Heart healthiest injectables

[Safety First]

Hello Meso-Rx,

What's the most heart healthy injectable anabolic?

I have it in the descending order of:
Testosterone, eqopoise, primobolan, masteron, Nandrolone and than trenbolone.

 

[Safety First]

Seems to me that Nandrolone is 11X worse on the heart than testosterone.
Nandrolone Damages Blood Vessels 11x More Than Testosterone

Trenbolone seems to directly lead to myocardial infraction. A Young Man with Myocardial Infarction due to Trenbolone Acetate; a Case Report

Primo, EQ, and mast seem heart friendly to some degree. Of course test is the base and the hormone from which all others are derived so it would make sense that testosterone would be the heart healthiest compound.

What do you guys think?

 

[Ophydian]

I’d put Primo first, test second...

 

[Safety First]

I’d put Primo first, test second...

Thanks for the reply. What is your reasoning?

 

[Ophydian]

Thanks for the reply. What is your reasoning?

Well it affects cholesterol no worse than testosterone but does not aromatize so no added water weight which means little change in blood pressure.

 

[Mac11wildcat]

Let’s avoid talk of “directly” because a sample size of 1 isn’t statistically significant.

It’s all about dosage, duration, time off, and genetics.

Without science to back it in no particular order:
Primo
EQ
Test
Mast

 

[Safety First]

Let’s avoid talk of “directly” because a sample size of 1 isn’t statistically significant.

It’s all about dosage, duration, time off, and genetics.

Without science to back it in no particular order:
Primo
EQ
Test
Mast

Wonderful insight.

 

[Oregongearhead]

Heart healthy injectables ?
Actually my heart doctor put me on testosterone right after my heart bypass surgery in 2011 because my levels were low . This pic was 3 years later in 2014 . Ive since done over 20 real cycles but still favor testosterone only . And my latest EKG was gtg

 

[johntt44]

Seems to me that Nandrolone is 11X worse on the heart than testosterone.
Nandrolone Damages Blood Vessels 11x More Than Testosterone

Trenbolone seems to directly lead to myocardial infraction. A Young Man with Myocardial Infarction due to Trenbolone Acetate; a Case Report

Primo, EQ, and mast seem heart friendly to some degree. Of course test is the base and the hormone from which all others are derived so it would make sense that testosterone would be the heart healthiest compound.

What do you guys think?

One case doesnt mean that "Trenbolone directly leads to myocardial infarction." You know better than that. Genetics, pre existing unknown problems more likely.

 

[johntt44]

Let’s avoid talk of “directly” because a sample size of 1 isn’t statistically significant.

It’s all about dosage, duration, time off, and genetics.

Without science to back it in no particular order:
Primo
EQ
Test
Mast

Haha, you beat me to it.

 

[Oregongearhead]

One case doesnt mean that "Trenbolone directly leads to myocardial infarction." You know better than that. Genetics, pre existing unknown problems more likely.

But I think we can all agree Tren is the worst of the worst physically ; its the one AAS I wish Id never took .
It kicked off my hairloss streak...

PS - some of these AAS drugs can change you forever with one doseage .
Word .

 

[TownTX]

One case doesnt mean that "Trenbolone directly leads to myocardial infarction." You know better than that. Genetics, pre existing unknown problems more likely.

Id find it hard to believe that Trenbolone isn't severely toxic on the cardiovascular system.

Even the anabolic doc talks in several of his videos about the serious cardiovascular risks of tren.

 

[weighted chinup]

One case doesnt mean that "Trenbolone directly leads to myocardial infarction." You know better than that. Genetics, pre existing unknown problems more likely.

I know of one example of a 28 year old otherwise healthy male who had an MI after 1 year of self-administering 200mg T/E week.

The Iranian Trenbolone study is interesting, because he was running it for a year straight I believe, sometimes it's not really a matter of severe / permanent damage to the blood vessels, plaque, or remodeling, sometimes it just comes down to a combination of things and bad luck setting off an MI. Taking trenbolone for 365 days may not be enough to cause significant remodeling, but 365 days where something can fuck up just because of a combination of factors is enough.

When people analyzed Dallas's autopsy report and they noted all these irregularities in his heart, thyroid, etc, you have to wonder how many other 300lb'ers would have those same issues mid-blast. Maybe most? But not all of them are dropping dead. Your body isn't a finely engineered swiss watched, it's an imperfect biological entity and you can't assume just because you have good health markers nothing will happen. Or even bad...anyone here have grandparents who smoked from childhood and lived till their late 80's?

 

[weighted chinup]

The Nandrolone blood vessel issue never really bothered me in the past, but I think stiff and damaged blood vessels is probably the most dangerous thing for 99% of us under the age of 35.

An argument could be made for keeping HDL up, but even then, Lp-PLA2 and APO-B are the real markers to keep track of.

All-trans menaquinone 7 (K2 MK7) is one of the only things that can help with preventing calcification of blood vessels and improving blood flow. There are also enzymes in Chinese medicine that have strong evidence showing a statically significant impact to blood lucidity.

 

[weighted chinup]

HDL, LDL, Apo A, Apo B, hsCRP, Lp-PLA2.

Most of the evidence is leaning towards Apo B and Lp-PLA2 being the biggest predictors, much more than lipids. If you've been reading the new literature on AAS and CV disease or even just CV disease and cholesterol, you would know what these 2 markers are.

These are the blood markers you want to track. Other tests would include a yearly EKG and if you are an older fellow, Calcium scoring.

 

[weighted chinup]

Also, lastly, blood platelets, RBC's, and too a lesser extent HCT. I think the HCT issue is blown out of proportion, because people believe that it will cause you to have a stroke because of those cyclists who took EPO and died in their sleep because their HCT was elevated.

Stroke isn't my concern with HCT, it's the effect thick blood will have on the blood vessels and over years the adaptation this causes could put you at risk for MI, but no one considers this aspect. Platelets and keeping blood lucidity is huge as well. RBC to avoid issues like AAS induced Polycythemia Vera and DVT or other thrombotic events.

Unfortunately, there is not much you can do with the RBC and HCT issue unless you go off for 6 months or longer every year, and that is off EVERYTHING, even TRT. There is evidence showing that blood-letting / frequent blood donations causes RBC's to come back quicker, so you may not even be solving anything. This is how hematology works, so no surprises here, there's a give and take with everything you do to your body.

It's a risk that I think is the hardest to mitigate out of all the things I mentioned. The question is, how much of a risk is it? If it was a big risk, bodybuilders in Colorado would have pretty horrible mortality rates, but that is not the case.

I could shit-post about this subject all day, but if you aren't willing to bet your health on your genetics, give yourself a cut off for when you will leave the AAS side of this hobby. I have my cut off, 30 years old. So about 5 years from now, goal is to be as productive with off-season and dieting phases and compete as much as I can until then and then focus on other shit. Still plan on training hard until I am decrepit and dying though, that will never change.

 

[TownTX]

HDL, LDL, Apo A, Apo B, hsCRP, Lp-PLA2.

Most of the evidence is leaning towards Apo B and Lp-PLA2 being the biggest predictors, much more than lipids. If you've been reading the new literature on AAS and CV disease or even just CV disease and cholesterol, you would know what these 2 markers are.

These are the blood markers you want to track. Other tests would include a yearly EKG and if you are an older fellow, Calcium scoring.

On the subject of EKG's i feel this piece of kit is something that any hard core AAS user should look into.

This app can tell if you're having a serious heart attack

Picked one up earlier in the week. AliveCor's mobile ECG machine. Comes in single lead and 6 lead models.

The single lead ECG costs $99.99 and the six lead $149.99. Highly recommend the 6 lead for AAS monitoring purposes.

The study above shows it was nearly as accurate as a hospital 12 lead EKG at detecting MI.

Not affiliated whatsoever, just thought this little piece of kit could sure save lives, especially in the AAS community.

 

[weighted chinup]

On the subject of EKG's i feel this piece of kit is something that any hard core AAS user should look into.

This app can tell if you're having a serious heart attack

Picked one up earlier in the week. AliveCor's mobile ECG machine. Comes in single lead and 6 lead models.

The single lead ECG costs $99.99 and the six lead $149.99. Highly recommend the 6 lead for AAS monitoring purposes.

The study above shows it was nearly as accurate as a hospital 12 lead EKG at detecting MI.

Not affiliated whatsoever, just thought this little piece of kit could sure save lives, especially in the AAS community.

Good suggestion, I remember looking into this a while back.

 

[weighted chinup]

But I think we can all agree Tren is the worst of the worst physically ; its the one AAS I wish Id never took .
It kicked off my hairloss streak...

PS - some of these AAS drugs can change you forever with one doseage .
Word .

I regret ever taking tren too, except the one time I took it when my diet and training were at their absolute peak and it genuinely changed my look for the better in a permanent way.

Remember a few years ago in 2015 when everyone on this board was running tren all the fucking time? People taking 500-700mg every week and even higher every single cycle 3-4 times a year. Hell even I ran it that way. I regret doing that, not only did I look like shit so it wasn't even necessary, but it's so risky. I have age on my side and even I avoid tren, haven't used it in maybe 2 or 3 years?

People need to be more honest about their experiences, everyone talked about their insane tren results but I am dubious, I think most of those people aren't getting much out of it but don't want to admit it because it's so strong and people will assume if you don't look great on it, your training and diet sucks. Not the case, it's not a magic drug, and it's a really harsh one. The difference is I have no shame so I have no problem openly talking about my mistakes .

 

[Safety First]

I regret ever taking tren too, except the one time I took it when my diet and training were at their absolute peak and it genuinely changed my look for the better in a permanent way.

Remember a few years ago in 2015 when everyone on this board was running tren all the fucking time? People taking 500-700mg every week and even higher every single cycle 3-4 times a year. Hell even I ran it that way. I regret doing that, not only did I look like shit so it wasn't even necessary, but it's so risky. I have age on my side and even I avoid tren, haven't used it in maybe 2 or 3 years?

People need to be more honest about their experiences, everyone talked about their insane tren results but I am dubious, I think most of those people aren't getting much out of it but don't want to admit it because it's so strong and people will assume if you don't look great on it, your training and diet sucks. Not the case, it's not a magic drug, and it's a really harsh one. The difference is I have no shame so I have no problem openly talking about my mistakes .

It's good you can do that.