MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Giant Semaglutide Thread (and other GLP-1 / GIP agonists)
- Thread starter Doodle
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the~club~bro
New Member
Yep agree, that is the pattern I have observed to date. However, when I look at my data, that rule seems to be breaking down which got me questioning the UGL sema.
I´ll run through it:
In order to break my plateau back in Feb of 180lb I had to go from 0.5mg to 0.75mg which took me all the way down to a low of 170lb and then floated around 170-175lb. (this is legit novo pens, 1mg pens)
After starting the test of 250mg/week, I gradually increased in weight over those 7 weeks to 180lb today but this time on 1.5mg of UGL sema a week as my novo pens ran out.
Im fairly certain the increase after starting the test is not fat gain, i am (in my opinion anyways) significantly fuller from the testosterone. I look leaner, fuller, bigger. (also, strength up, recovery up, hiking ability up, everything is just up up up, its great)
Lets say the novo sema of 0.75mg took me down to 175lb and the test has put 5lb of lean mass on (glycogen, water retention, maybe some muscle accrual in those 7 weeks etc), we should expect 0.75mg of UGL sema to be as effective, and yet 1.5mg was having the same outcome on hunger as 0.75mg pharma.
the~club~bro
New Member
The fact you dropped 25lb and then regained 15lb (net loss, 10lb) doesn´t strike me as odd, because I experience this too. I lose weight in steps, I´ll hit a new low, bounce off that low by a few pound (usually 5lb in my case) and float around that weight for a while. I speculate I drop a lot of water weight, maybe because of a hard hike or whatever, which brings about a crazy low, but afterwards I super compensate, glycogen refills and I settle in at a true number which reflects actual fat tissue loss.
But you´re saying that you´re FATTER (carrying more fat mass?) on 10mg than what you were on 5mg? You should clarify that point because it doesnt seem right at all. What about if you compare waist size to tirz dose. Is your waist larger on 10mg than 5mg? I just find it impossible to believe.
No matter what the scale says, my jeans, trousers, shorts etc, are all progressively looser while on a GLP1, never has it gone in reverse.
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what I meant is that now on 10mg I feel less appetite suppression that I used to feel at 5mg and I am 15lbs up from the lowest weight 5mg got me to. I just started 10mg tho so I was hoping to drop these 15lbs again and stay there since that was my goal.
Basically 5mg got me to loose a lot, then it started to loose some effect and I regained some weight, now I went to 10 to try and loose it again but the appetite suppression is still not as prominent
Ghoul
Member
Yeah, the analogy of each dose level of a GLP setting the body to a particular target "weight setting" for an individual, with effects weakening the closer one gets to that target is oversimplified for clarity, It's '
applicable in most cases, since weight loss and muscle mass increase is a rare combo.
It's more accurate to say GLPs set a certain "fat mass" per dose, because the signaling the body uses to maintain energy (not weight) homeostasis is guided by hormones generated by fat, not by some sense of weight. Since fat represents stores of surplus energy, this makes sense for a system that's regulating energy intake (appetite) to meet needs and maintain a certain reserve supply. GLPs turn the setting lower, but if weight from fat is being replaced by weight from muscle, I would expect appetite suppression to be lower.
oldmanwilliams
Member
Wow that's awesome news since I just got the TR30 from them. I was using Semaglutide, then I had to switch to QSC Tirzepatide. And it never seemed to work. While I didn't gain tons of weight, I did gain some, and it just seemed to not blunt hunger at all. It was nowhere near Semaglutide. I was asking whether my particular product sucked or whether Tirzepatide just wasn't for me. So I am very curious how TR30 will be. I am thrilled to hear what you just wrote.
Ghoul
Member
What dose of Sema were you on when you switched and what dose did you use on tirz?
oldmanwilliams
Member
Then I'm screwed and have immunogenicity taking place. Why? I used QSC Semaglutide. I kept a few frozen vials. I switched to Tirzepatide for like 8 months. I then ran out and took the old frozen QSC Semaglutide. And it was NOT effective as it was. Same batch. I basically injected 5mg QSC in a week and barely felt anything. Where before, 2.5mg has my hunger extremely suppressed. Unless I needed much longer for these doses to build up in my body, then it is a bad sign.
oldmanwilliams
Member
I was on 2.5mg. When I switched to Tirzepatide I began with 5mg every few days and then went to 7.5mg weekly. I stayed there because I didn't have a large supply and I didn't feel confident that the next dosage would be substantially different. Was I wrong?
Ghoul
Member
If you developed antidrug antibodies that caused a reduction in effectiveness (and immunogenicity like this has happened with other pharma GLP class drugs), it often fades after a switch to another brand of the same peptide reducing exposure to whatever contaminants caused it.
In some cases a short break will allow immunogenicity to fade.
Only rarely is immunogenicity long lasting.
Odds are, you either won't have an issue with the new batch or only a short term problem that'll fade.
To reduce the odds of any issues make sure you aim for a volume of .5 ml per dose of Tirz. Higher volume is fine, lower volume (greater concentration) enhances immunogenicity risk.
It's not uncommon to need 10mg Tirz to start when switching from 2.4mg Sema, That was the case for me. Nothing at 7.5mg but 10mg was effective.
oldmanwilliams
Member
Thank you Ghoul. By the way, I love your contributions so thanks for that. It's a tremendous asset.
But minimizing immunogenicity.......is that a cope to make me feel better? Because I have read some of your stuff on that.....and it is scary. I'm very concerned about it. But you think it will fade or be different enough batch to batch? That would be great.
I thought I could accidentally avoid immunogenicity by taking low dose hydroxychloroquine........maybe it didn't work, or maybe it did.
Thanks for the experience tip on the Tirzepatide dosage. Since I've only take 5mg Semaglutide in the past week or so, and I plan on switching to Tirzepatide, what dose would you recommend I start with initially?
Ghoul
Member
It's a low probability, high consequence type of risk. The worst case scenarios are real, and have happened. But they are rare.....with pharma produced protein/peptide therapeutics.
The risk level of UGL peptides is completely unknown, and undoubtedly higher because the precautions taken to avoid immunogenicity by pharma / FDA are very extensive, aren't used by UGL at all.
Still, even the lesser consequences of low level immunogenicity are unwanted (who wants weakening effectiveness of a peptide?) and worth the easy steps needed to minimize them.
Proper storage, reconstitution, dose and frequency. Filtering.
The fact the same steps reduce the worst potential risks, and while rare can be very bad, life altering potentially, on some unknown timeframe that could be years in the future, is a welcome bonus.
Since you're not "GLP naive", 7.5mg is a reasonable starting dose imo.
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CubanQuentin
Member
Well, after having to wait for a while I've finally started on the sema. Dumb me didn't get the long loading needles as I expected to have a vial of BAC water by this point but that didn't happen (customs caught it, I expect a love letter and a fine in a couple months lol) so I had to use the ampoules. Lost a bit of the water (around 10% of 1 ml) so I've taken this into account regarding how much to draw from the vial from now on (luckily, I am good at math). I'll have to figure something out to get BAC water, ideally not UGL...
Before this I had experience with injections but only injecting on other people so it wasn't really that complicated all things considered. I'll admit I was a bit nervous but needles in general make me squimish so I also expected that to happen. Started at 0.25 mg this morning (european time)
I fasted the day before, as one of the effects is gastric emptying, and I didn't want to have food still digesting in my digestive tract that could cause issues. This would mean that today is 'day 2 of fasting', usually a point where I get really really hungry... but nothing. There's a bit of the physical feeling of my stomach being empty and nothing else. I scrolled on instagram for a bit and found some food videos, even one with fried rice (one of my favorite things to eat lol), and no hunger. I forcefully think of food, no hunger, and no ravenous need to raid my entire pantry either. I honestly don't know if the drug is really supposed to work this fast or this is partially placebo but I don't really care. It's working
For side effects I've had no nausea, no stomach aches, a bit of extra "gas" coming out, and I had a bit of a tingling sensation that was either hypoglicemia or nocebo effect - at any rate it went away after eating one candy so all good
In all my time researching and reading about the gym/fitness in general I never understood what the skinny types meant by "force-feeding" but I might legit have to start doing that if this keeps up lmao. And, as I suspected, I'll probably have to stick to the 0.25 mg titration dose for longer than the 4 weeks as the effects on this dose are more than enough
Before this I had experience with injections but only injecting on other people so it wasn't really that complicated all things considered. I'll admit I was a bit nervous but needles in general make me squimish so I also expected that to happen. Started at 0.25 mg this morning (european time)
I fasted the day before, as one of the effects is gastric emptying, and I didn't want to have food still digesting in my digestive tract that could cause issues. This would mean that today is 'day 2 of fasting', usually a point where I get really really hungry... but nothing. There's a bit of the physical feeling of my stomach being empty and nothing else. I scrolled on instagram for a bit and found some food videos, even one with fried rice (one of my favorite things to eat lol), and no hunger. I forcefully think of food, no hunger, and no ravenous need to raid my entire pantry either. I honestly don't know if the drug is really supposed to work this fast or this is partially placebo but I don't really care. It's working
For side effects I've had no nausea, no stomach aches, a bit of extra "gas" coming out, and I had a bit of a tingling sensation that was either hypoglicemia or nocebo effect - at any rate it went away after eating one candy so all good
In all my time researching and reading about the gym/fitness in general I never understood what the skinny types meant by "force-feeding" but I might legit have to start doing that if this keeps up lmao. And, as I suspected, I'll probably have to stick to the 0.25 mg titration dose for longer than the 4 weeks as the effects on this dose are more than enough
Ghoul
Member
Smartest approach to GLP use I've seen in a while.
Your physical limitations on eating, the one's if exceeded will make you physically ill an hour or more later, are mostly driven by volume, and to an extent by fat. Not calories.
A simple failsafe approach is "protein first". Hit your protein target with the volume you can eat, then eat other things as you can manage them.
For instance, firm vegetables take up a lot of your limited volume capacity, so better to stick with them cooked to a soft texture. I enjoy raw vegetables, but had to give them up early in my GLP use to ensure sufficient protein intake.
Once I was on maintainance I was able to incorporate them back into my diet. Funny thing is I have more freedom to eat whatever I like than ever before, because small quantities are so satisfying, there's no real chance of damage being done from indulging in "bad" foods from time to time.
You guys know where I can get 4mm 0.22um sterile filters for an acceptable price? I have 25mm filters but for tirz they are too big, all of the liquid got stuck in the filter and I had to wash it out with more bac water and I still lost about 1/3 of the product. I looked for 4mm filters but they are expensive af. Anyone know a source with a decent peice for them?
damn, I'm in EU too but I didn't know bac water was considered controlled substance. Good that I got sterile water and BA then
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oh so that's why eating lots of avocadoes and eggs made feel sick when I first started tirz. Good to know, since I had a reduction of effectivness of tirz (weight regain, I now upped the dose from 5mg to 10mg) I'll increase my fat intake and decrease my carbs to see if it controlles my appetite better. I didn't think about it because before tirz high fat low carb diets didn't reduce my appetite at all, even increased it.
I've also been doing 24 h fasts, not really on a specific schedule, just 1 day every 7-10days. If the higher dose suppresses my appetite more I'll go to 2 fasts per week (for health and longevity purposes, not to speed up weight loss).
I did a 48h fast 3 times and a 72h fast twice but for me they were horrible. I felt bad during as well as for a few days after. 24h seems the sweet spot for me.
Ghoul
Member
Just get 13mm Cobetter filters. The holdup volume is minuscule. Less than 2 units on an insulin syringe. And dilute to the higher end of the range so injection volume of whatever dose you're using is between .3-.8ml. If you dilute with 2 or 3 ml that <2 units becomes even less relevant.
Sterile 0.2 μm PES Syringe Filters
Hydrophilic PES syringe filters with single or double-layer membrane. Pore sizes of 0.2μm. Diameter of 13mm/25mm/33mm with Luer lock. Sterile individually packed.
shop.cobetter.com
You'll likely find those pricey 4mm filters clog up fast sometimes, and you'll need 2 or 3 per vial.
thank you very much. Is it fine if I dlute to 2ml per injection to minimize the amount lost?Just get 13mm Cobetter filters. The holdup volume is minuscule. Less than 2 units on an insulin syringe. And dilute to the higher end of the range so injection volume of whatever dose you're using is between .3-.8ml. If you dilute with 2 or 3 ml that <2 units becomes even less relevant.
Sterile 0.2 μm PES Syringe Filters
Hydrophilic PES syringe filters with single or double-layer membrane. Pore sizes of 0.2μm. Diameter of 13mm/25mm/33mm with Luer lock. Sterile individually packed.
You'll likely find those pricey 4mm filters clog up fast sometimes, and you'll need 2 or 3 per vial.
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