Civil war combat tactics....with disclaimer.

[Rockclimber]

@x11 Grab a couple books on Lee, you will find that he was ahead of his time in Battlefield tactics. He wasn't just lining his men up and shooting across open ground. He was outnumbered and he knew it. His tactics even today are considered brilliant. I know General Lee is frowned upon now and statues of him are being taken down everywhere but historically the man is absolutely amazing.

 

[x11]

The thing about older wars was the huge divide between officers and enlisted, the haves and have nots. Officers were usually wealthy land owners and / or politicians snd they had no issue sending wave after wave of enlisted Soldiers to their deaths. Also remember the difference in media, there was no one to immediately answer to and most got news weeks later.

Aaah, not so good.

 

[Rockclimber]

@gr8whitetrukker
Perfect description of American attitude. I wish there were more men like you around... everyone now is so pathetic. They would see your response as savage or inhuman. Obama actually apologized to the Japanese for dropping the bomb. I threw up in my mouth a little when he did that.

 

[x11]

@x11 Grab a couple books on Lee, you will find that he was ahead of his time in Battlefield tactics. He wasn't just lining his men up and shooting across open ground. He was outnumbered and he knew it. His tactics even today are considered brilliant. I know General Lee is frowned upon now and statues of him are being taken down everywhere but historically the man is absolutely amazing.

I wasn't ever referring to his men at Frederiksberg regards human wave attacks. Was referring to Union troops being lined up.

 

[hurricane]

The thing about older wars was the huge divide between officers and enlisted, the haves and have nots. Officers were usually wealthy land owners and / or politicians snd they had no issue sending wave after wave of enlisted Soldiers to their deaths. Also remember the difference in media, there was no one to immediately answer to and most got news weeks later.

Not to mention how incredibly inept most of the Union officers were. Besides Grant, Chamberlain, and a few others

 

[Rockclimber]

 

[x11]

@gr8whitetrukker
Perfect description of American attitude. I wish there were more men like you around... everyone now is so pathetic. They would see your response as savage or inhuman. Obama actually apologized to the Japanese for dropping the bomb. I threw up in my mouth a little when he did that.

As long as this attitude does not result in exploitation of fine young men just to make slimey evil old rich men even richer I would agree.

 

[x11]

Be funny if this was just a joke.

View attachment 88375

 

[gr8whitetrukker]

@gr8whitetrukker
Perfect description of American attitude. I wish there were more men like you around... everyone now is so pathetic. They would see your response as savage or inhuman. Obama actually apologized to the Japanese for dropping the bomb. I threw up in my mouth a little when he did that.

The bombing of heroshima and nagasaki is an unbelievably tragic thing man. Idk about apologize and i sure as hell dont know about our LEADER apologizing but i dont celebrate the fact we did it. Its horrible. Non combatants all vaporized in an instant. The ones who survived had 3rd degree radiation burns. Deformities in generations to come from the fallout. Cancer etc. Cities and homes leveled. The thing was it wasnt the only way. And it doesnt sit any better with me knowing the only 2 atomic warheads ever used in war were used by the US...

 

[hurricane]

The bombing of heroshima and nagasaki is an unbelievably tragic thing man. Idk about apologize and i sure as hell dont know about our LEADER apologizing but i dont celebrate the fact we did it. Its horrible. Non combatants all vaporized in an instant. The ones who survived had 3rd degree radiation burns. Deformities in generations to come from the fallout. Cancer etc. Cities and homes leveled. The thing was it wasnt the only way. And it doesnt sit any better with me knowing the only 2 atomic warheads ever used in war were used by the US...

Non combatants is one thing any soldier, Marine, airman, or sailor doesn't like. You never get over that. Fukin wrong place wrong time.
And while I agree with trukk that the lives lost was horiffic. I always go back to what it must have been like at Pearl Harbor. They fukd with the wrong country. They even admit getting us involved was a huge tactical error. So my point would be while the Atomic bomb may have been "overkill", I'm not sorry we used it. Tens of thousands of American lives were saved. An invasion would have been brutal to the initial forces(Marines). So I'm ok with using it.

 

[gr8whitetrukker]

Non combatants is one thing any soldier, Marine, airman, or sailor doesn't like. You never get over that. Fukin wrong place wrong time.
And while I agree with trukk that the lives lost was horiffic. I always go back to what it must have been like at Pearl Harbor. They fukd with the wrong country. They even admit getting us involved was a huge tactical error. So my point would be while the Atomic bomb may have been "overkill", I'm not sorry we used it. Tens of thousands of American lives were saved. An invasion would have been brutal to the initial forces(Marines). So I'm ok with using it.

Its complicated for sure and one hell of a decision for Truman to make. Not a decision i would want on my hands.

The japs woulda fought to the past man. The last child in a bloody war on their home turf. It woulda been catastrophic on a lvl never seen before i think. So that certainly played a role too.

But either way nukes are fucked man.

 

[x11]

Not sure why nukes are considered worse than napalm, phosphor or a bunch of other shit we use...apart from half life maybe.

 

[Docd187123]

Not sure why nukes are considered worse than napalm, phosphor or a bunch of other shit we use...apart from half life maybe.

Probably bc napalm has a limited target area. The atomic bomb wiped out hundreds of square miles.

 

[x11]

Probably bc napalm has a limited target area. The atomic bomb wiped out hundreds of square miles.

Not at all, few square miles max.

Entire cities in Europe were also wiped out using conventional bombs. Dresden went full firestorm, the oxygen got used up.

 

[Swiper]

The most interesting thing about the civil war is that most people still think it was about Lincoln and him wanting to free the slaves. unfortunately that’s the phony kind of education you get in a government run public school.

 

[rugerjitsu]

The most interesting thing about the civil war is that most people still think it was about Lincoln and him wanting to free the slaves. unfortunately that’s the phony kind of education you get in a government run public school.

I’m probably not as educated on this subject as you are, but I’m pretty sure Lincoln wanted to free the slaves...I think the real question, and maybe what public education omitted, was the reason why the union wanted them freed. Am I right? Do you know the reason?

 

[Swiper]

I’m probably not as educated on this subject as you are, but I’m pretty sure Lincoln wanted to free the slaves...I think the real question, and maybe what public education omitted, was the reason why the union wanted them freed. Am I right? Do you know the reason?

I'm not well versed in this as well but from what i've read and Lincoln's quotes suggests it wasn't all about freeing the slaves.

"Letter to Horace Greeley
Written during the heart of the Civil War, this is one of Abraham Lincoln's most famous letters. Greeley, editor of the influential New York Tribune, had just addressed an editorial to Lincoln called "The Prayer of Twenty Millions," making demands and implying that Lincoln's administration lacked direction and resolve.
President Lincoln wrote his reply when a draft of the Emancipation Proclamation already lay in his desk drawer. His response revealed his concentration on preserving the Union. The letter, which received acclaim in the North, stands as a classic statement of Lincoln's constitutional responsibilities. A few years after the president's death, Greeley wrote an assessment of Lincoln. He stated that Lincoln did not actually respond to his editorial but used it instead as a platform to prepare the public for his "altered position" on emancipation.

Executive Mansion,
Washington, August 22, 1862.

Hon. Horace Greeley:
Dear Sir.

I have just read yours of the 19th. addressed to myself through the New-York Tribune. If there be in it any statements, or assumptions of fact, which I may know to be erroneous, I do not, now and here, controvert them. If there be in it any inferences which I may believe to be falsely drawn, I do not now and here, argue against them. If there be perceptable in it an impatient and dictatorial tone, I waive it in deference to an old friend, whose heart I have always supposed to be right.

As to the policy I "seem to be pursuing" as you say, I have not meant to leave any one in doubt.

I would save the Union. I would save it the shortest way under the Constitution. The sooner the national authority can be restored; the nearer the Union will be "the Union as it was." If there be those who would not save the Union, unless they could at the same time save slavery, I do not agree with them. If there be those who would not save the Union unless they could at the same time destroy slavery, I do not agree with them. My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause. I shall try to correct errors when shown to be errors; and I shall adopt new views so fast as they shall appear to be true views.

I have here stated my purpose according to my view of official duty; and I intend no modification of my oft-expressed personal wish that all men every where could be free.

Yours,
A. Lincoln."
Abraham Lincoln's Letter to Horace Greeley

 

[rugerjitsu]

Okay, so he wanted to save the union...whether or not that meant freeing the slaves.

The question then is, why did the union need saved?? My belief, which could be off, was that the south had something the union didn’t...low cost labor (slave labor), which the north couldn’t compete with.

Does anyone else have thoughts on that??

Also, for any history nuts out there like me, there’s an awesome book called “A Renegade History of the United States”. If you would like a gritty take on the birth of the USA, and get some different points of views, grab this book now.