TRT Patient doing first REALLY big cycle...

[BigBoy_21]

Hello there....

This is my first post on this site. I just recently discovered it and have been just following a few logs and reading a few pinned posts and decided to log, the best I can, my next cycle.

A little about me...

I am 37 years old
5'11 and 248lbs
Currently between 18-25% bf I'd guess.

I have done a handful of small to moderate cycles in my life and I have been on testosterone replacement for the past 6 years (200mg per week).

I have thrown other compounds and upped my test dosages throughout my TRT journey but this will be the first, what I consider, BIG cycle I have ever done and definitely the first time I have stepped in to the HGH pool. Will be starting this cycle in the middle of September.

My compounds for this cycle are as follows...

Anabolics:
Test Prop 100mg ED Wks. 1-12
Tren A 50mg Mon-fri Wks. 1-8
NPP 400mg a week Wks. 9-12
EQ 300mg a week Wks. 1-12
Anadrol 50 mg pre lift. on non training days before bed Wks. 1-8
Masteron E 300mg a week Wk. 1-12

Peptides:
GH at 4-6 IU a day
MK677 20 mg before bed

Insulin Memetics:
Berberine and Cinnamon with each carb containing meal

Support:
Arimadex. 5mg 2x a week
Cabergoline. 5mg 2 x aweek
Dim 200mg 2 x a day
Calcium de glucerate 500mg
Methyl folate 5,000mcg 2 x a day

PS...Sorry for the white out on the chest...I have a very uhmmmmm "personal" tattoo there. lol

 

[Mac11wildcat]

Couple things:
-Why so many compounds at these doses? Whats the goal here? What’s the thought process?
-8 weeks of tren to start but only 4 weeks of NPP to finish? Why?
-Id shift the Anadrol to the end, last 8 not first
-ramp your gH up, jumping to 4-6iu off the bat is gonna be rough..
-GH AND MK? This is a recipe for insulin resistance if I’ve ever seen one
-deciding on your AI use ahead of time isn’t advisable; take as needed not as planned
-deciding to take caber without the need is an often made mistake; controlling e2 usually controls prolactin and using caber just because you’ve got 19nors is less than advisable. Have on hand and try b6 first.

a suggestion if you’re set on using all these compounds:

Weeks 1-6
Test - 700
Eq - 300
NPP - 400
Mast - 300

Weeks 7-8
Test - 700
Eq - 300
NPP - 400
Mast - 300
Anadrol - 50 ED

Weeks 9-12
Test - 700
Eq - 300
Mast - 300
Tren - 250
Anadrol - 50 ED

 

[Tren91]

Looks good.Whats the purpose of 4 weeks NPP in the end of the cycle?Do you measure your blood glucose thru the day?Its verry possible to need berberine while on gh,mk and a bit more bf,but i wouldn't take it if not sure i need it.I would start low with the GH and not add mk until i know how i react to GH.Actually i would just throw the mk in the garbage,but that's me . Will follow if you log this cycle.

 

[BigBoy_21]

Couple things:
-Why so many compounds at these doses? Whats the goal here? What’s the thought process?
-8 weeks of tren to start but only 4 weeks of NPP to finish? Why?
-Id shift the Anadrol to the end, last 8 not first
-ramp your gH up, jumping to 4-6iu off the bat is gonna be rough..
-GH AND MK? This is a recipe for insulin resistance if I’ve ever seen one
-deciding on your AI use ahead of time isn’t advisable; take as needed not as planned
-deciding to take caber without the need is an often made mistake; controlling e2 usually controls prolactin and using caber just because you’ve got 19nors is less than advisable. Have on hand and try b6 first.

a suggestion if you’re set on using all these compounds:

Weeks 1-6
Test - 700
Eq - 300
NPP - 400
Mast - 300

Weeks 7-8
Test - 700
Eq - 300
NPP - 400
Mast - 300
Anadrol - 50 ED

Weeks 9-12
Test - 700
Eq - 300
Mast - 300
Tren - 250
Anadrol - 50 ED

Hey Mac...thanks for the honest feedback. Ive ran Tren A and E before and I LOVE the stuff but it always seems that after the 8 week mark the sides shoot up and the gains level off. I had the NPP from a previous order so just thought about rotating those out for the last 4 week since it is a shorter ester than Deca and thought 4 weeks might be enough time to see a little off of it. Don't really have to do it at all.

I like your set also. I will definitely take it into consideration when all the compounds arrive. What would you say the benefits of starting with NPP and ending with the Tren would be.

Like I said this is my first big cycle I usually just use 2-3 compounds mostly injectibales and haven't used an oral in a minute.

REALLY love the advice on the GH and MK...im a complete newb and your read tons of contradicting advice from people and even when I reach out to experienced bodybuilders they have varied opinions. Im sure its just personal preference with some of that stuff and how your body responds to different compounds. But anything you have to say about the cycle or especially the GH usage/dosage/insulin manipulations I am all ears brother.

 

[BigBoy_21]

Looks good.Whats the purpose of 4 weeks NPP in the end of the cycle?Do you measure your blood glucose thru the day?Its verry possible to need berberine while on gh,mk and a bit more bf,but i wouldn't take it if not sure i need it.I would start low with the GH and not add mk until i know how i react to GH.Actually i would just throw the mk in the garbage,but that's me . Will follow if you log this cycle.

Haha yes I have heard many say the MK is complete trash and there are some that love it. Im going to try it and see for myself but yes I will be testing my glucose throughout the day. I actually just picked up a glucometer yesterday. What GH dosage would you suggest 2iu? And how should I walk it up over the 12 weeks or just keep it low for my first run of it? Thanks for the response!

 

[Mac11wildcat]

Hey Mac...thanks for the honest feedback. Ive ran Tren A and E before and I LOVE the stuff but it always seems that after the 8 week mark the sides shoot up and the gains level off. I had the NPP from a previous order so just thought about rotating those out for the last 4 week since it is a shorter ester than Deca and thought 4 weeks might be enough time to see a little off of it. Don't really have to do it at all.

I like your set also. I will definitely take it into consideration when all the compounds arrive. What would you say the benefits of starting with NPP and ending with the Tren would be.

Like I said this is my first big cycle I usually just use 2-3 compounds mostly injectibales and haven't used an oral in a minute.

REALLY love the advice on the GH and MK...im a complete newb and your read tons of contradicting advice from people and even when I reach out to experienced bodybuilders they have varied opinions. Im sure its just personal preference with some of that stuff and how your body responds to different compounds. But anything you have to say about the cycle or especially the GH usage/dosage/insulin manipulations I am all ears brother.

Appreciate you taking all that into consideration.

This may be personal preference, but I find NPP/Deca better utilized for longer runs (related to their half life of course) than tren. Tren has also been an amazing plateau buster for me.

The reasoning for my setup is to try to pyramid the blast as weeks go on. You don’t want to be eliminating mg deep in a cycle when plateaus hit; you want to start slow and add more as you go to help prevent stalls. It should go without saying that food is the most important factor in keeping weight moving up or down, whatever the goal is.

As for MK/gH, the guys I take seriously who’ve used MK like it. It is however typically worse for glucose than gH. Using both together, especially at those doses, sounds like a poor choice, especially without slin (which I don’t advise taking just to offset your first gh/mk run).

 

[BigBoy_21]

Appreciate you taking all that into consideration.

This may be personal preference, but I find NPP/Deca better utilized for longer runs (related to their half life of course) than tren. Tren has also been an amazing plateau buster for me.

The reasoning for my setup is to try to pyramid the blast as weeks go on. You don’t want to be eliminating mg deep in a cycle when plateaus hit; you want to start slow and add more as you go to help prevent stalls. It should go without saying that food is the most important factor in keeping weight moving up or down, whatever the goal is.

As for MK/gH, the guys I take seriously who’ve used MK like it. It is however typically worse for glucose than gH. Using both together, especially at those doses, sounds like a poor choice, especially without slin (which I don’t advise taking just to offset your first gh/mk run).

Again great stuff. Solid logic man...SERIOUSLY appreciate the feedback. I also agree on the MK I have talked to some guys who hate it but a few who love it and one guy who is a monster freak that really likes it...he actually helped me set up the cycle a bit. I don't think he is the end all be all of anabolic knowledge so I love hearing others takes and their why's behind their what's.

Im going to be doing the vertical diet and my goal is to bulk through this cycle. Ill be posting my planned diet and macros in the coming days. I am working with a friend of mine who is powerlifter and a dietitians on getting my diet down to a T. I definitely don't want to drop over 1K on a cycle just to waste it with poor nutrition.

Thanks again for the feedback...keep it coming.

 

[BigBoy_21]

Anyone have suggestions on what dosages I should start my GH at and when if ever should I ramp them up if I’m not experiencing any sides.

I’ve been searching the board but haven’t found a first timer GH dosage guide or anything like that.

 

[Xenophon178]

Hello all. Newbie to the forum here. Just wanna say how cool it is that you guys are supportive and give info instead of being dicks.

can I ask a question while you guys are giving good info?

I’m 35. TRT at 200mg cyp/1mg anastrazole a week. Getting back in the gym after five years out. Cycling experience is poor. Mostly did test/orals to keep strong and compete in the service.

These days I wanna get shredded

I’ve been combining small amounts of gear on a therapeutic level. Things like Deca (100mg wk to keep the joints lubed because they’re shot).

My buddy loves tren ace. Says it will get you shredded because you can do the work and recover FAST. I don’t doubt that. I like the idea of being able to do 30 sets and heal! I don’t know that I need to jump straight on to the tren train yet though. Maybe I’m over cautious but, I treat all this shit with respect because it will kill you or at least eff you up if you’re foolish with it.

EXPERIENCE:

I’ve used:
Test (cyp, prop, enan, sust)
Deca
Dbol
Anavar
Pro-H’s (back in the day, 2003-2005)

COUPLE THINGS:

-My diet is IN CHECK (“chicken and rice mfr!”), no garbage
-h20 intake is a gallon/day, more if I’m outside a lot

Should I take this guys advice and try a few weeks of low dose tren ace with my test and see what happens? Blunt replies welcome. No thin skin here.

 

[Silentlemon1011]

Anyone have suggestions on what dosages I should start my GH at and when if ever should I ramp them up if I’m not experiencing any sides.

I’ve been searching the board but haven’t found a first timer GH dosage guide or anything like that.

First time with GH?
run 2iu for a few weeks to a month.
Ideally fasted AM with a bit of cardio for best effect.

Feeling good, jump it to 4iu after a month or so.
Check BG after a few weeks of 4iu to see how you react.
(I like 4iu split into 2iu AM fasted cardio and 2iu before bed.)... There is some argument to be had there, but go with what works for you!
I doubt Blood sugar will increase, but it does for some guys

 

[BigBoy_21]

First time with GH?
run 2iu for a few weeks to a month.
Ideally fasted AM with a bit of cardio for best effect.

Feeling good, jump it to 4iu after a month or so.
Check BG after a few weeks of 4iu to see how you react.
(I like 4iu split into 2iu AM fasted cardio and 2iu before bed.)... There is some argument to be had there, but go with what works for you!
I doubt Blood sugar will increase, but it does for some guys

Yes first timer! Very very excited mildly nervous. lol

2ius in AM with some fasted cardio...perfect! After/If I jump to 4ius should I jump to six a month later or don’t go any higher than 4 with my first run....doing it for 3 months.

I was just reading an article saying that 6-8ius was the optimal dose and that the liver couldn’t process more than that. Not sure how true that is but thought it was interested with some guys doing WAY more than that.

Thanks for the feedback!

 

[Mac11wildcat]

As a casual AAS user (I assume you don’t compete), 2-4iu is PLENTY. 6-8iu is not at all necessary and brings with it some potentially serious sides.

 

[BigBoy_21]

Lol you saying that because my picture!!! jk jk

Yes sir...casual user doing a big cycle for me. Am thinking about doing a local show in November of 2022 in my state. Other than that I think you are spot on. Thanks for the feedback again.

I’ll keep everyone apprised on my cycle. Should be arriving on Monday.

 

[Silentlemon1011]

Yes first timer! Very very excited mildly nervous. lol

2ius in AM with some fasted cardio...perfect! After/If I jump to 4ius should I jump to six a month later or don’t go any higher than 4 with my first run....doing it for 3 months.

I was just reading an article saying that 6-8ius was the optimal dose and that the liver couldn’t process more than that. Not sure how true that is but thought it was interested with some guys doing WAY more than that.

Thanks for the feedback!

What @Mac11wildcat said about the 6+ Iu.
Just dont really need it unless your on that next level.
4iu is a solid number

Try 2iu for a month or so and jump to 4iu
You'll be happy with the results
I

 

[BigBoy_21]

What @Mac11wildcat said about the 6+ Iu.
Just dont really need it unless your on that next level.
4iu is a solid number

Try 2iu for a month or so and jump to 4iu
You'll be happy with the results
I

Thanks fellas!

 

[BigBoy_21]

Just got a update that the cycle should land on Tuesday. Might be able to start this party a bit sooner than I thought!

Nice surprise!

 

[BigBoy_21]

Here are my workouts and lifts from the last week. Also the program I plan on continuing to use through my blast. Cheers!

Back and Some Quads:

Barbell Rows 5 x 5
135-5
185-5
185-5
185-5
185-5

Dumbbell Rows 4 x 6
90-6
90-6
90-6
90-6

Seated Rows 4 x 8-10*
180-10
195-10
195-10
195-10 (dropset) (hard)

Lat Pulldowns 3 x 10-12*
120-12
130-10
130-10 (dropset) (hard)

Cable Pullovers 3 x 15
100-15
100-15
100-15

Leg Extensions 7 x 15*
195-15
195-15
195-15
180-15
180-15
165-15
165-15 (dropset) (HARD)

Chest and Some Arms:

Bench Press 4 x 6
275-6
295-6
315-6
325-6

Incline Dumbbell Press 4 x 8-10
75-10
80-10
80-10
80-10

Cable Flyes 4 x 10-12*
70-12
60-12
60-12
60-12 (dropset)


Hammer Strength Chest Press 3 x 15*
120-15
120-15
120-15 (dropset)

Cable Pressdowns 3 x 10**
140-10
130-10
120-10 (rest pause)

Preacher Curls 3 x 10**
65-10
85-10
85-10 (rest pause)

Leg Day:

Squats 5 x 6-8
225-8
275-6
295-6
315-6
365-6

Leg Press 5 x 15
225-15
315-15
405-15
455-15
455-15 (hard)

Stiff-leg Deadlifts 4 x 10
185-10
185-10
185-10
185-10

Leg Extensions 4 x 12*
165-12
180-12
180-12
180-12

Leg Curls 4 x 12*
135-12
150-12
165-12
165-12 (dropset)

Standing Calve Raises 5 x 15**
60-12
50-12
50-12
50-12
40-12 (rest pause)

Shoulders and Some Back

Seated DB Press 4 x 8
50-8
60-8
70-8
70-8

Lateral Raises 4 x 10
30-10
30-10
30-10
30-10

Bent-over Raises 4 x 12 (Machine)
135-12
135-12
135-12
135-12

Reverse Grip Barbell Rows 4 x 15
135-15
135-15
135-15
135-15

Close-Grip Lat Pulldowns 4 x 15
100-15
100-15
90-15
90–15

Deadlift and Some Arms:

Deadlifts 5 x 10, 5, 3, 2, 2
185-10
225-5
275-3
315-2
365-2

Overhead DB Extensions 4 x 8-10
60-12
70-10
75-10
75-10

Barbell Curls 4 x 8-10
95-10
100-10
100-10
100-10

Rope Pressdowns 4 x 10-12*
150-12
150-12
140-12
140-12 (dropset)

Dumbbell Hammer Curls 4 x 10-12*
45-10
45-10
45-10
45-10

 

[BigBoy_21]

Also after taking in all the great feedback here and reading some other logs I’ve decided to restructure my stack to look like this...only last possible change will be the orals. If I’m dumb for running an oral for the whole cycle tell me and I’ll think about changing it up. But to Macs point I want o start with a weaker oral and bump up to a stronger one to help blast through any plateaus I hit mid cycle...also I’m dropping the NPP completely.

Weeks 1-6
Test - 700
Eq - 300
Mast - 300
D-bol - 50mg ED

Weeks 7-12
Test - 700
Eq - 300
Mast - 300
Anadrol - 50 ED
Tren - 250

HGH 2ius per day for 4 weeks and if no noticeable sides or BG issues then bump it out to 4ius per day sub-q

Thoughts??

 

[Spokeonawheel]

EQ at 300 for 12 weeks seems a little pointless. Especially with the tren on the back end. Rather see you up the dose on the mast.

A lot of moving parts here if these compounds are new to you.

E2 control on Dbol can be a bitch.

Everything could go great. Or you could run into problems. Test, EQ and mast aren't exactly known for a lot of weird side effects. And pretty well tolerated.

I've personally had issues controlling E2 with Dbol (you can only pull bloods so often...i mean I guess you could weekly but its a little overkill) And anadrol caused me to blow up with water retention. 10 pounds in like 4 days...noticeable edema.

Tren is just a hell of a thing. I tend to have no trouble except for a tendency to become easily frustrated... I've learned to deal with lack of sleep and acid reflux it can cause.

Its not necessarily a lot of gear, its just a lot of different compounds and it could become difficult to manage.

If you run into trouble with this....i would suspect the orals.

All of this probably isn't necessary to get where you are trying to go. Simpler is often better. I would try and limit the cycle to 3 compounds OR LESS.

Good luck tho.

 

[BigBoy_21]

EQ at 300 for 12 weeks seems a little pointless. Especially with the tren on the back end. Rather see you up the dose on the mast.

A lot of moving parts here if these compounds are new to you.

E2 control on Dbol can be a bitch.

Everything could go great. Or you could run into problems. Test, EQ and mast aren't exactly known for a lot of weird side effects. And pretty well tolerated.

I've personally had issues controlling E2 with Dbol (you can only pull bloods so often...i mean I guess you could weekly but its a little overkill) And anadrol caused me to blow up with water retention. 10 pounds in like 4 days...noticeable edema.

Tren is just a hell of a thing. I tend to have no trouble except for a tendency to become easily frustrated... I've learned to deal with lack of sleep and acid reflux it can cause.

Its not necessarily a lot of gear, its just a lot of different compounds and it could become difficult to manage.

If you run into trouble with this....i would suspect the orals.

All of this probably isn't necessary to get where you are trying to go. Simpler is often better. I would try and limit the cycle to 3 compounds OR LESS.

Good luck tho.

Appreciate the feedback. I thought I had replied to this from my phone but I guess it didn't go through. The only compounds that are brand new to me are the Masteron, EQ, and GH. Other than that I have tried everything on the list in a stack at least once. Some multiple times.

I have done well on everything in my life except liquid dbol (reforvit-b) for some reason that gave me terrible bacne and kidney pain and irritability.

What doses would you suggest the mast and EQ at? With so many moving parts Im trying to start low to moderate on most things and move up as the cycle goes if I don't have any problems.