Hair Loss

[appealmaxed]

I mean, just the mechanisms of androgenic alopecia (the most common cause of hair loss) tell you that you should hop on fin/dut after a transplant:
1. androgens on your scalp binding to your hair follicles gave you hair loss
2. you get extra follices on your skull
3. those androgens on your scalp aren't dealt with
4. your shiny new hair follices die like the ones before them did

We don't need the reincarnation of Einstein to tell us what happens if you don't deal with the root issue here

that’s not actually why it’s advised to use fin/dut after a hair transplant.

Hairs from the doner area are resistant to androgens. The transplanted hairs are from the doner area and remain androgen resistant when placed on the top of your head. They won’t be affected by androgens. Problem is all the other hairs on your scalp that aren’t androgen resistant still get miniaturised by androgens. So your hair loss will keep progressing and all the rest of your hair gets thinner etc and you’ll eventually be left with only the transplanted hairs on your scalp.

 

[Ghoul]

I mean, just the mechanisms of androgenic alopecia (the most common cause of hair loss) tell you that you should hop on fin/dut after a transplant:
1. androgens on your scalp binding to your hair follicles gave you hair loss
2. you get extra follices on your skull
3. those androgens on your scalp aren't dealt with
4. your shiny new hair follices die like the ones before them did

We don't need the reincarnation of Einstein to tell us what happens if you don't deal with the root issue here

It's worse because usually DHT resistant donors are being mixed into areas with DHT sensitive hair remnants, so further loss is in a weird unnatural pattern, with the original existing hairs being lost first, and the more durable transplants left behind.

 

[JuiceStick]

I mean, just the mechanisms of androgenic alopecia (the most common cause of hair loss) tell you that you should hop on fin/dut after a transplant:
1. androgens on your scalp binding to your hair follicles gave you hair loss
2. you get extra follices on your skull
3. those androgens on your scalp aren't dealt with
4. your shiny new hair follices die like the ones before them did

We don't need the reincarnation of Einstein to tell us what happens if you don't deal with the root issue here

The new follicles don't die because of DHT if your transplant was done right. Correct donor area is DHT resistant.

 

[the~club~bro]

I've gone down the hair loss rabbit hole and now that I understand that any remaining follicle, no matter how small, as long as it isn't truly dead, can be saved and brought back to life, you have to question why anyone wouldn't run dutasteride or finasteride if they are undergoing a hair transplant. These compounds will literally allow you to use less donor hairs or place more donor hairs in a more concentrated area for a better result. When I look at the areas of my scalp which have receded, I see many tiny, fine hairs, open pores which to the naked eye have no hair follicle, but aren't dead, all of these can be brought back to life, all of them represent 1 less donor required from the donor areas, all of them represent the possibility of the thickest and fullest head of hair you can achieve given your level of recession.

Also, now I understand the life cycle of a hair follicle, I am literally ROFLing at the broscience anecdotes of 'I ran x compound for 2 weeks and my hair fell out'. Lets make the distinction between transient hair loss and permanent hair loss. Running a compound for 2 weeks is not going to nuke an entire hair follicle and send it to an early grave.

This has now brought to me obvious cycle design choices to the fore and the blindingly obvious need to allow your hair to be in a much less stressed state during your cruises.

Other obvious choices start to become apparent and reveal themselves, such as simple combinations of test and GH along with a 5AR. What a fantastic combo to control hair loss while on PEDs. Any other compounds ought to be used sparingly and cycled. It seems to me that you can certainly run other compounds but they must be the exception, not the rule, and the time off those compounds must be significantly greater than on, so that you allow you hair follicles to recover from the temporary stress they were under. When you decide to 'blast' should also be dictated by the heath of your hairs.

If there are hairs which show signs of miniaturisation, I'd keep to a test/gh cruise and persist with fin or dut treatment. These drugs will bring those hairs back to a healthy state. Once whatever hairs you have are all in a healthy state (and from what I've read, dut/fin can achieve this in 12-18 months) then you can run short cycles with other compounds, but at least your hairs at this point in time are as healthy as they can be and are more likely to weather a short blast.

I've got my order in for finasteride. I'd prefer to run the dutasteride, as from what I've read it is far more efficacious, but I can't source it at a reasonable price, and so I will begin with finasteride until I can get a few years worth of dutasteride.

I think that I could turn my NW V to a NW IV by running either dut/fin with the crown having the most potential for regrowth and thickness, to the extend I'd think it probably wouldn't even require any transplanted hairs. My understanding is beard hair can be used for the crown, which is great, as this means you can use donor scalp follicles purely for the frontal area.

Hair transplants are a NUMBERS GAME and anything you can do to pump those numbers is going to tilt you towards more success and a better result.

 

[Orc419]

I had a question on prevention of hair loss while running conpounds in addition to exogenous testosterone. So obviously a 5-alpha reductase is used to prevent conversion of test to DHT, but does it have any effect on other testosterone analogues?

Say, for example, I ran test + tren for a cycle. Would the tren, known for contributing to hair loss be nullified by a 5-alpha reductase or is the mechanism of action different for tren (i.e. binds directly to the follicle receptors)? And if it is, would a compound like RU58841, which competes for the androgen receptors, be more appropriate?

 

[BigDadd7]

I've gone down the hair loss rabbit hole and now that I understand that any remaining follicle, no matter how small, as long as it isn't truly dead, can be saved and brought back to life, you have to question why anyone wouldn't run dutasteride or finasteride if they are undergoing a hair transplant. These compounds will literally allow you to use less donor hairs or place more donor hairs in a more concentrated area for a better result. When I look at the areas of my scalp which have receded, I see many tiny, fine hairs, open pores which to the naked eye have no hair follicle, but aren't dead, all of these can be brought back to life, all of them represent 1 less donor required from the donor areas, all of them represent the possibility of the thickest and fullest head of hair you can achieve given your level of recession.

Also, now I understand the life cycle of a hair follicle, I am literally ROFLing at the broscience anecdotes of 'I ran x compound for 2 weeks and my hair fell out'. Lets make the distinction between transient hair loss and permanent hair loss. Running a compound for 2 weeks is not going to nuke an entire hair follicle and send it to an early grave.

This has now brought to me obvious cycle design choices to the fore and the blindingly obvious need to allow your hair to be in a much less stressed state during your cruises.

Other obvious choices start to become apparent and reveal themselves, such as simple combinations of test and GH along with a 5AR. What a fantastic combo to control hair loss while on PEDs. Any other compounds ought to be used sparingly and cycled. It seems to me that you can certainly run other compounds but they must be the exception, not the rule, and the time off those compounds must be significantly greater than on, so that you allow you hair follicles to recover from the temporary stress they were under. When you decide to 'blast' should also be dictated by the heath of your hairs.

If there are hairs which show signs of miniaturisation, I'd keep to a test/gh cruise and persist with fin or dut treatment. These drugs will bring those hairs back to a healthy state. Once whatever hairs you have are all in a healthy state (and from what I've read, dut/fin can achieve this in 12-18 months) then you can run short cycles with other compounds, but at least your hairs at this point in time are as healthy as they can be and are more likely to weather a short blast.

I've got my order in for finasteride. I'd prefer to run the dutasteride, as from what I've read it is far more efficacious, but I can't source it at a reasonable price, and so I will begin with finasteride until I can get a few years worth of dutasteride.

I think that I could turn my NW V to a NW IV by running either dut/fin with the crown having the most potential for regrowth and thickness, to the extend I'd think it probably wouldn't even require any transplanted hairs. My understanding is beard hair can be used for the crown, which is great, as this means you can use donor scalp follicles purely for the frontal area.

Hair transplants are a NUMBERS GAME and anything you can do to pump those numbers is going to tilt you towards more success and a better result.

Dut pharma is pennies per dose. What do you mean you can't source it cheap?

 

[Ghoul]

I had a question on prevention of hair loss while running conpounds in addition to exogenous testosterone. So obviously a 5-alpha reductase is used to prevent conversion of test to DHT, but does it have any effect on other testosterone analogues?

Say, for example, I ran test + tren for a cycle. Would the tren, known for contributing to hair loss be nullified by a 5-alpha reductase or is the mechanism of action different for tren (i.e. binds directly to the follicle receptors)? And if it is, would a compound like RU58841, which competes for the androgen receptors, be more appropriate?

5-ARs have no direct action on follicles.

However, damage to follicles isn't linear to DHT exposure. A 10% increase could speed up loss (miniaturization) by 30%. You still have baseline DHT that can be knocked out with 5-ARs, leaving receptors all over the body free to absorb exogenous DHT before reaching the scalp. And since DHT based compounds are often run alongside high test doses, 5-AR inhibition becomes even more valuable,

It's not about absolutes, but keeping the follicle hiring fire to a minimum. I'm one of those who can feel the effects of high DHT on my scalp (a low grade pain/ sensitivity/ burning), unfortunately followed by thinning on the affected area some time later, and small changes in DHT levels make all the difference. A slightly higher, or earlier TRT dose can be enough to reinflame my scalp.

In my opinion, in this order:

-5-AR (A low, side effect free dose, preferably Dut). Maybe topical if you're willing to commit to it.
-Oral Minoxidil 2.5mg (twice a day if you can handle it)
-Ketoconozole 2%,shampoo left on 5 mins twice a week.

Is the most potent, proven hair protection stack.

 

[AlexDavis43]

you have to question why anyone wouldn't run dutasteride or finasteride if they are undergoing a hair transplant

DHT is making a resurgence again on some other forums, so depending on where you get your information, could impact your decision to inhibit 5AR

Seen topical DHT formulations and even injectable DHT enanthate

Common user feedback is that they like it for improved mood and libido

Everyone is still doing hair loss prevention with Rogaine and I've convinced a few to add micro-needling for a couple minutes once a week (drastically improves the efficacy of topical minoxidil)

 

[chadisbeingmade]

As crazy as it sounds, what about using 40mg Dut? 2.5mg rids of ~79% of scalp DHT. 40mg is ~98%. If you are dealing with natural Test levels, ~79% may well be enough, but what if you want to continue using moderate - high test while also regrowing miniaturised hair follicles? That extra suppression at high test levels would make a difference.



It’s been used for 7 days with no adverse effects.



It does seem that it would affect lipids slightly but this is due to the effects it would have on the liver, not the Dut itself.

Dual-5α-Reductase Inhibition Promotes Hepatic Lipid Accumulation in Man - PubMed

Dual-SRD5A inhibition with dutasteride is associated with increased intrahepatic lipid accumulation.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

You would be able to run high dose Test only without any scalp DHT essentially. Add RU on-top and you can deal with any scalp Test easily. There would be the issue with hepatotoxicity, however if you use while only in cycle with high dose test I don’t see why it would be an issue.

(40mg Dut isn’t an issue with chinese powder sourcing)

 

[the~club~bro]

Dut pharma is pennies per dose. What do you mean you can't source it cheap?

If you're referring to Indian sources, which I think you are, it's not possible to get them into Europe.

 

[jeramiahusain]

If you're referring to Indian sources, which I think you are, it's not possible to get them into Europe.

why not?

if china packs are passing thru with no trouble, whats diff about india?

 

[grappl3]

If you're referring to Indian sources, which I think you are, it's not possible to get them into Europe.

You can order dut from SSA for cheap

 

[appealmaxed]

I've gone down the hair loss rabbit hole and now that I understand that any remaining follicle, no matter how small, as long as it isn't truly dead, can be saved and brought back to life, you have to question why anyone wouldn't run dutasteride or finasteride if they are undergoing a hair transplant. These compounds will literally allow you to use less donor hairs or place more donor hairs in a more concentrated area for a better result. When I look at the areas of my scalp which have receded, I see many tiny, fine hairs, open pores which to the naked eye have no hair follicle, but aren't dead, all of these can be brought back to life, all of them represent 1 less donor required from the donor areas, all of them represent the possibility of the thickest and fullest head of hair you can achieve given your level of recession.

Also, now I understand the life cycle of a hair follicle, I am literally ROFLing at the broscience anecdotes of 'I ran x compound for 2 weeks and my hair fell out'. Lets make the distinction between transient hair loss and permanent hair loss. Running a compound for 2 weeks is not going to nuke an entire hair follicle and send it to an early grave.

This has now brought to me obvious cycle design choices to the fore and the blindingly obvious need to allow your hair to be in a much less stressed state during your cruises.

Other obvious choices start to become apparent and reveal themselves, such as simple combinations of test and GH along with a 5AR. What a fantastic combo to control hair loss while on PEDs. Any other compounds ought to be used sparingly and cycled. It seems to me that you can certainly run other compounds but they must be the exception, not the rule, and the time off those compounds must be significantly greater than on, so that you allow you hair follicles to recover from the temporary stress they were under. When you decide to 'blast' should also be dictated by the heath of your hairs.

If there are hairs which show signs of miniaturisation, I'd keep to a test/gh cruise and persist with fin or dut treatment. These drugs will bring those hairs back to a healthy state. Once whatever hairs you have are all in a healthy state (and from what I've read, dut/fin can achieve this in 12-18 months) then you can run short cycles with other compounds, but at least your hairs at this point in time are as healthy as they can be and are more likely to weather a short blast.

I've got my order in for finasteride. I'd prefer to run the dutasteride, as from what I've read it is far more efficacious, but I can't source it at a reasonable price, and so I will begin with finasteride until I can get a few years worth of dutasteride.

I think that I could turn my NW V to a NW IV by running either dut/fin with the crown having the most potential for regrowth and thickness, to the extend I'd think it probably wouldn't even require any transplanted hairs. My understanding is beard hair can be used for the crown, which is great, as this means you can use donor scalp follicles purely for the frontal area.

Hair transplants are a NUMBERS GAME and anything you can do to pump those numbers is going to tilt you towards more success and a better result.

How long do you think it would take for hair to fully unminaturise when using Dutasteride and a topical anti androgen like RU.

I’m using 2.5mg Dut atm and using RU topically every day which should leave my scalp practically androgen free.

I am wanting to do a blast with just Test and GH but don’t want to harm or slow down any hair progress I would be making. I was thinking I could continue to make progress on 500mg Test and GH but I don’t think that’s a wise choice atm.

 

[Ghoul]

If you're referring to Indian sources, which I think you are, it's not possible to get them into Europe.

PCTzone's EU shop has Dutaheal. A solid tab for easy splitting and micro dosing, but make sure to take it with some food that contains fat for proper absorption.

 

[Ghoul]

How long do you think it would take for hair to fully unminaturise when using Dutasteride and a topical anti androgen like RU.

I’m using 2.5mg Dut atm and using RU topically every day which should leave my scalp practically androgen free.

I am wanting to do a blast with just Test and GH but don’t want to harm or slow down any hair progress I would be making. I was thinking I could continue to make progress on 500mg Test and GH but I don’t think that’s a wise choice atm.

Hair will never fully unminiaturize. You can't unburn a candle. But typically initial improvements visible after 6 months, significant improvements after 12, plateaus at 24 months, and slow improvements / maintainance from year 3-5.

 

[appealmaxed]

Hair will never fully unminiaturize. You can't unburn a candle. But typically initial improvements visible after 6 months, significant improvements after 12, plateaus at 24 months, and slow improvements / maintainance from year 3-5.

why would you say it can’t fully unminaturise? presuming there is little to no androgenic activity at the scalp (which is the case with Dut 2.5 and ru), you would be able to achieve your original density and thickeners provided that the hair follicle is indeed just miniaturised and not fully dead.

I’ve noticed good it’s thickened up and it’s been 3 months on Dut and 2 on RU. Temples are also showing vellus hairs starting to becoming dark.

 

[Orc419]

5-ARs have no direct action on follicles.

However, damage to follicles isn't linear to DHT exposure. A 10% increase could speed up loss (miniaturization) by 30%. You still have baseline DHT that can be knocked out with 5-ARs, leaving receptors all over the body free to absorb exogenous DHT before reaching the scalp. And since DHT based compounds are often run alongside high test doses, 5-AR inhibition becomes even more valuable,

It's not about absolutes, but keeping the follicle hiring fire to a minimum. I'm one of those who can feel the effects of high DHT on my scalp (a low grade pain/ sensitivity/ burning), unfortunately followed by thinning on the affected area some time later, and small changes in DHT levels make all the difference. A slightly higher, or earlier TRT dose can be enough to reinflame my scalp.

In my opinion, in this order:

-5-AR (A low, side effect free dose, preferably Dut). Maybe topical if you're willing to commit to it.
-Oral Minoxidil 2.5mg (twice a day if you can handle it)
-Ketoconozole 2%,shampoo left on 5 mins twice a week.

Is the most potent, proven hair protection stack.

Ah I didn't consider DHT binding elsewhere in the body as a factor. Thanks for the reply.

As you seem quite knowledgeable on this subject I wanted to know your opion on RU. I would think that it would be the optimal compound to use for prevention of follicle miniturization while running testerone derivatives as it competes with androgens for the androgen receptors in the scalp. Since 5AR will not help, with say nandrolone (and actually hurts with inhibition of reduction to DHN), from binding to androgen receptors in the scalp, wouldn't RU be the better choice?

 

[the~club~bro]

why not?

if china packs are passing thru with no trouble, whats diff about india?

My understanding is the Indians are too honest on the customs declaration (for Indian compliance reasons) compared to the Chinese who (thankfully) don't give a shit.

 

[the~club~bro]

You can order dut from SSA for cheap

Yep, this would be a last resort, think. I would prefer cheap pharma generics where possible but if I really struggle the sigma audley dutasteride will be an option. And at 19 us bux for 100 1mg pills it is very inexpensive.

 

[the~club~bro]

PCTzone's EU shop has Dutaheal. A solid tab for easy splitting and micro dosing, but make sure to take it with some food that contains fat for proper absorption.

Thnx, I've bookmarked this for later, they're currently out of stock.