It's in the Egrifta document itself on page 8
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MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Qingdao Sigma Chemical Co., Ltd (International, US, EU, Canada and Australia domestic
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Trailmixed
Member
Great read. Came with receipts. Thanks man. Not sure if it matters, but I wonder if there is any variability if this is applied to UGL Tesa. Obviously, no way to for sure know since there are no studies on the matter for UGL. But that was a nice document to skim through on the immunogenicity heading.
It may or may not be applicable. Then again the paients trialed on Egrifta weren't healthy either. There is a Tesamorelin study on healthy individuals but they did not assess for immunogenicity
Ghoul
Member
[
You will certainly make friends among the know-nothings here who'll latch onto your post, They're not arguing based on facts. have done no research, and have a personal beef with me.
I'll dismantle your commentary piece by piece. In individual posts.
Let me start by saying aggregates inducing immunogenicity is not my "theory". That claim alone demonstrates the lack of effort on your part.
I'll document everything I say. Will you?
You will certainly make friends among the know-nothings here who'll latch onto your post, They're not arguing based on facts. have done no research, and have a personal beef with me.
I'll dismantle your commentary piece by piece. In individual posts.
Let me start by saying aggregates inducing immunogenicity is not my "theory". That claim alone demonstrates the lack of effort on your part.
I'll document everything I say. Will you?
Compare length scales above vs 5 um or 0.2 um filter.
Enjoy:
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Yep. I don't usually like posting things like this, so as not to make people slack up on their precautions regarding filtering. not all immunogenicity is the same. Not all users of peptides are the same. Not all therapeutic proteins are the same.
Trailmixed
Member
Very true. Safe side is definitely filtering. Each filter is only $0.50 anyways haha, just a minute more in the grand scheme of the reconstitution process. Not too bad IMO
Like when you consider that a rate of grievous immune reaction of 0.5 in 10,000 will absolutely cause a drug to be discarded.. It puts a lot of things into perspective. You don't wanna be that 0.5 group, but that rate means if 7 people are going through something on a forum like meso for example, it is unlikely to be that thing. Hence my common things occur commonly mantra.
Ghoul
Member
This is common "knuckle dragger" logic and reveals the sheer ignorance on the topic.
"This immunogenicity stuff impacts the sick and weak, not us strong healthy bodybuilders."
Immunogenicity is more pronounced in healthy people with a vigorous immune system.
Read that again and think about it.
A healthy immune system reacts, and develops immunity to neutralize perceived "threats" far more strongly and effectively than those with a weakened immune system.
Who's going to have a stronger immune response? A healthy person, or the fucking immunocompromised AIDS patients in the Egrifta trial?
Again, I need to emphasize this because it's the point where any rational person would determine anyone with such a lack of basic understanding has no credibility on this topic. None. How could they?
The greatest risk from severe immunogenic reactions. the ones that go beyond merely reducing efficacy of a drug into life threatening reactions are HEALTHY VOLUNTEERS in clinical trials. Several of these incidents prompted the FDA to require far more immunogenicity testing before a peptide could be injected into any human volunteers.
Bruh.. Because i restrained myself from calling out the exagerration and fiction you posted about Erythropoetin alpha the other day..
You just went and googled up stuff without doing proper research and winged it. I let it be because It was of no value to that discussion, but you overestimate your grasp of some of these things and grossly underestimate the competence of others.
AlexDavis43
Member
It's always good to have other sides of the argument and alternate opinions presented.
Otherwise some might see the implications relating filtering peptides to preventing mad cow disease or autoimmunity. When the end point can simply be no change in efficacy.
egruberman
Member
I get this thing:
For that price I get test total and free, comprehensive metabolic panel, FSH, LH, CBC, SHBG, and Estradiol.
I can't find anything like that for anywhere near that price on their site now.
Those are your outstanding rates bro.
1.4 cases/year for ever 10,000 persons using it.
the peak was 4.5 people for ever 10,000 people with chronic kidney disease.
of course this is a disaster. Drugs are not supposed to worsen a disease, but come on bro!
Common things occur commonly!!!
Should we worry about immunogenicity, of course. This is a harm reduction forum, but please, some of us know what the fuck we are talking about.
191 cases world wide. 59 cases since 2002-2009 (world wide)
AlexDavis43
Member
Bruh.. Because i restrained myself from calling out the exagerration and fiction you posted about Erythropoetin alpha the other day..
You just went and googled up stuff without doing proper research and winged it. I let it be because It was of no value to that discussion, but you overestimate your grasp of some of these things and grossly underestimate the competence of others.
You can't have a healthy discussion or disagreement with some people. He calls people low IQ retards all the time (eg, 1 & 2).
Microsoft Study Finds AI Makes Human Cognition “Atrophied and Unprepared”
jung
Member
I use Call-on-Doc for bloodwork. Literally copy and paste all the labcorp labs I want; like 33 tests I think; hand over those lab codes to Call-on-Doc; give some very vague list of symptoms (poor sleep, hormonal support, low sex drive, etc.) to tie to the labs requested, pay the $39 consultation fee; Call-on-Doc then submits the request to my insurance. My insurance barely covers anything for preventative blood work, but they cover 100% of diagnostic based bloodwork. They don't say a word or push back on anything I submit; just need it to be relevant to the diagnostic code/symptoms.
So I end up getting about $500-$600 of super fancy panels and labs for $39. I do this multiple times a year. Granted not everyone's insurance may do that, so you have to call your insurance up and ask how they deal with diagnostic vs preventative labs. FYI, I just have an average BCBS PPO plan. It does not go against my deductible. It's just covered.
$39 for over $500 worth of labs if I was cash pay? I haven't seen any deal beat that yet.
So I end up getting about $500-$600 of super fancy panels and labs for $39. I do this multiple times a year. Granted not everyone's insurance may do that, so you have to call your insurance up and ask how they deal with diagnostic vs preventative labs. FYI, I just have an average BCBS PPO plan. It does not go against my deductible. It's just covered.
$39 for over $500 worth of labs if I was cash pay? I haven't seen any deal beat that yet.
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Healthy people will react differently. They may have stronger immunity, but they may also have better clearance of the tesamorelin antibody. My specific mention of Healthy people is that we don't know if healthy people will have cross reactivity with growth hormone releasing hormone. But the study have performed on healthy individuals showed efficacy of Tesa in healthy people over a year. I just figured that if immunogenicity and neutralizing antibody was stronger, efficacy will be affected and this will skew results between AD and Placebo groups or at least affect P values regarding efficacy? That of course is extrapolation on my part, but reasonable. Which is why added no immunologic tests were performed on that group
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