Test / T-Bol / HCG - First Cycle

[spameggsushi]

Hi guys!

About to start my first cycle and would like some input on how to insert HCG and my on-hand AI into the equation.

Stats: 28y/o - 5'11 - 178lb - 10-11% BF (solid eight pack)

Have been lifting on and off for 8 years and ran D1 track.

Weeks 1-12:
Test-E | 300mg on Tues 10AM and Fri 10PM (600mg total)

Weeks 1-12:
Arimidex | 0.5mg on Tues 10AM and Fri 10PM (1mg total)

Weeks 2-7:
T-Bol | 25mg ED for first week, bumped to 50mg thereafter

Weeks 2-14:
HCG | 250iu on Tues 10AM and Fri 10PM (500iu total)

Weeks 15-18
Nolvadex | ED 40mg for first two weeks, and 20mg for last 2 weeks


Questions:

1. I have pharma clomid, nolvadex, arimidex, aromasin, enclo, and HCG from ExpressPCT -- any revisions you'd like to make?

2. Because arimidex is non-suicidal AI - I am concerned about an estrogen rebound and wondering how aromasin would come into play and what dosage? (since it will destroy the aromatase enzyme)

3. When do you recommend I get my next labs to dial-in my estrogen? Current labs: Help me analyze my labs? Not entirely sure what to look for. Looking to do first cycle.

4. Am I retarded for not just doing a Test-E 300mg/week cycle?

5. Should I do a longer cycle?

6. Should I start HCG in the first or third week? Is it ok to use HCG during my 2 week gap between AAS and PCT?

7. Does HCG impact acne?

8. Anything else I'm missing?


I know I am asking a lot of questions here. I read the entire Steroids wiki (first cycle, estrogen handbook, injecting etc.) and it really made me aware of the risks here and I really want to make sure I'm doing this properly. Willing to pay ($) via Venmo for a consultation / coach if I'm asking way too many questions

 

[GreenAmine]

I can offer some advice:

Don't take the AI unless you experience high estrogen side effects. Some guys (like me) don't need an AI.

There seems to be 2 main viewpoints on dosage, especially pertaining to one's first cycle: 1) start low(er) and increase halfway through if gains are insufficient, and 2) start at 500-600 and stay the course. I like option 1 best, and it's how I structure all of my cycles with most compounds. It also can allow for a longer cycle since overall drug usage is lower. If you go this route, I would recommend a 16-week cycle as long as bloodwork looks acceptable.

Since this is your first cycle, wait on the Tbol; let your body equilibrate with the exogenous test and then introduce the second compound after you feel even-keeled (probably around week 6 or so, but listen to your body).

Since you're doing PCT, you can opt to take HCG throughout the entire cycle (in addition to the bridge between last dose and PCT) to help keep the gears turning, but this can also cause estrogen issues, especially during the first couple of weeks. AIs won't alleviate estrogen issues caused by HCG. Since HCG impacts hormones, it can definitely exacerbate acne.

 

[Jestopherson]

I agree. Add the tbol at the halfway point and finish with it.

Makes no sense to start it at week 2 and end on 7. Why spike your anabolism just under mid cycle just to drop it when you're barely halfway through?

I'd maybe up the dose to 400mg personally as for the AI I've used adex exclusively, never experienced some massive rebound, I simply just experience extra e2 again after a few days.

Don't dose it unless you need it

 

[spameggsushi]

Thanks guys! Really appreciate the words of wisdom. Know we're all busy and yet you guys have taken the time to help me.

I am not going to touch AI per advice until I start experiencing sides. I've been told to wait until week 5 to do labs.. is this ok? Or should I do earlier. What is a low arimidex amount? 0.25mg x2 per week?

Will start HCG on week 3.

Will do T-bol towards later half of the cycle.

Will bump cycle test cycle to 16 weeks.

I got scared and only injected 250mg... think I will go back up to 300mg as the difference is probably minor? Also feel like I wasted some of the solution and under dosed. Really don't want to do under 500mg. Have 3ML syringes -- maybe better to order 1MLs.

-----

My first pin was today and after pinning it hit me that there was no turning back. I pinned the VG perfectly after drawing Normandy invasions plans on my hip.

To my surprise the injection was completely painless even though the needle is an inch long. I was a bit shaky and collapsed afterwards after mentally psyching myself out LOL. The moment felt similar to when I lost my virginity.

My body temp feels higher than normal and to prevent acne I'm going to start on 20mg accutane per day (have two months extra supply left from doing my second round of Accutane).

Checked the scale right after the injection and unfortunately I am still 178lb so unfortunately it doesn't work instantly.

 

[GreenAmine]

You need to relax man; test is a very safe compound. The worst thing that could happen is a bit of a hormonal rollercoaster for the first few weeks. If injecting gives you that much anxiety, you could switch to subq injections (I will likely get flamed for that, but I stand by it). With 1-mL insulin syringes, 0.7 mL EOD would be 490 mg/week if your test is 200 mg/mL.

Getting bloodwork at week 5 is fine, that's plenty of time for the test to reach equilibrium in the blood.

As far as adex is concerned, start very low if needed; 0.25 mg is a decent amount of adex, as it is super potent. An alternative is to use something more gentle like diindolylmethane (DIM) or calcium d-glucarate to manage estrogen before using adex. Whatever you try, tread lightly... Crashing estrogen is no fun, and requires quite a bit of time to recover from. If it happens, I've heard of taking a birth control dose or 2 to increase estrogen quickly, but I would recommend researching that before trying.

 

[spameggsushi]

Awesome thanks - glad to hear that it is really safe. This is what I needed to hear - I'm going to stick to 300mg x2 a week (unless any protests here then will use the 1ML syringes for 250mg x2). Honestly have no issue with the injections - I was just overthinking and psyched myself out.

Will look into DIM and clacium d-glucarate. Thank you!

 

[limitphobic]

Everything the guys are saying is legit advice. Only thing I can think of adding to the convo is wait 4 weeks, not 3, to begin pct and throw in clomid. I prefer clomid over nolva because, yeah the emotional sides suck, but nolva is notorious for permanent vision damage. I skimmed so apologies if anybody covered this already, but a good reason to do one hormone and add only 1 addition to each cycle after is to see what sides you can expect from that ONE hormone. If you jump in with 2, ain’t no tellin which ones doin the bad business… other than all that, your stats look good and it seems like your doing your research which is refreshing.

 

[spameggsushi]

Wait I thought it was Clomid that causes permanent vision damage?

 

[GreenAmine]

Wait I thought it was Clomid that causes permanent vision damage?

Neither one is good for ocular health. They both are capable of causing retinopathy and cataracts (among other ocular issues), but it's my understanding that clomid is more likely to cause problems.

 

[limitphobic]

Everyone’s different but I stand by nolva as causing permanent eye damages and yes clomid causes eye problems too but I’d bet my next cycle it’s more prevalent in nolvadex (tamoxifen) and any vision problems I’ve experienced with clomid was quick to correct itself after I stopped taking it. Nolva, not so much.

 

[spameggsushi]

Thanks for the opinions guys! Due to Nolva + Clomid causing eye damage I've decided to skip PCT!

jk will do a better assessment of my options

 

[conqueror]

I agree. Add the tbol at the halfway point and finish with it.

Makes no sense to start it at week 2 and end on 7. Why spike your anabolism just under mid cycle just to drop it when you're barely halfway through?

I'd maybe up the dose to 400mg personally as for the AI I've used adex exclusively, never experienced some massive rebound, I simply just experience extra e2 again after a few days.

Don't dose it unless you need it

Yeah. Leave the best for last.

 

[juan.garcia]

Thanks for the opinions guys! Due to Nolva + Clomid causing eye damage I've decided to skip PCT!

jk will do a better assessment of my options

You can, if you are willing to commit to cruising/trt for the rest of your life. To start using steroids is to risk having to do that anyway. If you plan on doing lots of cycles, bnc is probably way healthier. But most are able and want to pct successfully after the first cycle at least.

 

[Juicy AF]

The TBol can fuck with your lipids a bit. I like 4K fish oil ED as well as 1800mg NAC ED as support.

 

[KevoTrains]

My body temp feels higher than normal and to prevent acne I'm going to start on 20mg accutane per day (have two months extra supply left from doing my second round of Accutane).

Are you prone to acne is this something your already on? Judging by your comment I would say yes.


I know it can be a little harsh I don't know all that much about it but I was told it should always be the absolute last resort.

You really went for the gusto 600 test on the first rip, nice

 

[spameggsushi]

Are you prone to acne is this something your already on? Judging by your comment I would say yes.


I know it can be a little harsh I don't know all that much about it but I was told it should always be the absolute last resort.

You really went for the gusto 600 test on the first rip, nice

Haha thanks - update:

Experienced no sides on 600mg test and turinabol except for 45 pounds of muscle/fat/water growth haha. I took TUDCA, NAC, Milk Thistle, fish oil, calcium, potassium, and a bunch of other supps. Can still see my abs as well. I'm on week 19 and ending the cycle on week 20. feeling really good. Would take 20mg of accutane after a really greasy meal. Did not get any acne while on cycle.

feel very lucky to have run into this forum as its really changed my life with the information, suppliers, but most of all really generous members who seem to love spreading their wealth of knowledge (the best)