6-month cruise on ~350mg Test E, questionable results? Looking for advice

[phenominal34]

substantiate your claim, nitwit

I don’t have to just read all around you idiot !!! Everyone else is saying the same thing as well.

 

[Golfis]

First of all, I would like to thank once again everyone for their time contributing to this thread. In order to keep the discussion flowing as smoothly as possible I would like to respond to all the comments received in a singular reply.

JulianB: Although I am aware that professional lifters do tend to compound quite a lot of substances, I think for my case it is probably not the most responsible step to take as in case something goes wrong I won't be able to judge which substance causes which side effect and I don't have a AAS specialist doctor to make the necessary adjustment on my behalf.

BlackBeard: I am not sure if that counts as a refeed but every Saturday I tend to increase my calories to up to ~2500 in order to incorporate social obligations. The comment I made was based on the observation that usually a 200~300 calorie increase from my current "cutting calories" (which would put me in maintenance level) does have a noticeable visual effect on the whole appearance side of things as well as recovery between sets. Apart from that my carb consumption I think is indeed reasonable so the usage of term "glycogen" in my previous reply might have not been appropriate. P.S. HCG prices are indeed more affordable than I originally thought.

LescoBrandon, hallomonde: Thank you for your comments. I do believe that for my current level advanced compounding might not be the most appropriate option. I do welcome any detailed input regarding dieting that I may have missed.

VenomYo: Thank you for your comment, although I am not 100% against increase dosing or combining compounds, I would prefer before that step to make sure I am doing everything correctly at my current level. As stated in my opening comment, even though I am cutting, the strength keeps increasing but even during the bulking phase I think the ratio of muscle to fat gain might have not been optimal and I would like some advice regarding that.

Run_GSD: Thank you the extensive comment. I have already read the articles you have listed in your response and that is why I feel there are still things that can be optimised before thinking of increasing dosages or number of compounds. As in any study there are both medians as well as outliers, I want to try and believe that I am not a hypo-responder but the results I have seen thus far tend to push me towards that direction. I would welcome any further advice you may have.

To conclude this reply, I would like everyone's opinion on the steps to take from now on. Regarding diet, I am planning to keep my calorie intake as it is since it seems to be effective until I drop to ~12% body fat and then reevaluate short and long term goals. As far as training is concerned, as long as I keep improving I do not think there is a reason to change volume or exercise selection but then again, any input is more than welcomed.

Finally regarding AAS usage. I am not sure but perhaps I didn't make myself clear in the first post so here it is once again. Currently I have slightly decreased my weekly dosage to 300mg (since by body weight has also decreased) but I haven't stopped. I want everyone's opinion on that. Should I keep going as long as my blood markers are within acceptable values or drop to 100-120mg for a few months and then evaluate once again what the next step should be?

As always, thank you for your time and valuable advice.

 

[crtx]

Christ man. test doesnt do jack diddly shit. even 2grams of test wont do much besides give you strength, massive water retention and moonpie face.

Go get some actual anabolics, tren/deca, primo/eq and some proper orals, anadrol/anavar/superdrol or some of the harsher sarms they work quite nicely aswell

Dont fuck around with test. its an oldschool mentality. I personally keep test as low as possible around 150mg/week and if i didnt need test to maintain my sexual function then i wouldnt be injecting test at all

BTW i didnt read your massive text but I know what test does and doesn't. Lower the dose, and introduce other better compounds into the mix, you'd be surprised.

what crap are you talking? test doesn't do shit all clueless comment.

Quit with the advice goes to show you in your "advice" that you need to run harsher compounds cause you know fk all about this game.

I guess your one of those low test high DHT "AI" is the devil generation?

Who needs to pop orals for gains?

 

[Blang]

Christ man. test doesnt do jack diddly shit. even 2grams of test wont do much besides give you strength, massive water retention and moonpie face.

Okay, for starters, ignore anything this person says.

As far as the rest of your situation, rather than try to give you an exact plan, I'll lay out how I would approach this if you were a new client:

- Since you never really had a TRT phase (which I would have done), I'd diet you down to 10-12% while finding a good bodybuilder "cruise" or "TRT+" level of testosterone.

- Take a HARD, HARD look at your training. Every client claims they train hard, go to failure, etc. less than 10-15% actually do. Regardless, form videos/corrections/mind muscle connection assessments would have to be made.

- Assess neurosteroid concentrations and adjust as needed.

- Look hard into GH and/or GH secretagogues depending on your age and response.

- Obviously take a very hard look at diet/sleep/etc. Dial in *all* supplementation across all vectors, etc.

- Eventually put you into a bulk, escalating doses as necessary. No way of knowing, but I'm betting you wouldn't need to get over 600-700mg for a long long time. This isn't set remotely in stone however.

I know there's not a lot of specifics or details there, but that's the general approach. And trust me, as much as everyone likes to give a simple, singular answer, IME it never works that way.

A lot of times someone is having "disappointing results", you can find 1 or 2 huge movers that are clearly the issue, but more often than not, once you go through and dial everything in from scratch (no matter how small), you start to see rapid progress and it's some combination of half a dozen or a dozen things adding up and you don't always even know what made the biggest difference, and what may have made little to no diff.

Good luck!

 

[VenomYo]

Powerlifters. Yikes. I now see the error of my ways, why did i try to reason with powerfats. My bad fellas

 

[Blang]

Powerlifters. Yikes. I now see the error of my ways, why did i try to reason with powerfats. My bad fellas

Dafuq did you get Powerlifters out of anything in this thread?

You literally just invented that in your head so you could dismiss reality. Congrats.

 

[Oliver 7]

Please explain how test “doesn’t do shit” please explain how test only affects strength and won’t (with the correct) dose in a surplus. As well as a dialed in hypertrophy put on mass.


There is nothing test can’t do for you. It is literally the most studied AAS on the planet. The idea that 2g of test won’t do anything is asinine and laughable. Sure tren is stronger and has better nutrient partitioning, but is fucking toxic. Are you saying Deca doesn’t cause water retention? You suggested it. Are you saying Primo is more anabolic than testosterone? As you recommended that as well. If you are you are really that worried about a bit of water because mOoN FaCe while throwing away years of success and safety of testosterone. Maybe this isn’t for you and longevity Isn’t a concern.

Just as important as testosterone is, the ratio of testosterone to Estrogen is equally important.

It’s neurologically protective as well as cardio protective. It also reduces the risk of injury.

I’m not saying tren doesn’t have its place. If you enter a contest prep you most definitely need it. That and most of these other compounds are unnecessary in the recreational lifters toolbox.

It’s the equivalent of telling a fatty that they need DNP to loose weight.

@Golfis

For the average recreational lifter. Testosterone more than enough with a great safety profile that we have spend a shit time studying.

Bulking, Cutting, Recomp. Testosterone will work wonders for all of these if you eat and train for it.

Estrogens and Cardiovascular Disease in the Male | Revista Española de Cardiología

To the Editor:The role of estrogens in the prevention of cardiovascular disease is currently of particular interest. Recently, Wenger1

www.revespcardiol.org

Unravelling the cardioprotective mechanism of action of estrogens

See article by Xu et al.[1](pages 836–844) in this issue.

academic.oup.com

Google Scholar

scholar.google.ca

Minireview: Neuroprotective Effects of Estrogen—New Insights into Mechanisms of Action

Abstract. An accumulating body of evidence clearly establishes that estradiol is a potent neuroprotective and neurotrophic factor in the adult: it influenc

academic.oup.com

Google Scholar

scholar.google.ca

Frontiers | Effect of Estrogen on Musculoskeletal Performance and Injury Risk

Estrogen has a dramatic effect on musculoskeletal function. Beyond the known relationship between estrogen and bone, it directly affects the structure and fu...

www.frontiersin.org

Wow.good reply man , I couldn't believe that he wrote that shit.lol.wtf

 

[narta]

Should I keep going as long as my blood markers are within acceptable values or drop to 100-120mg for a few months and then evaluate once again what the next step should be?

Give your body a break and drop to true trt levels. It will put you on the upper end of range and still let your body get rid the extra burden of the cycle. After two months, draw bloods and if everything is within range and you FEEL good too, titrate up the test and maybe add a second compound. Steer away from orals, deca/npp, eq or primo/mast are all excellent choices depending your goals, that is nandrolones/eq for size primo/mast for cut.

 

[Stevenyoung181818]

people now cruise on 350mg? lol is that the norm now

 

[shartking]

people now cruise on 350mg? lol is that the norm now

Yes, people cruise on that. Not very bright people....

 

[Malevolent666]

Hi everyone, long time reader first time poster.

I have tried to educate myself as much as I can and tried various things but I think that I am reaching a point were assistance from more knowledgable people would be beneficial.

Here is a link with my new-member introductory post that might perhaps answer some of your questions.
Long time reader, new member

Long before started lifting for unrelated reasons I tested my total testosterone and came out at about 320ng/dl. At the time the doctor recommended to do additional tests since it seemed low for my age (but within their reference range), but I wasn't really concerned since at that time and couldn't identify any obvious physical side effects that might come with low testosterone concentration.

Approximately 1 year ago I did extensive blood work (as a natural) twice and the total testosterone averaged at around 400 ng/dl, with E2 at 41pg/ml and Free testosterone at 110pg/ml. Also tested T3, T4, TSH and were all within normal values.

Approximately 6-months ago I have decided to enter the enhanced weightlifting scene and by fully understanding the risks that might come along with it, see and experience first hand the effects of additional testosterone in my body. The initial plan was to run a 350mg test e cycle (pinning twice a week) for 20 weeks while on a caloric surplus and after the cycle continue injecting somewhere around 100-125mg per week in order to be at the high end of natural test production (initially planned to confirm this through blood tests).

About my stats: 9/22 starting weight 72.2kg 13-15% body fat(picture taken at the end of 9/22).
Max weight before starting cutting (12/22) 76.3kg body fat at end of 11/22 definitely >15%
Current (02/23) body weight 74.3kg body fat about the same as starting point

Currently eating at about 2300-2400 calories at 171cm tall which results in about 1kg weight loss per month. Although I have been using calorie tracking apps for a very long time, right after reaching peak body weight I have been really meticulous not only in counting every single eating portion and calorie but also trying to maintain as stable of a lifestyle as possible in order to keep my TDEE as stable as possible.

As far as macros are concerned, at my current body weight I am eating about 150grams protein, 280grams carbohydrates and 75grams fat. (there are slight fluctuations on daily basis and thus here I am presenting average values)

Lifts both during the cut and bulk have been slowly but steadily increasing at a rate of 2.5~5kg per week.

Currents stats (5-rep max) for 5 sets on the main lifts:
Bench press: 110kg
Seating overhead press: 70kg
Squat: 142.5kg
Weighted chin-ups: Bodyweight+35kg

During the bulking phase my lifting routine was more strength-focused than anything else, consisting of doing a PPL split 5-6 times per week. Working every each muscle group for about 16 sets per week. On each training day I would do two exercise variation of 5x5 to failure on each set and then 3-4 additional exercises of 8-12 and 12-15 reps of RPE 8+ as an accessory. During the current cutting phase, the accessory portion has stayed pretty much the same but instead of doing 5x5 at the begging of each workout I am now doing 2 exercises with 6sets of 8-12 reps going to failure on every set when I can only do 8 reps and slightly decreasing the intensity when I am able to do 12-reps at RPE 1 right before increase the weight for the next month. I might add around here that sleeping could definitely be improved since I am only able to do 6-7 hours on a weekday and about 8 on weekends (but I cannot change that since I am trying to achieve certain career goals in the near future).

Although strength has increased quite a lot during this 6-month journey my appearance hasn't changed all that much. Initially, while trying to troubleshoot what was wrong I thought that perhaps the testosterone I was injecting was underused or fake. (In my country possession and usage of steroids is legal, but require a prescription or importing a "small" amount appropriate for personal usage. For that reason there are many Men's health clinic which provide almost any steroid for quite a substantial fee).

A month ago I did blood work and the results are as follows:
T3, T4, TSH within normal values,
Free testosterone (There was a miss communication and I did not get Total range) 81pg/ml lab scale is 7.6~23.8pg/ml
E2 81pg/dl (19-51pg/ml)
Prolactin 19.25ng/ml (3.58-12.78ng/ml)
LDL, HDL, RBC count, and basically every other metric within normal values.
I did not test for FSH, FH and SHGB.

For side effects I had (have?) some acne breakout in my back and chest but nothing too serious and was quickly handled by using some local cream and anti-bacterial soap. Libido and mental side of things as normal. I need to mentioned that I have been taking dutasteride since the age of 24 in order to combat hair loss that runs in the family.

My question for the experts is what should I do from here on out in terms of dieting and supplementation? My goal would be to ideally go less than 12% body fat and then lean bulk until I reach ~80kg. As mentioned in the beginning I am willing to accept reasonable health risks.

Thank you for the time reading through all this. I will appreciate any comments and guidance.

For what it's worth, I'm a big fan of mixing the 5x5 compound exercises with 8-12 rep exercises. I enjoy getting the best of both worlds.

 

[Xplicit]

Give your body a break and drop to true trt levels. It will put you on the upper end of range and still let your body get rid the extra burden of the cycle. After two months, draw bloods and if everything is within range and you FEEL good too, titrate up the test and maybe add a second compound. Steer away from orals, deca/npp, eq or primo/mast are all excellent choices depending your goals, that is nandrolones/eq for size primo/mast for cut.

There have been a few posts like this but quoting this one.

Thats it, no magic, ^ that simple. I think majority of us here would agree with this, I personally would tell you to hold your 300mg dose and finish your cut first but do it more aggressively (drop your calories and wrap it up faster) and then 2-month cruise (get bloodwork, dont be lazy, do this at minimum in-between blasts).

After the cruise, add Mast or EQ or Deca (start with NPP until you know how you respond to Deca, trust me) dealers choice (mast in my opinion being the safer "next step" even though I have a hard on for EQ) and get your test dose up.

500mg Test 3-400mg Mast or EQ or Deca.

If you are over 30, get the HGH in there 4-6 iu a day (plenty of quality generic options nowadays), keep it in there long term and be mindful of your blood sugar levels.

Thats it, from there you decide where to go but ^ will keep you happy for the next 6-12 months.

Edit - DAMNET @Malevolent666 got me. Why the bump on an 8-month-old thread?

 

[ackmack78]

Hi everyone, long time reader first time poster.

I have tried to educate myself as much as I can and tried various things but I think that I am reaching a point were assistance from more knowledgable people would be beneficial.

Here is a link with my new-member introductory post that might perhaps answer some of your questions.
Long time reader, new member

Long before started lifting for unrelated reasons I tested my total testosterone and came out at about 320ng/dl. At the time the doctor recommended to do additional tests since it seemed low for my age (but within their reference range), but I wasn't really concerned since at that time and couldn't identify any obvious physical side effects that might come with low testosterone concentration.

Approximately 1 year ago I did extensive blood work (as a natural) twice and the total testosterone averaged at around 400 ng/dl, with E2 at 41pg/ml and Free testosterone at 110pg/ml. Also tested T3, T4, TSH and were all within normal values.

Approximately 6-months ago I have decided to enter the enhanced weightlifting scene and by fully understanding the risks that might come along with it, see and experience first hand the effects of additional testosterone in my body. The initial plan was to run a 350mg test e cycle (pinning twice a week) for 20 weeks while on a caloric surplus and after the cycle continue injecting somewhere around 100-125mg per week in order to be at the high end of natural test production (initially planned to confirm this through blood tests).

About my stats: 9/22 starting weight 72.2kg 13-15% body fat(picture taken at the end of 9/22).
Max weight before starting cutting (12/22) 76.3kg body fat at end of 11/22 definitely >15%
Current (02/23) body weight 74.3kg body fat about the same as starting point

Currently eating at about 2300-2400 calories at 171cm tall which results in about 1kg weight loss per month. Although I have been using calorie tracking apps for a very long time, right after reaching peak body weight I have been really meticulous not only in counting every single eating portion and calorie but also trying to maintain as stable of a lifestyle as possible in order to keep my TDEE as stable as possible.

As far as macros are concerned, at my current body weight I am eating about 150grams protein, 280grams carbohydrates and 75grams fat. (there are slight fluctuations on daily basis and thus here I am presenting average values)

Lifts both during the cut and bulk have been slowly but steadily increasing at a rate of 2.5~5kg per week.

Currents stats (5-rep max) for 5 sets on the main lifts:
Bench press: 110kg
Seating overhead press: 70kg
Squat: 142.5kg
Weighted chin-ups: Bodyweight+35kg

During the bulking phase my lifting routine was more strength-focused than anything else, consisting of doing a PPL split 5-6 times per week. Working every each muscle group for about 16 sets per week. On each training day I would do two exercise variation of 5x5 to failure on each set and then 3-4 additional exercises of 8-12 and 12-15 reps of RPE 8+ as an accessory. During the current cutting phase, the accessory portion has stayed pretty much the same but instead of doing 5x5 at the begging of each workout I am now doing 2 exercises with 6sets of 8-12 reps going to failure on every set when I can only do 8 reps and slightly decreasing the intensity when I am able to do 12-reps at RPE 1 right before increase the weight for the next month. I might add around here that sleeping could definitely be improved since I am only able to do 6-7 hours on a weekday and about 8 on weekends (but I cannot change that since I am trying to achieve certain career goals in the near future).

Although strength has increased quite a lot during this 6-month journey my appearance hasn't changed all that much. Initially, while trying to troubleshoot what was wrong I thought that perhaps the testosterone I was injecting was underused or fake. (In my country possession and usage of steroids is legal, but require a prescription or importing a "small" amount appropriate for personal usage. For that reason there are many Men's health clinic which provide almost any steroid for quite a substantial fee).

A month ago I did blood work and the results are as follows:
T3, T4, TSH within normal values,
Free testosterone (There was a miss communication and I did not get Total range) 81pg/ml lab scale is 7.6~23.8pg/ml
E2 81pg/dl (19-51pg/ml)
Prolactin 19.25ng/ml (3.58-12.78ng/ml)
LDL, HDL, RBC count, and basically every other metric within normal values.
I did not test for FSH, FH and SHGB.

For side effects I had (have?) some acne breakout in my back and chest but nothing too serious and was quickly handled by using some local cream and anti-bacterial soap. Libido and mental side of things as normal. I need to mentioned that I have been taking dutasteride since the age of 24 in order to combat hair loss that runs in the family.

My question for the experts is what should I do from here on out in terms of dieting and supplementation? My goal would be to ideally go less than 12% body fat and then lean bulk until I reach ~80kg. As mentioned in the beginning I am willing to accept reasonable health risks.

Thank you for the time reading through all this. I will appreciate any comments and guidance.

It's kind of hard to follow what you're saying with weight. But did you start your 350mg/Wk cycle at 72 kilos and end your cycle at 76 kilos?

 

[lukiss96]

No results naturally = no decent results on Testosterone + water retention = soft and bloated, somewhat bigger.

That's why it's important to nail the basics and get your results naturally first and maybe then use steroids to advance, not out of desperation because you think nothinh works.