MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
First cycle. Starting 250 Test C a week and at week 4 including 50 MG Var. Is it enough to see changes or should I up the Test?
- Thread starter Zanezanezz
- Start date
RedViking
Banned
Honestly it's a good starting dose to see how you react, but i would personally up it to at least 400-500mg per week and make the most out of my first cycle. You will feel most effects after week 5
Zanezanezz
New Member
Reduced fat on stomach
malfeasance
Member
That's diet. Period. Maybe share your diet plan and whether you are sticking to it?
malfeasance
Member
It takes a while. I'd say you ought to notice something different at weeks 3-4, if your diet and training are good, but I have never run a cycle at 250 a week, so I cannot comment on it.
My first cycle way back when was 500 a week, and it was magical, but my diet was also great. I had some bodybuilders help me put together a diet, which I started weeks before the cycle, and I did not deviate from it the entire cycle. I definitely got leaner and grew at the same time.
The gains never come that easily again.
HeatherSwanson
Member
I'm a less is more guy, but that's just me.
250mg a week is where I land at the end of a cycle. Var at 50mg ED will require liver protocol and not drinking alcohol, again that's just my opinion. I've used as much as a gram a week, all that did was made me grouchy and Hornier than a two dicked donkey.
You have body fat to cut to get the most out of a cycle. Get your diet absolutely dialled and then you'll really be able to see where you land. Higher body fat individuals are prone to sides and lesser results. I can attest to this personally, when I was fat many years ago and all of a sudden was dealing with bullshit that I otherwise didn't have to think about.
With good gear and bloods in spec you'll start to feel the full effects 4-5 weeks in normally. Again, you'll get the most out of the AAS with diet being on point. I'm talking chopsticking grains of rice out of a container to get to the fucking gram in the meal prep. The more psycho the more results. Don't snack and don't use condiments.
Best of luck!
250mg a week is where I land at the end of a cycle. Var at 50mg ED will require liver protocol and not drinking alcohol, again that's just my opinion. I've used as much as a gram a week, all that did was made me grouchy and Hornier than a two dicked donkey.
You have body fat to cut to get the most out of a cycle. Get your diet absolutely dialled and then you'll really be able to see where you land. Higher body fat individuals are prone to sides and lesser results. I can attest to this personally, when I was fat many years ago and all of a sudden was dealing with bullshit that I otherwise didn't have to think about.
With good gear and bloods in spec you'll start to feel the full effects 4-5 weeks in normally. Again, you'll get the most out of the AAS with diet being on point. I'm talking chopsticking grains of rice out of a container to get to the fucking gram in the meal prep. The more psycho the more results. Don't snack and don't use condiments.
Best of luck!
Not to be a dick but you look like someone who shouldn’t have jumped on peds right away. What’s your lifting experience?
On the other hand, that testosterone number might be hindering your progress and recovery. Anyway, you should be feeling effects of higher testosterone levels around the 3rd week already, libido, pumps and recovery should have increased already. Gains or fat loss depends on your diet though.
Btw, don’t expect too much if you have not dialed your diet and training. Don’t expect too much like peds will magically change your body right away, at least not for a person with normal genetics.
On the other hand, that testosterone number might be hindering your progress and recovery. Anyway, you should be feeling effects of higher testosterone levels around the 3rd week already, libido, pumps and recovery should have increased already. Gains or fat loss depends on your diet though.
Btw, don’t expect too much if you have not dialed your diet and training. Don’t expect too much like peds will magically change your body right away, at least not for a person with normal genetics.
lukiss96
Member
You're in no need for steroids. Expect mediocre results. Social media/youtube really did the damage over the years
malfeasance
Member
Really?
My first cycle, I went from 186 (after many years of lifting naturally), smooth, to 206, in a shape that non-bodybuilding folks called "ripped" and looked like one of those Greek God statues. True story here - a woman audibly moaned when I walked by on the beach. Her friends giggled, and she said, "Did I do that out loud?" I had no illusions about how different I looked from three months prior. I actually met my wife during this time (not her, lol), who was too young for me and out of my league, but she actively pursued me - I am sure my physical appearance after my first cycle had something to do with that.
That one cycle was life changing.
Of course, then I knew I would do it again, lol. That lead to more and more use and abuse and finally competing in bodybuilding and an eventual off season weight of 251 before I stopped the insanity and focused more on health.
But I think if folks are not saying "Wow, you look muscly" after one cycle, then you probably did something drastically wrong, or you did not do everything rightly. Three months of 500mg weekly of testosterone and dedicated no excuses training and a specific, planned diet with no cheating should result in a very drastic difference in physical appearance.
Well, you wanna tell me that you gained 20 ibs, 9kg in three months lean pure muscles, no water, ripped and looked like a Greek god in 3 months ?? !! You must have a phenomenal genetics.
malfeasance
Member
Obviously, there was water. Nevertheless, the difference in physical appearance was drastic, and, once I stopped, the water dropped off, and I looked even better. You left out that I got much leaner, too, at the same time.
No, I do not have phenomenal genetics. In fact, I always thought I had the shitty end of the deal. But it was pretty amazing the change when training was pushed heavily and my diet was designed by bodybuilders - most guys do not do all that. They have a shitty training program, they eat whatever, and they wonder why three months of injecting steroids does not make all that drastic of a change.
Done right, it should make a very drastic change. Done right means everything, not just some testosterone. Diet matters, a lot, especially to the OP who is posting about needing to lose belly fat.
Like I posted above in post #5, that's diet.
No, I do not have phenomenal genetics. In fact, I always thought I had the shitty end of the deal. But it was pretty amazing the change when training was pushed heavily and my diet was designed by bodybuilders - most guys do not do all that. They have a shitty training program, they eat whatever, and they wonder why three months of injecting steroids does not make all that drastic of a change.
Done right, it should make a very drastic change. Done right means everything, not just some testosterone. Diet matters, a lot, especially to the OP who is posting about needing to lose belly fat.
Like I posted above in post #5, that's diet.
malfeasance
Member
Just look at how little traffic the Nutrition forum here gets. That tells you all you need to know about results here and "genetics."
I stand by my original proposition, that a first cycle ought to be very transformative. Your physique should look completely different after. If it doesn't you did something wrong. That can be avoided by proper planning ahead of the cycle. Start the diet ahead of the cycle, too.
No cycle will ever again be as good as the first one.
I stand by my original proposition, that a first cycle ought to be very transformative. Your physique should look completely different after. If it doesn't you did something wrong. That can be avoided by proper planning ahead of the cycle. Start the diet ahead of the cycle, too.
No cycle will ever again be as good as the first one.
malfeasance
Member
I am not trying to pick a fight on the internet, or pick at you, individually (I promise I am not), but 6 cycles ought to be all that is needed for competing on stage as an amateur, or at least getting very close to it.
Folks whose results are subpar maybe should get a coach - and I am not one and so not trying to drum up business.
6 cycles should put a person there with the right guidance if they cannot do all of that planning themselves.
Jin23
Member
He should start by doing more research. I don't understand the point of such posts. Is it just making casual conversation, or is he trolling or wanting attention ...
Jin23
Member
Honestly, stop using mg's and start using ng/dl. For somebody 250 mg's is 2500 ng/dl, for somebody else it's 1250 ng/dl.
Eddie.
Member
I like your approach and it makes absolute sense but if we start measuring ng/dl what numbers would reflect to a light, mid and high cycle?
Also, that way it makes a huge difference if you pin sq instead of im and more frequent - less frequent regarding numbers.
So, hypothetically 250mg divided in 2 shots IM per week gives 2000ng/dl a day after the 125mg pin and 3 days after the pin blood levels go to 1650. Let's say we average it in 1800ng/dl.
If instead of 2 shot IM per week we went to ED injection subq and 250mg per week give us 1300ng/dl it means we have more milligrams room to achieve the same anabolism?
If in that way we need 350mg instead of 250 to reach a steady 1800ng/dl does that mean both dosage protocolls are the same taxing to our bodies? I'm just thinking out loud, i agree with your point but i have no idea how the above translate in practice.
Jin23
Member
I really don't see any insurmountable obstacles, especially comparing to the current designations in use, ie. milligrams, which can be much more far off than the peak/through variable.
There is no need for simplification as this is not a "simple" game that we are playing. Just denote your serum blood levels, describe your pinning protocol and when the bloods were drawn (peak or through) - imo it is more customary to always draw bloods next day from pin, ie. peak.
R
readalot
Guest
Decent shortcut graph and table to convert between pinning frequencies...
thinksteroids.com
Of course the table is a shortcut. Plotting your points on the graph will give you decent understanding of your percentile response.
Tool to Assess your TT dose response --Percentile Curves
Continuing the dose response thread over here. This would be a great place to crowdsource data. https://forums.t-nation.com/t/tool-to-assess-your-tt-dose-response-percentile-curves/277628 https://thinksteroids.com/community/threads/readalot-aka-tareload-introduction.134419973/post-3171563 I...
thinksteroids.com
Of course the table is a shortcut. Plotting your points on the graph will give you decent understanding of your percentile response.
