structure that previously started them out in a deficit.

The thermogenic effects don't stop, they may get masked by these adaptations if not accounted for however.

 

[OldmanRob]

@ChestRockwell

Hello Chest,

I've seen a lot lately on deca dick. It seems that in most cases the doses were very high with both teat and deca.

I've also seen this theory pushed about test needing to be at a 2 to 1 ratio over deca.

Would a lower ratio like one to one and Lower doses of both test and deca be more advisable when trying to avoid deca dick.

The other thought I have is a TRT dose of test like 200 mg per week and a moderate dose of deca, like 300 or 400 mg per week is potentially safer due to lower aromitizing compounds.

 

[tenpoundsleft]

Related to @OldmanRob question about the test + deca combo, what would @ChestRockwell recommend as a longer term "cruise TRT cycle"? That's a serial misnomer, yes, but the objective is a TRT dose to keep the endocrine system happy, and then layer smaller amounts of one or several other compounds on top, for greater performance but done in a way to reduce longer-term negatives.

I know, nothing is free in life, everything comes with risk. No need to bash me for this.

For example - an approach with 150-200 test per week, with equal amounts (say 100-150 each) of deca, primo, maybe even tren added. Total gear load in the 500-650 range per week in this case. Is there a sweetspot like that?

 

[Wunderpus]

@ChestRockwell

Hello Chest,

I've seen a lot lately on deca dick. It seems that in most cases the doses were very high with both teat and deca.

I've also seen this theory pushed about test needing to be at a 2 to 1 ratio over deca.

Would a lower ratio like one to one and Lower doses of both test and deca be more advisable when trying to avoid deca dick.

The other thought I have is a TRT dose of test like 200 mg per week and a moderate dose of deca, like 300 or 400 mg per week is potentially safer due to lower aromitizing compounds.

$20 says I can guess what he'll say

But I'll let the man reply

 

[XmadXscientist]

Related to @OldmanRob question about the test + deca combo, what would @ChestRockwell recommend as a longer term "cruise TRT cycle"? That's a serial misnomer, yes, but the objective is a TRT dose to keep the endocrine system happy, and then layer smaller amounts of one or several other compounds on top, for greater performance but done in a way to reduce longer-term negatives.

I know, nothing is free in life, everything comes with risk. No need to bash me for this.

For example - an approach with 150-200 test per week, with equal amounts (say 100-150 each) of deca, primo, maybe even tren added. Total gear load in the 500-650 range per week in this case. Is there a sweetspot like that?

Not trying to be a dick here but if I were in your shoes I would take a step back and ask if all this crazy stuff you've done and are planning to do will accomplish more than a few hundred milligrams of test would have done.

 

[tenpoundsleft]

Not trying to be a dick here but if I were in your shoes I would take a step back and ask if all this crazy stuff you've done and are planning to do will accomplish more than a few hundred milligrams of test would have done.

Because if I layer on more test than TRT I start to aromatize, and I want a low maintenance model, with minimal sides, yet still an edge over plain TRT. And arguably, once you go past 200 per week, the benefits from test diminish - while other compounds start to shine, some with nice synergistic effects.

Pulling oil from a couple different vials isn't complicated.

 

[OldmanRob]

$20 says I can guess what he'll say

But I'll let the man reply

I'm open to whatever he says. Just trying to learn.

I'm also interested in your thoughts as well. I respect your opinion.

I'm reading a lot but I also like experienced input.

 

[XmadXscientist]

Pulling oil from a couple different vials isn't complicated.

No but apparently worrying about food, health, longevity, proper training regimens and food is.

Good luck in your quest brother.

 

[tenpoundsleft]

No but apparently worrying about food, health, longevity, proper training regimens and food is.

Good luck in your quest brother.

I'll keep it civil, since this is a proper thread - but you, Sir, have managed to cram your noggin up your rectum, well done, well done.

 

[ickyrica]

And arguably, once you go past 200 per week, the benefits from test diminish

when I went from half a gram to one gram per week I found the benefits to continue to shine brightly, imo

 

[tenpoundsleft]

when I went from half a gram to one gram per week I found the benefits to continue to shine brightly, imo

Of course there are benefits, but it's not the same massive change as when going from zero to 200.

(I'm a TRT user, so all my comments are in that context.)

And if test were so fantastic, we wouldn't have all these other compounds. Or all the threads about how to deal with the ever increasing sides? Right?

 

[ickyrica]

I can dig it from a trt perspective. The sides are minimal generally for me, pimples and torn ligaments lol. I think with people being very different with how their body reacts to test makes putting it into a one size fits all diacription is tough to do.

 

[tenpoundsleft]

I can dig it from a trt perspective. The sides are minimal generally for me, pimples and torn ligaments lol. I think with people being very different with how their body reacts to test makes putting it into a one size fits all diacription is tough to do.

If it were easy, I wouldn't ask @ChestRockwell

Don't know what he's come across when he's talked to more advanced long-term users - or his personal experience. My operating model is layering several compounds to get as many benefits as possible with as few sides and long-term negatives as I can.

 

[XmadXscientist]

View attachment 81149

I'll keep it civil, since this is a proper thread - but you, Sir, have managed to cram your noggin up your rectum, well done, well done.

Ok this is actually really fucking funny

Many of the coumpounds we use were made in attempts to create a superior version of testosterone and to get a leg up on competing countries. Others have created in attempts to formulate new medical options superior to then current options, and some have been created to circumvent AAS regulations and be sold as OTC supplements.

Not all of these creations are effective and safe. Some have been elevated to magical status occasionally and pushed as the hot new super hormone by those in need of a sales boost.

 

[Morefyah]

Because if I layer on more test than TRT I start to aromatize, and I want a low maintenance model, with minimal sides, yet still an edge over plain TRT. And arguably, once you go past 200 per week, the benefits from test diminish - while other compounds start to shine, some with nice synergistic effects.

Pulling oil from a couple different vials isn't complicated.

So you only get diminishing returns after 200 mg a week., lol good to know

 

[Eman]

Guys, please stop clogging up this thread.