It can definitely work. And one set to failure one set to some RIR is probably a decent place to land as far as a compromise to full failure.
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Straight sets vs. ramping sets for hypertrophy
- Thread starter Soloshino
- Start date
This is essentially a reverse pyramid method. Do you take both working sets to technical failure?
Complete mechanical failure.
A pyramid implies matched reps tho, as far as I’ve ever used the term. This method requires eliminating “junk volume” so you see the reps per set on the warmup decrease as weight goes up to save effort for the failure sets. Those warmups are like double digit RIR.
so do you usually fail midway through a rep or just stop once you just completed your last clean rep?
Also I think that a lot of volume trainees do mostly isolation movements, which are inherently inferior to compound exercises for growth. I’m doing only compound movements for the large body parts, excluding leg curls.
Exitcrafter
New Member
If I understand you correctly, you train according to a "HIT" and not according to a volume approach - with 2 effective work sets per exercise. Approximately how many exercises per workout/per muscle group do you perform? Is it like you said a total of about 6 per muscle group or generally 6 exercises during a whole workout day divided among the muscle groups you train?
Depends on the movement. If it’s safe to fail without a spotter I actually take failure to the point of my ROM shortening and only being less and less movement from the stretch. On something like presssing I typically use a spotter but also prefer machines to pressing where failing is safe.
Correct.
I work on a PPL with two push days, two leg days, one back day, and 2 off days which is based on my needs physique wise as is the breakdown of how many sets.movements are done per muscle group in each day.
So it’s 12-14 working sets per day, 5 days a week. Rough volume per muscle group over the week is 10 on chest, 10 on tris, 6 on delts, 4 on lats, 4 on upper back, 4 on biceps, 12 on quads, 12 on hams, 8 on calves. I recently added a “finisher” of 5x15 short of failure just to make sure I hit the pump/metabolite/burn as well, but as quickly as possible.
Applicable graphic I saw today from Brad Schoenfeld:
Your best course of action would be referring to Renaissance Periodisation on Youtube where Dr. Mike Israetel provides most, if not all, the training information you will ever need as a beginner, intermediate or advanced trainee. All his information is rooted in science and he has published two books called the scientific principles of hypertrophy. It is difficult to know who to trust. I.e. who is correct. I can see that some answers here are correct but some are wildly incorrect. You want all working sets to be within 4 reps of technical failure for optimum hypertrophy. Mike recommends you do not go to failure often as the stimulus to fatigue ratio is not favourable with regard to recovery time and there is very little hypertrophic reward for going to failure compared to staying at 1-2 reps from failure. Regarding volume/set numbers. It is completely individual dependent and volume requirements for each individuals multiple body parts will differ. Average volume requirements for all body parts can be found on the renaissance periodisation website. It is correct that volume is the main driver of hypertrophy, but only when the sets completed are within 4 reps of failure. Say, for example, you train chest twice a week. Start with 3 exercises on each day with 2 working sets for each. If you discover that you're chest has recovered on or before the day you are next due to train chest then add 1-2 working sets and repeat this process until you reach a point where you can no longer recover in time for the next chest session. If you are practicing periodisation then the best course of action would be to take a deload. If you are not you can adjust your volume and continue training with two sessions per week provided you continue to progress. If you fail to progress for 2 weeks in a row then it is best to take a deload. Any questions with regard to the information I have provided can be answered by Dr. Mike on the aforementioned youtube channel. Mike is highly accredited, has great integrity and is well respected in the bodybuilding, powerlifting and strength/weighlifting community so you need not be hesitant regarding the quality of the information he provides. He also appears on many many podcasts which can be found across varying platforms if you wish to tune into those also. Hope I have provided you with some help regarding your question.
MV = Maintenance Volume
MEV = Minimum effective volume
MAV = Minimum Adaptive Volume
MRV = Maximum recoverable volume
Again, these are averages and are not applicable to everyone. The use of anabolic steroids shifts these ranges both up and down, meaning enhanced individuals can get away with doing less volume and seeing results but also doing more volume without affecting recovery provided all other variables such as food, sleep are accounted for, with more volume being better for increased hypertrophic affect
As Mac said, I too do 2 sets to failure per movement with a similar number of movements and days per week following a PPL scheme and this approach has yielded the most growth for me. I definitely do not have great genetics
Warm ups followed by 1-2 super hard sets has made me stronger, but it has absolutely made me grow more than any other approach
Exitcrafter
New Member
I think it's interesting to see how low set volume seems to work. I myself have been training with high volume for years, but I am in the process of switching because the lower volume, higher intensity approach ( less reps in reserve) seems to work better for many ( maybe for me too?). My problem, however, is that I have a difficult to accept that a workout with, for example, 5 Effective Work Sets for Chest is really enough. I'm usually in the gym for +1 hour. If I were to train like this I am completely done in under 30-45 minutes.
For a single body part, 1hr sounds about right for 2 sets to failure per movement. You should be resting for 2-3m between sets.
It definitely takes adjustment. But for a “bro split” you can go higher daily volume because typically a single muscle group like chest would only get trained 1x week.
oh so youre just going to disregard everything he has ever said because you disagree with his thoughts of full ROM? Nice logic there mate, your loss. What an awful way of thinking.
In response to the full ROM argument. He has clarified on many occasions that you complete the full range of motion that is safely possible for you given your anatomical structure, mobility etc. There are many benefits to full ROM training beyond the realms of optimal hypertrophic response, such as joint health and longevity, but one of his main arguments for full ROM, from what I know, is that it makes it much easier to standardise the range of motion of the rep. If range of motion is standardised, along with tempo and general rep/set execution then it is much easier to know if you are actually training with progressive overload as it eliminates a huge variable. It is also much easier for logging reps/sets as it is not possible for you to accurately log anything other than full ROM reps week after week. It is also worth noting that Dr. Mike Israetel has spent the overwhelming majority of his life studying, applying and teaching training principles for strength and hypertrophy.
To claim he loses credibility because you disagree with one thing he says, which is supported by both science and decades of real work experience, is absurd.
My experience is that a lot of professional BBers who use low volume built most of their original size with higher volume routines and then mostly maintain with lower volume.
Dude. Relax.
I liked your post and said he’s just becoming dumb about it.
You sound like yet another dickrider taking a sole source as gospel. There is also no science behind locking out your knees in leg press or squats.
But yeah. I even tried to delete my post in time to avoid this dumb conversation. Wasn’t quick enough.
Because most of us started when that’s all info/methods we saw from the pros we wanted to be when we grew up.
We now have infinitely more knowledge than in the early 2000s. But whatever you call it, HIT being a popular label, has been around forever.
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Last I checked, leg presses and squats were not the only movements performed by those in pursuit of total body hypertrophy but Im going to assume those examples were intentionally chosen for exaggerative effect.
I was also responding to what was implied by the wording of your response, which greatly differs from your intentions, now that you have clarified.
Anyway, not trying to get into an argument or piss anyone off here, just offer some advice to the poor misfortune I originally replied to and uphold the value of science.
This feels like a dumb question, but how long do you rest between your warm-up sets when building up on them?
Not a dumb question. Long enough that there’s no carried over fatigue. Most important when going from warmup to first working set. Otherwise, it’s really just about getting in the groove for that movement and getting the muscles/joints ready to work. I have a hard trim prescribing warmups exactly because everyone’s different. Do what you need but try to avoid excessive work.
