Civil war combat tactics....with disclaimer.

[x11]

Never been in a war.
Never served in military.
Armchair quarter back.
Bit of a student of WWI and Vietnam.
Apologies to vets who done shit.
Thank you for your service.

Sooo for example battle of Frederiksberg. Human waves of men with single shot muskets walking all bunched up in line in broad daylight against a fortified position. Entire line gets wiped out, rinse and repeat X deadzillion.

WTF were they thinking was gonna happen? We had thousands of years of warfare to study, were the leadership low IQ, what exactly???

Actually kind of glad I never joined, fuck getting shot for some low IQ leadership for no specific strategic reason.

 

[rugerjitsu]

Man, I’m pretty sure there’s a little more to it than that...

Just some of the variables off the top of my head would be the following:

Number of men
Food, how long can your troops be out there before starving?
Supplies, can either side cut off the others supply?

To answer your question, what did they think was going to happen?? Well, if you lose, there’s a good chance you’re entire family would be wiped out...maybe your entire village. The woman would be subject to their captures. The idea was to live free, in your way of life...or die trying.


I’m listening to Dan Carlin’s Hardcore History podcast right now...it’s the one where he covers the Celtic Holicaust by Julius Caesar. It’s amazing the war strategy used 2000 years ago. Think brutal in this day and age, and multiply that by 1000. If you

 

[ickyrica]

 

[x11]

Well, if you lose,

WTF else you gonna do beside die stepping over thousands of your brothers bodies who just failed to do the exact you same thing you are now doing by walking shoulder to shoulder in a straight line across an open field in broad daylight directly into an endless line of fire that has near limitless supplies, ammunition, man power, supported by it's own massive entrenched and mobile artillery all fortified behind a continuous impenetrable stone wall on higher ground while you carry all your own ammunition, a muzzle load single shot rifle, a canteen and a bayonet.

 

[rugerjitsu]

WTF else you gonna do beside die stepping over thousands of your brothers bodies who just failed to do the exact you same thing you are now doing by walking shoulder to shoulder in a straight line across an open field in broad daylight directly into an endless line of fire that had near limitless supplies, ammunition, man power, supported by it's own massive entrenched artillery all fortified by a continuous stone wall on higher ground while you carry all your own ammunition, a canteen and a bayonet that is all useless at penetrating the position in front of you and you have no support.

Have you read any books on the civil war? Did you just watch a movie set during the civil war?? The questions you’re asking are great, but the answers aren’t a secret. I suggest you do a little leg work, as it’s too early in the morning to spoon feed. Trust me when I say, those generals running the war were no dummies...and there were plenty of reasons to risk your life in such a fashion as you describe.

 

[x11]

I am not a student of the Civil war at all, just getting into it. I only just starting with this one battle at Frederiksberg.

I have studied a lot about Vietnam for personal reasons, know vets a bit about WWI for curiosity. Average knowledge of WWII, know vets.

Don't know shit about Afghanistan or ME.

 

[gr8whitetrukker]

I am not a student of the Civil war at all, just getting into it. I only just starting with this one battle at Frederiksberg.

I have studied a lot about Vietnam for personal reasons, know vets a bit about WWI for curiosity. Average knowledge of WWII, know vets.

Don't know shit about Afghanistan or ME.

Americans invented guerilla warfare during the American Revolution to defeat a much much much larger and well armed army. Prolly the greatest upset of all time. No one had us winning that thing. Alot of those tactics were used during the civil war. But alot of open battlefield fighting too. Some things never change. Still happens in recent history too.

How do you think the marines at Tarawa and Iwo Jima felt?
Japanese Admiral Shibasaka boasted it would take 100 yrs and 1,000,000 men to defeat his troops at the heavily fortified island. As history goes it took the Marines just 3 days...they were waiting set up. Fortified and waiting with every conceivable advantage given to them. The Marines just waded or climbed in and fought with tenacity that is hard to understand for normal folks. Brutality my friend.

Or how about D Day? That was just as bad

 

[x11]

Re Iwo and excuse my ignorance, why even attack a remote isolated outpost. I don't understand why you wouldn't siege them out as they had no supply line and we dominated the sea and air at that point.

They would have starved while we lost no troops.

I find this stuff interesting and honestly don't even know if I had a son I would let them join the military unless we were being directly invaded like most US felt in WWI.

 

[hurricane]

Re Iwo and excuse my ignorance, why even attack a remote isolated outpost. I don't understand why you wouldn't siege them out as they had no supply line and we dominated the sea and air at that point.

They would have starved while we lost no troops.

I find this stuff interesting and honestly don't even know if I had a son I would let them join the military unless we were being directly invaded like most US felt in WWI.

We needed the islands to construct airfields so we could bomb and possibly invade mainland Japan.

 

[x11]

We needed the islands to construct airfields so we could bomb and possibly invade mainland Japan.

Which history shows never happened, ie invade mainland Japan.

 

[hurricane]

Which history shows never happened, ie invade mainland Japan.

Correct. We chose to save thousands and thousands of American lives by just nuking them instead. Smart move.
But that is the reason we were "island hopping" in the Pacific.

 

[gr8whitetrukker]

Which history shows never happened, ie invade mainland Japan.

Thats cuz we dropped the bomb...

 

[x11]

Thats cuz we dropped the bomb...

Precisely my point,

 

[hurricane]

Precisely my point,

But you're failing to recognize there were no plans to drop the bomb during the Pacific campaign.
The plan was to invade mainland Japan. Hence the reasoning for taking the islands. The A bomb was used when it became very clear to U.S. commanders that taking mainland Japan would cost us the lives of many more GIs. The islands were already taken at that point.

 

[x11]

But that is the reason we were "island hopping" in the Pacific.

K, in that context the sacrifice makes a lot of sense. Seems the Japs were on the ropes at that point and the direct assaults by the marines still seemed a bit wasteful regards the number of casualties.

The fuck I know tho, never been in a war thanks to the brave men that have.

 

[gr8whitetrukker]

K, in that context the sacrifice makes a lot of sense. Seems the Japs were on the ropes at that point and the direct assaults by the marines still seemed a bit wasteful regards the number of casualties.

The fuck I know tho, never been in a war thanks to the brave men that have.

When japan directly attacked Pearl Harbor in a suprise to drag us completely in to WW2 and to have to fight the war on more than 1 front all reason and sense left the minds of those who were effected. Sock us in the eye with a suprise sucker punch and theyll write about what we did to you here for a thousand yrs. Its all out annihilate. So send the boys who annihilate. And what better way to crush the soul of the enemy than to march right up your throat on your home turf against all odds on a secluded island. One way in. One way out and man on man beat your ass in to the dirt. Thats the way we do it. The way weve always done it. And that kind of ambition and testicular fortitude wed do the same for our allies. And we have. Time and time again

 

[x11]

But you're failing to recognize there were no plans to drop the bomb during the Pacific campaign.

We posted at same time.

Isn't it absurd;

no führer no German euro take over attempt.
no German euro take over attempt, no pacific take over attempt by Japs.
No pacific take over attempt by Japs no US involvement in the war opposing führer.
No US involvement opposing führer no German Jews fleeing to US.
No German Jews fleeing to US means no atomic bomb built by US.
No atomic bomb means a US land invasion of Japan.
US land invasion of Japan means need to take pacific islands.
Pacific island take over means atomic bomb can be launched on Japan.
Atomic bomb launch means no need for land invasion or need to take over pacific islands.

Just fucking lol at people that think an all powerful, merciful god is running this shit show according to a divine plan.

 

[hurricane]

When japan directly attacked Pearl Harbor in a suprise to drag us completely in to WW2 and to have to fight the war on more than 1 front all reason and sense left the minds of those who were effected. Sock us in the eye with a suprise sucker punch and theyll write about what we did to you here for a thousand yrs. Its all out annihilate. So send the boys who annihilate. And what better way to crush the soul of the enemy than to march right up your throat on your home turf against all odds on a secluded island. One way in. One way out and man on man beat your ass in to the dirt. Thats the way we do it. The way weve always done it. And that kind of ambition and testicular fortitude wed do the same for our allies. And we have. Time and time again

Ooh-rah brother!!

 

[hurricane]

K, in that context the sacrifice makes a lot of sense. Seems the Japs were on the ropes at that point and the direct assaults by the marines still seemed a bit wasteful regards the number of casualties.

The fuck I know tho, never been in a war thanks to the brave men that have.

War is ugly man. No way around that.
What myself and guys like @gr8whitetrukker we're trained to do is kill. Nothing more. Nothing less. We want to break your will to fight. And we will use any and all means at our disposal to do just that. Marines are constantly faced with missions knowing they all ain't coming back. I'm honored to have fought alongside them.

 

[jaymaximus]

The thing about older wars was the huge divide between officers and enlisted, the haves and have nots. Officers were usually wealthy land owners and / or politicians snd they had no issue sending wave after wave of enlisted Soldiers to their deaths. Also remember the difference in media, there was no one to immediately answer to and most got news weeks later.