Pendlay Row vs One-Arm Dumbbell Row for lats?

[Clark Cooper]

I want my lats to grow. I like lifting heavy weights but I must say Pendlay Row is a bit of an awkward exercise. It is included in StrongLifts 5x5. I'm only interested in hypertrophy (do not have intentions to ever become a powerlifter). Do you think I should substitute Pendlay Rows with One-Arm Dumbbell Rows? Are those two equally good for building big strong back muscles? If you think Pendlay Row is a really decent exercise over OADR though I am willing to learn dedicate myself to it.

 

[rthor4573]

In my opinion, if you are only interested in hypertrophy and not interested in power lifting, then stronglifts 5x5 is the wrong program for you. If you want to run it to gain some strength, then sure, but just know it's an inferior program from a hypertrophy standpoint than others. Not that you wouldn't grow at all, but there are better programs for that.

To answer your question, strictly for hypertrophy, my opinion would be that one arm db rows would be better. Its a unilateral exercise, and you can easily get up into the moderate rep ranges that favor hypertrophy over strength. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Test_Subject]

I want my lats to grow.

-- Do pullups if you want big lats.

-- Stronglifts is a garbage program for hypertrophy. It's a garbage program in general.

-- You need to include both bilateral and unilateral movements to prevent imbalances. It's not an either/or proposition. Do both. I'd do bent over rows instead of Pendlays, but that's me.

 

[shawn2551]

Barbell rows are fantastic for growing your lats. Problem is they are extremely taxing on the lower back.
You dont have to do the standard "Pendlay" row and rest it on the ground. Pull from pins in a squat rack. At a height long enough to get full stretch at the bottom. For me its about shin height.

 

[Test_Subject]

Barbell rows are fantastic for growing your lats. Problem is they are extremely taxing on the lower back.

I see that as more of a feature than a problem

 

[Oldschool]

Banded dumbbell pullovers will really grow some “wings”.

 

[Clark Cooper]

In my opinion, if you are only interested in hypertrophy and not interested in power lifting, then stronglifts 5x5 is the wrong program for you. If you want to run it to gain some strength, then sure, but just know it's an inferior program from a hypertrophy standpoint than others. Not that you wouldn't grow at all, but there are better programs for that.

To answer your question, strictly for hypertrophy, my opinion would be that one arm db rows would be better. Its a unilateral exercise, and you can easily get up into the moderate rep ranges that favor hypertrophy over strength. Just my 2 cents.

Which one would you recommend for me? Doesn't 5x5 kind of look similar to 5/3/1 but just less math (and no need to know your 1RM like in 5/3/1)? Plus people been telling me that I need to improve my lifts before I can hope on gear hence it was my choice. Also what do you think of this program: Hypertrophy Training: A Simple 3-Day Full-Body Workout Routine

Also forgot to tell you about myself: I'm kind of a noobie. Not enhanced. Bulking. Never been focusing on trying to lift very heavy until recently. I have 1 year of experience but that is separated by lock down (3 months was forced to train with small weights at home 13 kg dumbbells max) so about 7 months before lock down (I was at the gym doing light to moderate weights and machines) and 2 months been since gyms reopened so now I decided maybe time to lift some heavy weights.

 

[Clark Cooper]

-- Do pullups if you want big lats.

-- Stronglifts is a garbage program for hypertrophy. It's a garbage program in general.

-- You need to include both bilateral and unilateral movements to prevent imbalances. It's not an either/or proposition. Do both. I'd do bent over rows instead of Pendlays, but that's me.

Maaan totally agree I love pull ups too so I'm doing them twice a week in addition to the 5x5 right now. But now it seems like people say 5x5 is crap maybe I'll have to ditch it eventually. Not gonna lie I feel ignorant right now, hard to find a good program that ticks all the boxes... Thing is I really do need to get strong at lifts. But most of all I want hypertrophy of course. I posted here my previous program you see the link above? One guy here said it was crap. Although to me it looked like a pretty well rounded 3 days a week routine.

Now I remember you told me your program I actually love how it looks and I wanna try it too! Do you think it will work for me as a natty to do compounds 4 days a week? Will it not make me burned out quickly?

 

[Oldschool]

Maaan totally agree I love pull ups too so I'm doing them twice a week in addition to the 5x5 right now. But now it seems like people say 5x5 is crap maybe I'll have to ditch it eventually. Not gonna lie I feel ignorant right now, hard to find a good program that ticks all the boxes... Thing is I really do need to get strong at lifts. But most of all I want hypertrophy of course. I posted here my previous program you see the link above? One guy here said it was crap. Although to me it looked like a pretty well rounded 3 days a week routine.

Now I remember you told me your program I actually love how it looks and I wanna try it too! Do you think it will work for me as a natty to do compounds 4 days a week? Will it not make me burned out quickly?

I tried to give you a couple programs but I can’t get them to freaking load. I’m an old idiot in regards to that. I will hook you up when my kid gets out of school. Lol.

 

[Clark Cooper]

I tried to give you a couple programs but I can’t get them to freaking load. I’m an old idiot in regards to that. I will hook you up when my kid gets out of school. Lol.

That's cool man. Thanks for the help, I will reply to you in dm.

 

[rthor4573]

Which one would you recommend for me? Doesn't 5x5 kind of look similar to 5/3/1 but just less math (and no need to know your 1RM like in 5/3/1)? Plus people been telling me that I need to improve my lifts before I can hope on gear hence it was my choice. Also what do you think of this program: Hypertrophy Training: A Simple 3-Day Full-Body Workout Routine

Also forgot to tell you about myself: I'm kind of a noobie. Not enhanced. Bulking. Never been focusing on trying to lift very heavy until recently. I have 1 year of experience but that is separated by lock down (3 months was forced to train with small weights at home 13 kg dumbbells max) so about 7 months before lock down (I was at the gym doing light to moderate weights and machines) and 2 months been since gyms reopened so now I decided maybe time to lift some heavy weights.

So your first post you said you were interested in hypertrophy and the 5x5 and 531 programs are strength training programs. I was just pointing out that for your claimed goals, these are not the right programs.

You will still get stronger by doing sets of 8-12 and, very generally speaking, this is a better rep range for hypertrophy. Even up to 16 or 20 reps for some exercises.

I'm not going to recommend a program, but in general for hypertrophy you want to find programs that have 6 reps or more each set and 3-4 sets per exercise, 2-4 exercises per muscle group (more exercises for bigger muscle groups, fewer for smaller ones). These are very general guidelines.

But contrast that recommendation with the 5 sets of 5 reps, 1 exercise per muscle group in the program that you're doing now, and you should be able to see the difference in programming.

Youre new, you'll get stronger. That will happen regardless. I'd do a strength program if you're looking for strength, and a hypertrophy program (bodybuilding) for hypertrophy.

Good luck man. Hope this helps some.

 

[Test_Subject]

Now I remember you told me your program I actually love how it looks and I wanna try it too! Do you think it will work for me as a natty to do compounds 4 days a week? Will it not make me burned out quickly?

Working out 4 days a week with compound exercises is fine for a natural lifter. Just pace yourself and you'll be alright.

The 5/3/1 boring but big variant is a good 4 day option for building muscle and getting stronger at the same time. I highly recommend the "first set last" variant where you do 3 sets of 5-8 after your main sets. That variant gives you more volume in the "hypertrophy range" and should suit your goals well. I've seen it work magic for beginners. People will say that 5/3/1 is more of an intermediate program, but it's amazing for starting out because it teaches you the lifts and the progression is super easy to follow.

As a bonus, there are about a million good apps for tracking 5/3/1.

I wouldn't recommend my program that I told you about before. You're going to want to learn to squat and deadlift with fresh legs. My routine leaves your legs a bit sore for the next workout.

 

[Clark Cooper]

Working out 4 days a week with compound exercises is fine for a natural lifter. Just pace yourself and you'll be alright.

The 5/3/1 boring but big variant is a good 4 day option for building muscle and getting stronger at the same time. I highly recommend the "first set last" variant where you do 3 sets of 5-8 after your main sets. That variant gives you more volume in the "hypertrophy range" and should suit your goals well. I've seen it work magic for beginners. People will say that 5/3/1 is more of an intermediate program, but it's amazing for starting out because it teaches you the lifts and the progression is super easy to follow.

As a bonus, there are about a million good apps for tracking 5/3/1.

I wouldn't recommend my program that I told you about before. You're going to want to learn to squat and deadlift with fresh legs. My routine leaves your legs a bit sore for the next workout.

Ok got you. Where did you find that 5/3/1 and First set last thing? is it on T-nation?

 

[rthor4573]

I can appreciate asking questions and researching. But also, know that you can theorize, hypothesize, and what-if something to death.

Here is my advice to you. Run 5x5. Or 5 3 1. Or a hypertrophy program. Or whatever. Pick a program. You will 100% see results if you run it faithfully and consistently. Seeing as you're new, you will grow and you will get stronger.

I want you to run it for 6 months.

You want to grow and get stronger? 6 months should be a fraction of the time you're anticipating dedicating to the lifestyle required to really progress and get better. 6 months are going to pass anyway, how it passes is up to you.

During this 6 months, workout consistently. Eat consistently. Train consistently. You will have to take a few deloads. You will have to break through a few plateaus. You will really learn how your body responds to a constant stimulus and your diet.

At the end of that six months you will be in a VERY good place to critique the program you ran for 6 months. You will know exactly what you want out of your next program, exactly your weak points. You'll know what you're good at and what you need to work on. You'll be able to set intelligent and informed goals. You'll know that you can commit to a goal.

I would advise against jumping from program to program, second guessing yourself, switching from strength to hypertrophy frequently, and definitely when starting out. Pick a program and run the fuck out of it. I think the insight you'll gain from that will be rather vast.

 

[Oldschool]

I can appreciate asking questions and researching. But also, know that you can theorize, hypothesize, and what-if something to death.

Here is my advice to you. Run 5x5. Or 5 3 1. Or a hypertrophy program. Or whatever. Pick a program. You will 100% see results if you run it faithfully and consistently. Seeing as you're new, you will grow and you will get stronger.

I want you to run it for 6 months.

You want to grow and get stronger? 6 months should be a fraction of the time you're anticipating dedicating to the lifestyle required to really progress and get better. 6 months are going to pass anyway, how it passes is up to you.

During this 6 months, workout consistently. Eat consistently. Train consistently. You will have to take a few deloads. You will have to break through a few plateaus. You will really learn how your body responds to a constant stimulus and your diet.

At the end of that six months you will be in a VERY good place to critique the program you ran for 6 months. You will know exactly what you want out of your next program, exactly your weak points. You'll know what you're good at and what you need to work on. You'll be able to set intelligent and informed goals. You'll know that you can commit to a goal.

I would advise against jumping from program to program, second guessing yourself, switching from strength to hypertrophy frequently, and definitely when starting out. Pick a program and run the fuck out of it. I think the insight you'll gain from that will be rather vast.

Six months training on the same program would be like training six months using the same weight, sets and reps. Not cool. Run a program for a couple months. Switch it up and bang away on a different program. Younger lifters need to take advantage of their younger years. You are building the foundation for later on. Trust me. Hit it hard. Hit it often. Change things up to keep the body guessing and adapting to the stress and damage you inflict. EAT EAT EAT EAT EAT EAT.

 

[Rival]

Here is my advice to you. Run 5x5. Or 5 3 1. Or a hypertrophy program. Or whatever. Pick a program. You will 100% see results if you run it faithfully and consistently. Seeing as you're new, you will grow and you will get stronger.

agreee x1000. If 5x5 is getting you to the gym then keep running it. I ran that for almost 2 years (1 year starting strength, 1 year Texas method) before exhausting my strength gains and switching programs. Run a program and keep going with it for as long as possible, especially when you’re newish - jumping programs is a bad habit a lot of people get into, and will ultimately just give up and blame the “program”.

 

[Test_Subject]

Ok got you. Where did you find that 5/3/1 and First set last thing? is it on T-nation?

https://blackironbeast.com/5/3/1/calculator

The basic idea is:

Monday
OHP main lift then 5-8x3 at starting weight
bench variation 10x5
chin-ups 10x5

Tuesday
Deadlift main lift then 5-8x3 at starting weight
squat variation 10x5
ab wheel 10-20x3

Thursday
Bench main lift then 5-8x3 at starting weight
OHP 10x5
dumbell rows 10x5

Friday
Squat 531 then 5-8x3 at starting weight
deadlift variation 10x5
hanging leg raises 10x5

That's the core program. You can do accessory work however you want. I always liked doing triceps and facepulls with OHP/bench and biceps and mid delts with deadlift/squat. Just pick a couple accessories and do them for a couple sets

Like @rthor4573 said, it's important to stick with it whatever routine you choose. I wouldn't have even said anything but Stronglifts is an objectively terrible program... especially if you're lifting to look good

 

[Oldschool]

For real? You guys recommend sticking with the same program for six months?!?! Never heard of such a thing. Enlighten me.

 

[Test_Subject]

For real? You guys recommend sticking with the same program for six months?!?! Never heard of such a thing. Enlighten me.

Naw, I usually run a program for 8-12 weeks. Six months is a bit much, but you can get away with it when you're a beginner and trying to dial in your form on the heavy compound lifts.

Edit: grammar fail.

 

[Rival]

For real? You guys recommend sticking with the same program for six months?!?! Never heard of such a thing. Enlighten me.

Really depends on goals. For me for example I’ve been running the same strength/Hypertrophy hybrid program for about 8 months. Just because it’s the same program (mapped out for 12 months) it runs different phases of reps/sets and rotates different movements all based on strengthening my main compound movements.

I think that constantly changing programs when “you’re newish” sets you up for bad habits. People tend to blame the program first before really looking at their diet, sleep, etc..

Everyone’s different though, not written in stone. If a program is really bothersome and I hate it - been on it for at least 3 months and gave it a shot I’d be open to changing it. Nothing wrong with changing something that isn’t working. I just feel that giving something at least 3 months is best to gauge your results.