MESO-Rx Exclusive Is Growth Hormone Truly a Fountain of Youth?

[ChestRockwell]

Criminal of the FDA to deny us access - would you agree?

My personal belief is that the US government dictating what its citizens can and cannot place in their bodies is unconstitutional. That is something that should be mandated on the state level, if at all (10th Amendment).

I've always wondered why it took an actual amendment to the constitution (back in 1919) to make alcohol illegal, yet no such amendments have ever been ratified for drugs?

It is a slippery slope, in my eyes, because if the federal government of the US can mandate what can and cannot be placed into their citizen's bodies then where does it stop?

Not to mention the vast amounts of money wasted on the "war on drugs", people having their lives ruined for non-violent crimes, and the rise of many cartels and criminal elements...

 

[ChestRockwell]

So, from the above prospective, what constitutes "otherwise healthy individuals"?

Precisely, and that is why I was very careful to avoid using more specific terminology.

Current testing methods often rely upon serum blood markers, however something I plan to touch on in my next article, is that this may be a very incomplete way of determining if one is needing HRT (and what dose they should be prescribed).

Using population based studies can often find averages and means, but there are often a lot of other variables at play...

 

[Docd187123]

IMO, it's more along the lines of countering the effects of aging versus trying to counter aging itself.

In which case it makes the title of this article even more true

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/15215267/

 

[Docd187123]

Immortality simply means "live forever". If, however, instead of living forever (lets leave this crap for Zuckerberg, Page, Schmidt, Bezos and gang) one have main goal not only to keep essential hormones on optimal for the appropriate age range, but maintain balance as healthy 20 years old body would do naturally, the "miracle" of slowing down the clock will happen without been ridiculed for "pursuit of immortality".

There is nothing random in the fact that body parts are wearing off and eventually stop serving its purpose. After all, the purpose of life is... to die. This is how modern human was genetically engineered: "In our image and our likeness", if you subscribe to Zecharia Sitchin translation of ancient Sumerian tablets... Anyway...

One might look anti-aging as numbers only - hormone levels, body fat etc. For me, as I said on another occasion, it is entering this special mental state where the refusal to accept "you're getting old and there is nothing you can do about it" leads to life changing choices we make. Now the "numbers" above are are just small (albeit very important) part of the whole picture.

So if everyone is able to make their own definition for anti-aging then what purpose does it serve to define it to begin with?

How would you expect essential hormones to be maintained in an age specific appropriate range and then follow that up with “as healthy 20yo bodies do”? That’s contradictory.

There is nothing you can do to stop getting old. Balancing hormonal levels and taking other drugs may ameliorate symptoms but that neither prevents you from getting older nor, in most cases, affects mortality rates. Taking HGH and TRT might make you feel better but they will not prevent you from aging whatsoever nor will TRT for example allow you to live a longer life (longer not immortal).

If your definition of anti-aging is simply to maintain balance like a healthy 20yo then would you consider lisinopril for example as an anti-aging Med?

 

[Eman]

In which case it makes the title of this article even more true

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/15215267/

I think it's being a little picky with the semantics personally... There is no fountain of youth, that term is clickbait more than anything.

Anti aging has a little bit of a better ring to it than "anti external signs of aging" though.

I haven't read the whole article just yet, sorry Chest, mostly because I don't personally believe GH is the fountain of youth... I've used quite a bit of it. With that said, IME I would say it definitely has potential to slow down symtoms that are normally associated with getting older.

 

[DragoT]

How would you expect essential hormones to be maintained in an age specific appropriate range and then follow that up with “as healthy 20yo bodies do”? That’s contradictory.

No, it is not. 20y old healthy male maintain naturally hormonal balance with little to no efford. Testosterone is high, Estrogen is normal, body fat is normal to low, HGH production is "normal for that age", IGF-1 "normal as well". Again, I am talking about healthy subject who does not abuse drugs and/or alcohol, spends 12 hours gaming and lives on junk food.

Let me refer again to the following table (this is one of many that can be found on Internet).



Take for example the Median column. Average for <25y old would be around 700ng/dl. If a male in his 50ies registers in the low 5% (289ng/dl), according the new reference range of LabCorp (264-916ng/dl) that level is "just fine" regardless of the fact it is devastatingly low, would you agree? I am asking you because you are here on bodybuilding forum and you are well aware of the importance of Testosterone in male physique and psych. Bringing it to artificially high number would be abuse, we all (cough cough) would agree How would you describe raising it to 600 or even better - 700ng/dl? This will be equal to median level for 25y old group but below the high 95th % of his (50-54y old) age group. Will you still label this "pursuit of immortality" or an attempt to improve quality of life?

There is nothing you can do to stop getting old. Balancing hormonal levels and taking other drugs may ameliorate symptoms but that neither prevents you from getting older nor, in most cases, affects mortality rates. Taking HGH and TRT might make you feel better but they will not prevent you from aging whatsoever nor will TRT for example allow you to live a longer life (longer not immortal).

Where or when did I say anti-aging equals living longer??? Living better, that's for sure.

Lastly, your example about lisinopril is just... lame. Lisinopril is an angiotensin converting enzyme (ACE) inhibitor used for treating high blood pressure, heart failure and for preventing kidney failure due to high blood pressure and diabetes.

I am sorry, but this is the same reason one do not do chemo because might get cancer at some point in his life.

 

[Docd187123]

No, it is not. 20y old healthy male maintain naturally hormonal balance with little to no efford. Testosterone is high, Estrogen is normal, body fat is normal to low, HGH production is "normal for that age", IGF-1 "normal as well". Again, I am talking about healthy subject who does not abuse drugs and/or alcohol, spends 12 hours gaming and lives on junk food.

Let me refer again to the following table (this is one of many that can be found on Internet).

View attachment 84757

Take for example the Median column. Average for <25y old would be around 700ng/dl. If a male in his 50ies registers in the low 5% (289ng/dl), according the new reference range of LabCorp (264-916ng/dl) that level is "just fine" regardless of the fact it is devastatingly low, would you agree? I am asking you because you are here on bodybuilding forum and you are well aware of the importance of Testosterone in male physique and psych. Bringing it to artificially high number would be abuse, we all (cough cough) would agree How would you describe raising it to 600 or even better - 700ng/dl? This will be equal to median level for 25y old group but below the high 95th % of his (50-54y old) age group. Will you still label this "pursuit of immortality" or an attempt to improve quality of life?

Can you post the reference to your little table? And let me be the first to tell you that it’s a crock of shit lol. This is how marketing companies win. They get people like you to fall for this stuff.

Where or when did I say anti-aging equals living longer??? Living better, that's for sure.

Aging is the process that ends life, it’s an almost universally accepted belief in the scientific world. So follow that train of thought and continue it on with ANTI-aging. So now your subjective definition of anti aging is simply to live better? Shit, my paycheck helps me live better. Brownies make life worth living. Sex makes living better. According to your definition now these are all anti aging protocols lol.

Lastly, your example about lisinopril is just... lame. Lisinopril is an angiotensin converting enzyme (ACE) inhibitor used for treating high blood pressure, heart failure and for preventing kidney failure due to high blood pressure and diabetes.

I am sorry, but this is the same reason one do not do chemo because might get cancer at some point in his life.

Did I say you should take lisinopril for FUTURE hypertension? No I didn’t so don’t create a straw man argument bc you will fail.

Apparently you missed the point of the lisinopril example lol but that’s to be expected bc you are shifting and twisting the accepted definition from what it is to WHAT YOU WANT IT TO BE. It’s no wonder you’re doing so though after reading your other thread

 

[growfrance]

Yes, this sums is nicely, but let's expand on it a little. The key phrase is "naturally lower hormone levels". We, here, all know what LabCorp did:

View attachment 84750
Here is the link to the entire document: Link

This fact (ref range change) can be interpreted many different ways, but let's take it for face value - this is what world wide study found to be the norm at present time. I would accept this "fact" (that declining levels are natural evolution) only if coupled with extended study where the same test subjects registers same score of "quality of life" as the previous studies(s) where the old ref range was established. Oh wait, quality of life was not scored back then either. Yeah, quality of life is not medical diagnose.

So, from the above prospective, what constitutes "otherwise healthy individuals"? You are 25y old male, you go to a doctor and say "My life sucks, I can't achieve/maintain erection, energy level is just enough to get by throughout the day etc..." The doctor looks the Testosterone level - 270 (264-916) and say "According
group of professional associations, government agencies, and commercial entities your testosterone is fine, here is a pill to make you "feel" better about the fact you life sucks..."

.

Although a bit offtopic I have to say that this is 100% accurate. Story of my life and many other guys... Fuck drs

 

[Rockclimber]

I would love to see a peer-reviewed study on the effects of growth hormone and injury repair time. Anecdotally it's all over the boards... growth hormone is used to "speed up" recovery time from tendon and/or muscle injurys. I've always wondered how true this could be or if it could even be replicated in a study. There is that study on how nandrolone speeds up knee replacement rehab, I'd like to see something similar with growth hormone.

 

[DragoT]

And let me be the first to tell you that it’s a crock of shit lol. This is how marketing companies win. They get people like you to fall for this stuff.

Ughm, NO. I am not failing for this shit again.

Can we agree on one thing? You go to your paycheck, brownies and sex, and I will continue my anti-aging protocol (i.e. whatever makes us happy) and the world will be a wonderful place without all negativity that is about to erupt.

We can even pretend Hillary won the election... Imagine the bliss...

Peace out!

 

[Docd187123]

Ughm, NO. I am not failing for this shit again.

Can we agree on one thing? You go to your paycheck, brownies and sex, and I will continue my anti-aging protocol (i.e. whatever makes us happy) and the world will be a wonderful place without all negativity that is about to erupt.

We can even pretend Hillary won the election... Imagine the bliss...

Peace out!

Unfortunately we cannot. You're free to continue your protocol to appease yourself but calling it anti-aging is a farce that I will continually call out.

 

[tenpoundsleft]

Unfortunately we cannot. You're free to continue your protocol to appease yourself but calling it anti-aging is a farce that I will continually call out.

Look, you're so alone, and so extreme in your definition as to completely isolate yourself..

As I said before, you're like a person insisting that we can't call anything black because it doesn't perfectly absorb all light, which only true theoretical black does.

Stemcell therapy is on my list, which is even better than HGH. Anti-aging to all but you.

 

[tenpoundsleft]

Ughm, NO. I am not failing for this shit again.

Can we agree on one thing? You go to your paycheck, brownies and sex, and I will continue my anti-aging protocol (i.e. whatever makes us happy) and the world will be a wonderful place without all negativity that is about to erupt.

We can even pretend Hillary won the election... Imagine the bliss...

Peace out!

Hillary and bliss - in one sentence? And about anti-aging? That's both contradictory and ironic.

 

[Docd187123]

Look, you're so alone, and so extreme in your definition as to completely isolate yourself..

As I said before, you're like a person insisting that we can't call anything black because it doesn't perfectly absorb all light, which only true theoretical black does.

Stemcell therapy is on my list, which is even better than HGH. Anti-aging to all but you.

I'm alone in my "extreme" stance? Funny bc it seems like my stance is the one supported by the medical community while each of you have your own different subjective definition of the word but whatever allows you to sleep at night.

 

[ChestRockwell]

I would love to see a peer-reviewed study on the effects of growth hormone and injury repair time. Anecdotally it's all over the boards... growth hormone is used to "speed up" recovery time from tendon and/or muscle injurys. I've always wondered how true this could be or if it could even be replicated in a study.

I actually forgot I started writing an article on this very topic...I'm too easily distracted

 

[Rockclimber]

I actually forgot I started writing an article on this very topic...I'm too easily distracted

Now that is something I am looking forard to. I pulled a muscle deadlifting about 5 weeks ago and was out of the gym for 4 weeks. Worst injury in my life to date. No more personal records deadlifting on gear!
I'm very interested in the abilities of GH to repair tendons/muscle quicker. I've used GH for 8 months before at 4.5 iu a day and it seemed, anecdotally at least, to heal my previous injuries. I am about to run 5iu a day for 10 months, 3 months of pharma and 7 months of black market. The black market is from the largest producer in China and has a stellar record on Alibaba with over 11 years of operation. Will be testing several different ways and reporting here. I just ordered 1500 international units from them so I hope it goes well.

 

[master.on]

@ChestRockwell
so GH only confers some (mild) anti-aging benefits if supplied to match a 20-something natural level.
More than that is actually detrimental to health.

Did I get the article right?

 

[DragoT]

I think the term "anti-aging" used here is not by any means the correct term to describe positive (or not) effect of HRT as a whole.

There is only one "true" indicator of age - our birth certificate. If @ironwill1951 (forgive me to use you as an example, but you are near perfect specimen to refer to) decide to retire in two years, the Social Security Administration will check for eligibility - 40 credits and if he reached retirement age. The person processing the paperwork will not evaluate his muscle mass, body fat and general looks and reject the application because "he does not look old enough", nor will ask "Do you feel old" and make decision based on his answer.

I guess I should have started with this statement when threw in the term in this thread and it went haywire...

No procedure, treatment or living style can stop the clock. I've started HRT in 2016 (at 54) and today I am 56, regardless of all this "balancing" mantra I keep talking about. And I will be 57 next January, no matter what I do...

There is, however, the legitimate attempt to slow down the natural aging process in terms of physical appearance and overall quality of life. Yes, brownies can make one happy. Sex - more so. Hell, giving to charity also makes one's life fulfilled... But we are here on this board to discuss physical appearance, aren't we? Otherwise why healthy male or woman will resort to Performance Enhancement Drugs if not to enhance the physique which same individuals not on PED do not have? Lifting three or four times what average person can lift gives a bodybuilder satisfaction which for average person is unknown or unjustified. Does this makes a bodybuilder "crazy" for taking enormous amount of hormones? Not at all! It contributes to his "quality of life" score card, along with pay check and brownies and sex (not punt intended, just facts of life).

Ask my wife if she was happy at age 47, overweight and living with perimenopause symptoms. Ask the same question today at 50, 132LB, 19% BF and period on the clock. And for her, the quality of life do not measure in pounds, but the absence of hot flashes, night sweats, anxiety, mood swings, irritability and depression. As I've said before, no telling if HGH, diet, weight loss or all of the above contributed to the reversal. She don't' care! What she cares about is the fact (whatever it is) bought her few more years of happiness.

Similar for me - for already 18 months I still look like my profile picture, libido is where (i guess) 56 y old's should be, feeling guilty if have to skip gym because got tied late with a customer... With other words, there is a way to make life more satisfactory by balancing (not enhancing) the essential hormones.

So, y'all been young, do not judge elderly for the pursuit of few more years of happiness and quality of life. Next time when go on attack and ridicule, look your birth certificate and remember... Memento mori...

 

[ChestRockwell]

so GH only confers some (mild) anti-aging benefits if supplied to match a 20-something natural level.
More than that is actually detrimental to health.

Did I get the article right?

Yes, there is a give and take, or as I stated in the article...

GH replacement has the potential for both positive and negative pathological effects as it relates to aging, and age-related disease prevention. In essence, there are going to be “tradeoffs” between somatic growth, quality of life, reproductive potential, and longevity.

 

[Michael Scally MD]

[OA] Lessons from Growth Hormone Receptor Gene Disrupted Mice: Are There Benefits of Endocrine Defects?

Growth hormone (GH) is produced primarily by anterior pituitary somatotroph cells. Numerous acute human (h) GH treatment and long-term follow-up studies and extensive use of animal models of GH action have shaped the body of GH research over the past 40-50 years.

Work on the GH receptor (R) knock-out (GHRKO) mice and results of studies on GH resistant Laron Syndrome (LS) patients have helped define many physiological actions of GH including those dealing with metabolism, obesity, cancer, diabetes, cognition, and aging/longevity.

In this review, we have discussed several issues dealing with these biological effects of GH and attempt to answer the question of whether decreased GH action may be beneficial.

Basu R, Qian Y, Kopchick JJ. MECHANISMS IN ENDOCRINOLOGY: Lessons from growth hormone receptor gene disrupted mice: Are there benefits of endocrine defects? European journal of endocrinology 2018. http://www.eje-online.org/content/early/2018/02/19/EJE-18-0018.abstract