Opinion on this cycle ?

[matz]

Hello guys, we all know it is very hard or even impossible to bulk and cut in the same cycle but i was thinking of doing Something a bit different.
Does anyone tried to Bulk then going to recomp by switching diet of course and switching AAS choices and dosage during cycle ?

Lets say someone's maintenance is around 2800 cals

Lets say he start tren E/test E with higher test than tren (400 test/200tren) for first 5 week with DBOL kickstart on 3000 cals first week upping 100 cals everyweek to end the dbol at 3500 cals on week 5

After that, lowering 100 cals every week and at the same time up your tren dosage and lower your test by 50 each week (why not adding also anavar now)

week 6 350 test 250tren 3400 cal
week 7 300 test 300 tren 3300 cal
week 8 250 test 350 tren 3200 cal
week 9 200 test 400 tren 3100 cal
week 10 stay at whatever low test get you great feeling and keep boosting the tren

Logically as your maintenance went higher (plus amazing tren recomp effect) you should have a great recomp after your first weeks bulking .

What do you guys think about that ?

 

[MaskedLiberty]

You're making this harder than it needs to be...

I would suggest 200 cals over maintenance, high bioavalibility food.(second part is key)

You will build muscle....then add cardio say 15 min morning and after last meal to keep the metabolic rate up, not necessarily anything crazy cardio wise.... just keep that food processing.

I would keep dosage the same throughout, finish with var and make sure you have something to keep the estro and water under control.

 

[matz]

You're making this harder than it needs to be...

I would suggest 200 cals over maintenance, high bioavalibility food.(second part is key)

You will build muscle....then add cardio say 15 min morning and after last meal to keep the metabolic rate up, not necessarily anything crazy cardio wise.... just keep that food processing.

I would keep dosage the same throughout, finish with var and make sure you have something to keep the estro and water under control.

You are just telling me to do a basic recomp... idc if it's hard I didn't say i wanted something easy but something optimal.
Thanks for replying tho

 

[matz]

Here is my point, low tren dbol + high test = awesome for lean mass bulking, high tren low test + var = awesome for recomp/fat loss, by slowly switching them and switching your diet it will be the optimal cycle everyone is looking for "bulking and loosing fat at once" without any brutal change , also no need to "solidify gains" or anything since you decrease cal very slowly and upping the tren will turn you into a bigger monster than you already were anyway

 

[MaskedLiberty]

You are just telling me to do a basic recomp... idc if it's hard I didn't say i wanted something easy but something optimal.
Thanks for replying tho

I meant complicated, not hard. I would start off lower test/higher tren and run throughout.(notice, I said I would, if I could ) The basis of losing fat and gaining muscle will come from diet and training primarily. That being said, most of life is an experiment, give it a run. I'd love to follow the log.

 

[matz]

I meant complicated, not hard. I would start off lower test/higher tren and run throughout.(notice, I said I would, if I could ) The basis of losing fat and gaining muscle will come from diet and training primarily. That being said, most of life is an experiment, give it a run. I'd love to follow the log.

I see a lot of people struggling putting on weight with tren higher than test this is why I thought starting low tren to get the weight in was a better idea. Thank for your input brother. A log ? Why not if more people would like to see it

 

[MaskedLiberty]

I see a lot of people struggling putting on weight with tren higher than test this is why I thought starting low tren to get the weight in was a better idea. Thank for your input brother. A log ? Why not if more people would like to see it

Do you know where/why tren was originated? You should have no issues putting on lean size with any amounts of tren. Although some folks do have a repressed appetite from it. I'll re-emphasize that it is diet and training are the biggest keys.

What are your stats, exp, previous cycle, years lifting, BF%, pics?

 

[matz]

Yes, I know it is supposed to be the "cals in vs cals out" but I actually think that we can't use this principle on tren to a certain extent. I think tren's effect on nutrient absorption efficiency are a bit more mysterious than we tend to believe. 22YO 85 kilos 11% bf (used to be 97kg 15% before injury) no pic as my tattoo is easely recognized, previous cycle test e 600mg only , 2nd mix tren/test/mast for cutting and ive been playing with dnp a bit

 

[MaskedLiberty]

At 22, I'd train hard as a mother fucker, eat the same and do this for about 5-8 more years before any//more cycles. Of course that is just a personal opinion again. Nice work on the cut!

 

[Wunderpus]

Here is my point, low tren dbol + high test = awesome for lean mass bulking, high tren low test + var = awesome for recomp/fat loss, by slowly switching them and switching your diet it will be the optimal cycle everyone is looking for "bulking and loosing fat at once" without any brutal change , also no need to "solidify gains" or anything since you decrease cal very slowly and upping the tren will turn you into a bigger monster than you already were anyway

I've done it... Go 10% above (max) your maintenance cals on training days, and maintenance cals on "off" days... It takes a lot harder work in the gym, but it can be done. I've changed bf% and had minimal scale change prior. The drugs are secondary, I wouldn't focus as much on "X of Y compound, Z of A compound, etc. etc." and more on diet and hard training in order to accomplish this goal. Look at guys like John Meadows, it CAN be done.

 

[matz]

I've done it... Go 10% above (max) your maintenance cals on training days, and maintenance cals on "off" days... It takes a lot harder work in the gym, but it can be done. I've changed bf% and had minimal scale change prior. The drugs are secondary, I wouldn't focus as much on "X of Y compound, Z of A compound, etc. etc." and more on diet and hard training in order to accomplish this goal. Look at guys like John Meadows, it CAN be done.

Once again I know it would make a great recomp this way, maybe carb cycling would be an even better approach, but I am more looking for more Muscle gains, I assuming the recomp have been great for you but how much lean mass do you think you've put on? What about the strength gains ? And what was your cycle exactly bro ?Thank you

 

[Wunderpus]

Once again I know it would make a great recomp this way, maybe carb cycling would be an even better approach, but I am more looking for more Muscle gains, I assuming the recomp have been great for you but how much lean mass do you think you've put on? What about the strength gains ? And what was your cycle exactly bro ?Thank you

Honestly, if I put on 3-5lbs of real muscle in mass gaining phase, I'm thrilled. I probably put on about that of muscle in about 4 months.

Drugs were hGH, tren ->primo (tren fucked my appetite up too much, better for cutting for me personally), winstrol and t3 at - I believe - 12.5mcg's/day.

Definitely carb cycle. High carbs on training days (hence where I said above maintenance) and lower carbs on non-training days. Your key to success will be sensitivity. Keeping yourself insulin sensitive will go a long way here.... Use berberine, cinnulin or some other blood glucose disposal agent to help out.

The strength gains weren't my goal, but I didn't really lose much. A loss in BF seems to hinder strength and athletic performance almost always... But it wasn't terrible. Maybe a rep or two less on my heaviest lifts on some day were lost.... I try to keep intensity in the gym up as much as possible. So, I eat 70-80% of my daily carbs pre, intra and post workout...

 

[matz]

Honestly, if I put on 3-5lbs of real muscle in mass gaining phase, I'm thrilled. I probably put on about that of muscle in about 4 months.

Drugs were hGH, tren ->primo (tren fucked my appetite up too much, better for cutting for me personally), winstrol and t3 at - I believe - 12.5mcg's/day.

Definitely carb cycle. High carbs on training days (hence where I said above maintenance) and lower carbs on non-training days. Your key to success will be sensitivity. Keeping yourself insulin sensitive will go a long way here.... Use berberine, cinnulin or some other blood glucose disposal agent to help out.

The strength gains weren't my goal, but I didn't really lose much. A loss in BF seems to hinder strength and athletic performance almost always... But it wasn't terrible. Maybe a rep or two less on my heaviest lifts on some day were lost.... I try to keep intensity in the gym up as much as possible. So, I eat 70-80% of my daily carbs pre, intra and post workout...

I guess your goals was more reducing bf while in keeping lean mass than increasing lean mass and slightly reducing bf so it is a different goals but thank you for the input man, you didn't run test along with tren? Maybe that would've kept your appetite up ?

 

[Wunderpus]

I guess your goals was more reducing bf while in keeping lean mass than increasing lean mass and slightly reducing bf so it is a different goals but thank you for the input man, you didn't run test along with tren? Maybe that would've kept your appetite up ?

No, that would be a cut.... I did run test, yes.

I wish you luck in your ventures.

 

[matz]

No, that would be a cut.... I did run test, yes.

I wish you luck in your ventures.

Thank you

 

[Gain Train]

It's simple just eat more to grow quickly, and when you've felt you've reached your growth goal then either implement cardio to tighten up or eat less (both if you want a full on cut). I'm 5 weeks into my prep with reduced calories and cardio (i.e. 35 minutes on the stairs fasted at level 12 (104 steps/min), lifting heavy af 6 days a week, and performing post workout HIIT cardio). Even with all that, by using 400 tren and 300 test with ECA my muscles have continued to get fuller, my maxes have all gone up and I'm 3 pounds lighter over all. The tren will recomp you if you keep the calories conservative, all you gotta do is lift heavy and do cardio if you feel the need. No point in worrying about changing dosages, just chose the dosages your body agrees with most and roll with it. Adjust as you go. Good luck!

 

[Gain Train]

It's simple just eat more to grow quickly, and when you've felt you've reached your growth goal then either implement cardio to tighten up or eat less (both if you want a full on cut). I'm 5 weeks into my prep with reduced calories and cardio (i.e. 35 minutes on the stairs fasted at level 12 (104 steps/min), lifting heavy af 6 days a week, and performing post workout HIIT cardio). Even with all that, by using 400 tren and 300 test with ECA my muscles have continued to get fuller, my maxes have all gone up and I'm 3 pounds lighter over all. The tren will recomp you if you keep the calories conservative, all you gotta do is lift heavy and do cardio if you feel the need. No point in worrying about changing dosages, just chose the dosages your body agrees with most and roll with it. Adjust as you go. Good luck!

So essentially what I'm saying is, your diet plan sounds good and should be interesting, but no need to fiddle with dosages just keep them consistent to remove variables.

 

[ironwill1951]

5 weeks of bulking will give you almost no keepable gains its a waste of time. do a bulk cycle then later do a cutting cycle. it takes time to make gains and it takes time to cut their is no shortcut.

 

[MaskedLiberty]

5 weeks of bulking will give you almost no keepable gains its a waste of time. do a bulk cycle then later do a cutting cycle. it takes time to make gains and it takes time to cut their is no shortcut.

BINGO!

 

[matz]

It's simple just eat more to grow quickly, and when you've felt you've reached your growth goal then either implement cardio to tighten up or eat less (both if you want a full on cut). I'm 5 weeks into my prep with reduced calories and cardio (i.e. 35 minutes on the stairs fasted at level 12 (104 steps/min), lifting heavy af 6 days a week, and performing post workout HIIT cardio). Even with all that, by using 400 tren and 300 test with ECA my muscles have continued to get fuller, my maxes have all gone up and I'm 3 pounds lighter over all. The tren will recomp you if you keep the calories conservative, all you gotta do is lift heavy and do cardio if you feel the need. No point in worrying about changing dosages, just chose the dosages your body agrees with most and roll with it. Adjust as you go. Good luck!

Thank you for the input ! what do you mean by keeping calories conservative? English is not my first language sorry do you mean maintenance?