In addition, I have never taken Serostim. I have taken Omnitrope and I can say that there was no difference. But apparently serostim is different. So let’s see!
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
USA Serostim Source - Pharmaceutical HGH
- Thread starter Serono
- Start date
Spaceman Spiff
Subscriber
Hopefully you get on the list. I haven't done Omnitrope but I have been on Serostim for maybe about a year now. Was supposed to be a few month....
Prior to that was Generics for 2 years
Cool. I am looking forward to trying it.
Hey all, been a long time since I have been able to add any new people. At one point I had an extensive wait list, I had to delete as it was just getting insanely long, and it is far too difficult to add people that way.
I have the ability to take on 1 person right now. If you are already a pharma GH user, and plan to be for the foreseeable future, and looking for the most reliable source in the game, shoot over an email.
Will need to make sure it is a good fit, but first come, first served.
Thanks!
I have the ability to take on 1 person right now. If you are already a pharma GH user, and plan to be for the foreseeable future, and looking for the most reliable source in the game, shoot over an email.
Will need to make sure it is a good fit, but first come, first served.
Thanks!
How would you compare the two? High quality generics vs pharma.
AlexDavis43
Member
I don't think anyone here (especially Spiff) has run low quality generic GH
Seems all UGL hGH is pretty much the same shit and Jano said there is variance to the testing, so 95% purity could be 97% or 93% if repeated
(please wait until Jano comments about the testing procedure before any more "Jano GH tests are bullshit" speculation & fearmongering)
Photon
Member
No comparison. If you have the opportunity to use Seros, do it.
If you get the opportunity to use this vendor you are fortunate indeed. A+. Simply incredible source if you have the $$$. Thank you Serono.
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Ive seen no dif in pharm hgh and generics. Ive ran gh from the Nordic days.
Glad you are satisfied and found a system that works for you.
N.B. ...
Host cell protein - Wikipedia
Those with autoimmune issues may want to pay attention.
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Spaceman Spiff
Subscriber
I don't think many people can tell the difference. I can't tell the difference of 92-98% hgh.
There is a difference of serostim vs generics... Is it worth it?? That's up to you
It's a luxury to buy it and I need the money on hand right now . I am not longer running it
I still would prefer to run serostims. But my wallet doesn't
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I'll delete mine too. Thank you.
Now that's something when a vendor can get us to agree.
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Ghoul
Member
From behind the paywall a look at the black market for GH. A few years old, nothing earth shattering (poor storage and transport degrades rHGH) but the bibliography is a small treasure chest cataloging studies of the illicit rHGH market and its use as a PED,
One of those references, the supra-physiologic dose study of very rapid heart remodeling (left ventricular hypertrophy) in healthy subjects using ~5iu and ~10iu short term is an eye opener....also attached.
It also links increased heart rate to the high levels of fatty acids dumped into the blood by GH at the start of use. So both cardio and time should see RHR decline if someone stays at the same dose, and a good reason to titrate slowly if high heart rate needs to be minimized.
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bigdaddyandfriends
Member
Thanks for posting those.
Started GH at 3iu and at the time anything over that caused carpal tunnel symptoms. Couple years later I have titrated up to 7iu/day. I stay around 90kg, and based on that article will not exceed 8iu/day to keep below that 0.03mg/kg/d threshold.
GH definitely does increase my resting heart rate, as does Retatrutide which I also use at 1mg three times a week. I use nebivolol + ARB for blood pressure, but the GH/Reta increases in heart rate seem to not be relieved much, if at all, by β1-adrenergic blockage.
It has done wonders for my skin/hair/nails, joints, overall recovery and improves muscle fullness to some degree even though I eat a carb-restricted (not keto) diet most days of the week. I don't believe I have accrued much extra muscle tissue from using it; I've read 9iu/day is a threshold for significant hyperplasia, so probably will never get that effect. It may improve my sleep, but does not make me particularly tired - unlike IGF1-LR3 which knocks my ass out if I don't eat high carbs after taking it, I use that on my high food days.
Overall I like GH but it hasn't been quite the transformative agent I thought it would be, unlike androgens which completely changed my body and mental state - both in a very good way. My total androgen dose is in the high TRT range, but I use low testosterone and add derivates.
Have only used good generic GH (Meditrope, SSA, K4L, Opti) but have a couple Serostim kits in the fridge which I have been saving for when I am off a maintenance phase. Hopefully I don't like it much better as the generic is now very cheap and Serostim seems to keep getting more expensive.
Ghoul
Member
GH raises RHR multiple ways, not all related to beta receptors. and Tirz/Reta raises it by inhibiting the vagal nerve's ability to slow heart rate (it's a long story) and a beta blocker is only partially effective for that.
Ivabradine acts directly on the heart rate control circuit, irrespective of what's causing high heart rate. It doesn't lower BP.
If your blood pressure is well controlled, you can leave Nebiv/Telm alone, and add Ivabradine.
Start at 2.5 x2/day. After a week if RHR is under 60, stay at that dose, otherwise you can titrate to 5mg x2/day, wait a week, if RHR is under 60, stay at that dose. Max is 7.5 x2/day.
If RHR drops below 50 lower the dose.
This is the starting point. There aren't many contraindications for Ivabradine, but as always, do your own homework first before using.
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bigdaddyandfriends
Member
Thank you, will add to my next pct24x7 order. I was researching it recently.
Doesn’t seem to be used much with PEDs but seems like it might be worth trying. My RHR isn’t high enough to be a problem at 75-85, higher with activity of course, but would prefer to see it lower.
My job is stressful, as is the wife a few times a month, so the β1 blockade is still useful!
I had diastolic hypertension before I began using any PEDs and was out on azilsartan for that. With no history of cardiac events, seems debatable whether it warrants treatment but with PEDs taking a ARB certainly seems wise.
Doesn’t seem to be used much with PEDs but seems like it might be worth trying. My RHR isn’t high enough to be a problem at 75-85, higher with activity of course, but would prefer to see it lower.
My job is stressful, as is the wife a few times a month, so the β1 blockade is still useful!
I had diastolic hypertension before I began using any PEDs and was out on azilsartan for that. With no history of cardiac events, seems debatable whether it warrants treatment but with PEDs taking a ARB certainly seems wise.
Ghoul
Member
Personally I wouldn't add a med at that RHR. It's in the high normal range. Maybe just get some to keep on hand in case it goes over 90.
You mentioned high stress, and Nebiv's beta blocker "side effect" of relieving it, I'll just bring something to your attention since you're going to be ordering India pharma.
I'm not sure where your BP is, you're obviously taking an ARB / BB for it, or if you have any reason to avoid CCBs (which are almost always prescribed before a BB, often the last choice by docs), but you may want to consider Cilnidipine if there's "room" for BP to go down slightly more.
You know beta blockers prevent noradrenaline from binding to receptors attenuating the physical stress response, especially in the heart. It's a limited set of beta receptors, depending on which BB is being used, so not everything impacted by stress will get relief.
Cilnidipine's unique addition of "Calcium N channel" blocking to the usual CCB "L channel" block stops noradrenaline from being released by sympathetic nerves.
So this combo of less noradrenaline being released systemically (which does keep everything more relaxed when psychological stress tries to "tighten" up muscles and arteries), and Nebiv able to more effectively block the reduced amount of noradrenaline, has patients reporting feeling "loose" during stressful situations where they'd usually be tensing up, BP increasing, tension headaches, face turning red, etc.
I can tell you from first hand experience I've noticed this effect since switching to Ciln. When your body stops physically reacting to stress, it breaks the vicious cycle and your mind stays chill too, so you cool off a lot faster.
This happens without the sedation / dizziness of increasing the beta blocker dose.
MDT is a "Mirror drawing test" designed to be frustrating to induce stress. You can see an almost 40% drop in the high stress state noradrenaline blood levels from using just a 10mg dose. (MDT 1 is really "baseline", since nifedipine doesn't do anything to noradrenaline)
You'd be looking at an additional 8-10 drop in systolic. and 5-7 in diastolic.
Systolic down to 100 is still safe and in normal range, diastolic should be kept above 60.
So if after that additional drop you'd still be above 100/60, you have room to consider adding it and see if it works to keep the physical reaction to stress down even better than Nebiv is now.
You'll also see a slight drop in RHR, around 3-4.
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bigdaddyandfriends
Member
Wow thank you for all that!
Just researched and very interested in trying it. Have never tried a Ca calcium channel blocker, I know they are first line treatment for African Americans, but ARBs are preferred for others - genetic differences I suppose. My mother was taking amlodipine and atenolol for a long time (my high blood pressure is inherited from her) and she had a lot of bad sides including significant lower extremity edema; I had her doc switch her to telmisartan and her blood pressure is now perfectly controlled without any med-related issues. But she's in her 80s and has never touched PEDs.
Was hoping to just send in a prescription for Cilnidipine and go and pick it up at the pharmacy but alas it is not on the USA formulary, like many other excellent drugs... tieneptine 12.5mg (as an antidepressant) for instance.
Messaging PCT about Ivabradine which is not on his list, but hopefully he can source it (he did that for Pitavastatin when I inquired about it). He has Cilnidipine but it is kind of pricey, there is even a 5/40 combo pill with telmisartan which might be perfect. But I pay $1.67 per day for the Azilsartan and it's not quite enough by itself. Even with 80mg Azilsartan, 10mg Nebivolol (taken more for heart rate than blood pressure control obviously), and 10mg taladalafil I run high during the day, but borderline low at night with RHR acceptable but higher than I prefer, sometimes I notice it when trying to fall asleep. A trial of Cilnidipine/Telmisartan and Ivabradine (in lieu of Azilsartan/Nebivolol) seems warranted.
I do keep Catapres/clonidine on hand but have not resorted to using it.
it's probably worth reposting your content in a dedicated thread about blood pressure and RHR management on PEDs, so others can find it... will get lost in this Serostim thread.
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