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[OldGHGuy]

hgh and tirz are completely different, i have never had a non hgh peptide get cloudy, but have had some hgh be cloudy, thats a poor example comparin* the two,, whats another vial of hgh look like in comparison? tia

Respectfully, HGH should NOT be cloudy. Decision to use it is an individual one based on risk tolerance.

 

[Ateam2023]

Respectfully, HGH should NOT be cloudy. Decision to use it is an individual one based on risk tolerance.

thanks for "stating the obvious ",, i never said to use cloudy hgh , just my personal experience, i always toss the cloudy crap(qsc) away, ,

 

[canes]

This idiot is telling the forum not to trust Jano’s tests. Think about that for a second.

It has been debated and discussed with Jano several times.

 

[Ghoul]

He's a dumbass and this has been debated and discussed with Jano several times.

What, lol?

It's not a matter of trust, his tests are fine, but no single test is fully capable of determining if rHGH is made properly.

rHGH has a structure that's as important to its activity as the amino acid chain. Improperly folded rHGH won't bind to GH receptors.

Jano's testing doesn't detect structure for proper folding. Pharma uses a bioassay after HPLC on every batch to check for proper binding to verify proper structure, but there are other methods.

To check folding pay Jano for an NMR test, which he offers.

So what "debate" are you talking about?

There's nothing to debate.

@BamaCrazy Please educate us on why this is incorrect, because if you can't, all you're doing is casting doubt on accurate information with lies.

@janoshik

 

[janoshik]

What, lol?

It's not a matter of trust, his tests are fine, but no single test is fully capable of determining if rHGH is made properly.

rHGH has a structure that's as important to its activity as the amino acid chain. Improperly folded rHGH won't bind to GH receptors.

Jano's testing doesn't detect structure for proper folding. Pharma uses a bioassay after HPLC on every batch to check for proper binding to verify proper structure, but there are other methods.

To check folding pay Jano for an NMR test, which he offers.

So what "debate" are you talking about?

There's nothing to debate.

@BamaCrazy Please educate us on why this is incorrect, because if you can't, all you're doing is casting doubt on accurate information with lies.

@janoshik

If I recall correctly then bioassay is, on the contrary, required only once for a particular product. USP<951>

I also find it rather difficult to believe that something would influence bioactivity in a manner significant enough while not being noted on any other of the routine tests, but that's just my opinion.

Cheers

 

[BamaCrazy]

What, lol?

It's not a matter of trust, his tests are fine, but no single test is fully capable of determining if rHGH is made properly.

rHGH has a structure that's as important to its activity as the amino acid chain. Improperly folded rHGH won't bind to GH receptors.

Jano's testing doesn't detect structure for proper folding. Pharma uses a bioassay after HPLC on every batch to check for proper binding to verify proper structure, but there are other methods.

To check folding pay Jano for an NMR test, which he offers.

So what "debate" are you talking about?

There's nothing to debate.

@BamaCrazy Please educate us on why this is incorrect, because if you can't, all you're doing is casting doubt on accurate information with lies.

@janoshik

@Ghoul would never try to discount @janoshik testing. Or would he?

Here are just a few of his posts about Jano.

Jano's testing doesn't detect structure for proper folding. Pharma uses a bioassay after HPLC on every batch to check for proper binding to verify proper structure, but there are other methods.

There's a lot more to efficacy than a simple measurement of the active ingredient.

Clowns are all about "the science" unless that science comes from somewhere other than Jano's HPLC machine.

Just preempting the nonsensical distortion of Jano's results we may hear, that there's no longer a justification to call out vendors for vials without vacuum, because "it doesn't hurt anything, Jano proved it.".

Though especially for rHGH, because it's exceptionally complex, it applies to all peptides. The way in which these are being tested doesn't capture the way these compounds degrade.

The stuff that reconstitutes cloudy, ie aggregates, still ends up with 96%+ purity on Jano tests.

Jano's testing leaves a lot to be desired in terms of detecting what constitutes degradation.

There's more to it than just purity.

No one can answer this question without testing that goes beyond what Jano does,

These claims are based on a flawed testing methodology that doesn't measure the loss of stability, backed up by "feels" that "prove" if it has any effect, it's "fine".

I recently read a study that measured degeneration the way Jano did in the studies used to claim Tirzapatide is impervious. When they corrected the error, purity went from approx 95% to 65%.

The very basic testing that Jano does for these small private groups does not overturn the facts that thousands of scientists who develop and work with peptides every day have established over 60 years.

Flawed tests. You don't see what's not being measured. There is no testing of aggregation or the amount of active ingredient lost as a result. Jano's basic testing is not overturning what the rest of science has long established as fact.

It's you who presumes every batch of UGL Tirz has the same stability, or that Jano's basic $200 test disproves the science established by hundreds of the world's top chemists.

You realize Jano is running a small analysis lab. He's awesome and a great asset to the community. But he's not a biochemist, pharmaceutical engineer or medical researcher. In other words, being able to analyze a sample doesn't make him an authority in all things pharma.

 

[Flatriggerman]

Opti Tirz 3 days in. Took 2.5 mg Sunday night. This is the first time I've taken a GLP. Monday appetite was 50%. Tues and Today I have little interest in eating. I have protein bars for breakfast and small meals like a shake.

This is the most bizarre feeling and still trying to wrap my head around it. A touch of nausea but tolerable. I'm sure my body will get used to it.

 

[glpfun]

I told my doctor I was doing tren and he said that isn’t real and to stop making things up

 

[canes]

If I recall correctly then bioassay is, on the contrary, required only once for a particular product. USP<951>

I also find it rather difficult to believe that something would influence bioactivity in a manner significant enough while not being noted on any other of the routine tests, but that's just my opinion.

Cheers

Lmaoooooooo. I didnt even need to respond. Jano did it for me.

 

[canes]

@Opti

I know cap colors dont mean anything, but noticed I received light blue flip off caps for HGH 10iu. The recent jano test shows a flat royal blue cap.

Just wanted to verify these are the same batch or is there another vendor test coming.

Guess I'll send one off to Jano.

 

[AlexDavis43]

@Ghoul would never try to discount @janoshik testing. Or would he?

Here are just a few of his posts about Jano.

Jano's testing doesn't detect structure for proper folding. Pharma uses a bioassay after HPLC on every batch to check for proper binding to verify proper structure, but there are other methods.

There's a lot more to efficacy than a simple measurement of the active ingredient.

Clowns are all about "the science" unless that science comes from somewhere other than Jano's HPLC machine.

Just preempting the nonsensical distortion of Jano's results we may hear, that there's no longer a justification to call out vendors for vials without vacuum, because "it doesn't hurt anything, Jano proved it.".

Though especially for rHGH, because it's exceptionally complex, it applies to all peptides. The way in which these are being tested doesn't capture the way these compounds degrade.

The stuff that reconstitutes cloudy, ie aggregates, still ends up with 96%+ purity on Jano tests.

Jano's testing leaves a lot to be desired in terms of detecting what constitutes degradation.

There's more to it than just purity.

No one can answer this question without testing that goes beyond what Jano does,

These claims are based on a flawed testing methodology that doesn't measure the loss of stability, backed up by "feels" that "prove" if it has any effect, it's "fine".

I recently read a study that measured degeneration the way Jano did in the studies used to claim Tirzapatide is impervious. When they corrected the error, purity went from approx 95% to 65%.

The very basic testing that Jano does for these small private groups does not overturn the facts that thousands of scientists who develop and work with peptides every day have established over 60 years.

Flawed tests. You don't see what's not being measured. There is no testing of aggregation or the amount of active ingredient lost as a result. Jano's basic testing is not overturning what the rest of science has long established as fact.

It's you who presumes every batch of UGL Tirz has the same stability, or that Jano's basic $200 test disproves the science established by hundreds of the world's top chemists.

You realize Jano is running a small analysis lab. He's awesome and a great asset to the community. But he's not a biochemist, pharmaceutical engineer or medical researcher. In other words, being able to analyze a sample doesn't make him an authority in all things pharma.

A lot of Appeal to Authority in there. A logical fallacy indicating cognitive bias.

 

[BamaCrazy]

A lot of Appeal to Authority in there. A logical fallacy indicating cognitive bias.

My favorite one is “But he's not a biochemist, pharmaceutical engineer or medical researcher. In other words, being able to analyze a sample “doesn't make him an authority in all things pharma.”

A day doesn’t go by where Ghoul isn’t pretending to be an authority in all things. lol

 

[glpfun]

Appealing to authority would be like, “Joe Rogan said DMT makes you a genius so it must be true”, not “A respected domain expert says x and x is within their expertise so it must be true”. You have to appeal to authority somewhere down the line of reasoning by accepting certain truths determined by former authorities. The fallacy comes from irrational usage of it aka the former example vs the latter example

 

[AlexDavis43]

Appealing to authority would be like, “Joe Rogan said DMT makes you a genius so it must be true”, not “A respected domain expert says x and x is within their expertise so it must be true”. You have to appeal to authority somewhere down the line of reasoning by accepting certain truths determined by former authorities. The fallacy comes from irrational usage of it aka the former example vs the latter example

Just saying "the top experts in the world agree" is an appeal to authority

Name one, be specific, and let's see what they actually said

When that's done, we can check if other experts say something different to see if it's cherry picking

Cherry picking is very common and may not be intentional

 

[malfeasance]

Appealing to authority would be like, “Joe Rogan said DMT makes you a genius so it must be true”, not “A respected domain expert says x and x is within their expertise so it must be true”. You have to appeal to authority somewhere down the line of reasoning by accepting certain truths determined by former authorities. The fallacy comes from irrational usage of it aka the former example vs the latter example

Not 100% completely true but close enough.

An appeal to even a respected authority in the field if offered all by itself with no other justification or argument is still an appeal to authority fallacy, but given the entirety of your post I do not think that is what you meant.

Certainly even respected authorities in a field can disagree.

I am not taking testosterone, because my doctor, an endocrinologist, says a testosterone level of 260 is just fine at my age . . .

At some point there is a scientific consensus, or there is other evidence to support the claim, and so on.

Providing relevant studies along with the claim by an eminent scientist in the field would not be a fallacy.

 

[AlexDavis43]

Not 100% completely true but close enough.

An appeal to even a respected authority in the field if offered all by itself with no other justification or argument is still an appeal to authority fallacy, but given the entirety of your post I do not think that is what you meant.

Certainly even respected authorities in a field can disagree.

I am not taking testosterone, because my doctor, an endocrinologist, says a testosterone level of 260 is just fine at my age . . .

At some point there is a scientific consensus, or there is other evidence to support the claim, and so on.

Providing relevant studies along with the claim by an eminent scientist in the field would not be a fallacy.

Exactly, about respected authorities disagreeing. Happens all the time.

Which makes cherry picking all the more common.

Easy to find someone who supports your bias and overlook dissenting opinions. That's not always intentional but sometimes just happens automatically. We're all human.

 

[Sagnastymuscle]

I haven’t had any of the recent black tops,
When I did run them I never seen anything cloudy like the pictures you shared

 

[MB101]

View attachment 329760
@Ateam2023 Okay knowledge to me. I honestly didn’t know. I had ordered both from Opti so I was just using that as a comparison. So in the pic the middle vial is the Tirz so disregard it.

3 vials are mixed with 1ML bac and 3 with 1.2ML. The lower filled vial is the what’s left after I took the first shot.

What was the outcome with Opti

 

[LA_1988]

I haven’t had any of the recent black tops,
When I did run them I never seen anything cloudy like the pictures you shared

I reached out to Opti and everything was handled very professionally. I’m going to give his blue tops a go.

 

[Redbeard008]

Product delivered! Order went smoothly. Sat back and waited and arrived 6 days later. Package was well put together and discreet @Opti