A GH and fat loss protocol (rhGH lipolysis) that is science-based

[Ghoul]

are we talking im vs sub q here? just so im clear? tia

No, Dapagliflozin vs Jardiance

 

[Ghoul]

Yup, single IM injection using a pen in ventroglute first thing in the morning. I have been using Optitropin. It is my first run with GH. My weight more or less looked like it stalled for about 6-8 weeks as I dealt with water weight but I trusted it was working!

I'm doing it totally fasted though, so I guess not exactly following the protocol. This thread helped me understand that eating a small amount with the GH will increase IGF-1 more, and for the moment being new to GH, cutting weight, and more focused on lipolysis, I'd rather have lower IGF-1 (another reason for me to do IM vs subq since the IGF-1 response is ~90% IM vs subq iirc). Got bloods taken same day as DEXA so I'll be able to compare with what I was getting with 2iu subq at night soon.

Only real sides were bloating and a tiny bit of carpal tunnel.

I'm starting to get a general sense of well-being for the morning/afternoon after taking the GH. Seems to be improving over time, or maybe I'm just becoming better at noticing it. Wish it lasted longer, but I'm not taking GH for feelz, its just a nice bonus.

I suspect part of the "well being" thing comes from the rHGH boost in lung capacity and respiration efficiency. I notice it especially during periods of very high exertion. I never resort to breathing through my mouth regardless of workload, even at high temps and altitudes, and it's noticeably deeper than before.

 

[drbeefsupreme]

I suspect part of the "well being" thing comes from the rHGH boost in lung capacity and respiration efficiency. I notice it especially during periods of very high exertion. I never resort to breathing through my mouth regardless of workload, even at high temps and altitudes, and it's noticeably deeper than before.

Huh that's really interesting. Didn't know HGH did that. I quit smoking+nicotine a couple months before I started HGH and figured that my lung capacity increase was entirely from that. I am well acquainted with the benefits of breath exercises, pranayama, etc so I could definitely see how a change in breathing pattern created by increased lung capacity could make all kinds of small improvements.

 

[OldGHGuy]

I'm not answering for @Type-IIx on the merits of IM GH, but anyone advising mixing oil and water in a single injection is dangerously misinformed. All that's going to do is create an emulsion, which is something medical pros know is risky and to be avoided. Keep oil and water based compounds seperate.

Its Dr. Todd Lee. He doesn't even LOOK healthy, so I won't be following anything he says anyway! Timebomb there...

 

[Photon]

are we talking im vs sub q here? just so im clear? tia

Lol
We are comparing 2 SGLTs.
Sorry about that.

 

[Ateam2023]

i was actually considering jardiance for some bg management, i may just end up with reta, or tirz, i just dont want or need ANY kind of appetite suppressant, so reta is looking better than tirz to me ,,

its funny now i am taking jardiance, for ckd , and it has helped already in positive direction in my kidney numbers, @10 mg daily so far so good,,

 

[Avies48]

I suspect part of the "well being" thing comes from the rHGH boost in lung capacity and respiration efficiency. I notice it especially during periods of very high exertion. I never resort to breathing through my mouth regardless of workload, even at high temps and altitudes, and it's noticeably deeper than before.

So gh helps in lung capacity? How so? Id imagine if ur struggling with water retention it wouldnt be helping at all??

 

[Ghoul]

So gh helps in lung capacity? How so? Id imagine if ur struggling with water retention it wouldnt be helping at all??

There are many studies on this, the vast majority are adult growth hormone deficiency patients of course. They're scarce on healthy populations.

https://d1wqtxts1xzle7.cloudfront.net/69056907/j.ghir.2007.04.00320210904-15495-38kpbi-libre.pdf

"Conclusion: The findings of this study indicated that short-term high dose rhGH increased aerobic performance and respiratory muscle strength in former AAS users."

"In the current study, short term rHGH use, in abstinent AAS users, significantly increased respiratory muscle strength (determined by MIP). Lung capacity may have also been enhanced by the significant increase in FEV1/FVC ratio. We believe this to be a unique identification of the effects of rhGH in apparently healthy individuals."

I've read 10 or so of these papers, and the common themes for explaining increased VO2 max in order of significance and evidence:

1: Significant strengthening of respiratory muscles, leading to deeper breathing and more complete exhalation. With aging, there's a disproportionate drop in amino acid availability to respiratory muscles, even when they're systemically abundant. It's the first place sarcopenia (age related muscle wasting) begins to develop, long before it becomes an issue elsewhere. Basically because those muscles are in constant use, the amino acid transport system breaks down long before it does in other muscles. rHGH overcomes this with strong signals to induce protein synthesis, allowing the respotory muscles to rebuild.

2. Increased EPO production for greater blood oxygen carrying capacity.

3. Reversal (softening) of lung fibrosis. Lung fibrosis develops with aging, even in non-smokers who have healthy lungs, with age. This starts around 40, or earlier if exposed to pollutants. This has been demonstrated in animal models, not yet in humans, but we knew rHGH reverses fibrosis in many other tissues.

Highly aerobic conditioned young athletes show the least (or no) improvement.

The degree of improvement in otherwise health individuals seems to increase with age.

 

[dinfar1337]

There are many studies on this, the vast majority are adult growth hormone deficiency patients of course. They're scarce on healthy populations.

https://d1wqtxts1xzle7.cloudfront.net/69056907/j.ghir.2007.04.00320210904-15495-38kpbi-libre.pdf

"Conclusion: The findings of this study indicated that short-term high dose rhGH increased aerobic performance and respiratory muscle strength in former AAS users."

"In the current study, short term rHGH use, in abstinent AAS users, significantly increased respiratory muscle strength (determined by MIP). Lung capacity may have also been enhanced by the significant increase in FEV1/FVC ratio. We believe this to be a unique identification of the effects of rhGH in apparently healthy individuals."

I've read 10 or so of these papers, and the common themes for explaining increased VO2 max in order of significance and evidence:

1: Significant strengthening of respiratory muscles, leading to deeper breathing and more complete exhalation. With aging, there's a disproportionate drop in amino acid availability to respiratory muscles, even when they're systemically abundant. It's the first place sarcopenia (age related muscle wasting) begins to develop, long before it becomes an issue elsewhere. Basically because those muscles are in constant use, the amino acid transport system breaks down long before it does in other muscles. rHGH overcomes this with strong signals to induce protein synthesis, allowing the respotory muscles to rebuild.

2. Increased EPO production for greater blood oxygen carrying capacity.

3. Reversal (softening) of lung fibrosis. Lung fibrosis develops with aging, even in non-smokers who have healthy lungs, with age. This starts around 40, or earlier if exposed to pollutants. This has been demonstrated in animal models, not yet in humans, but we knew rHGH reverses fibrosis in many other tissues.

Highly aerobic conditioned young athletes show the least (or no) improvement.

The degree of improvement in otherwise health individuals seems to increase with age.

yes although we have to ask how much of this is contributed by a raise in epo > higher hemoglobin? the effect is probably not that extraordinary in already enhanced people as it would be in naturals.

although the anabolic effect of higher vo2 max is defiently worth it looking into

 

[Avies48]

There are many studies on this, the vast majority are adult growth hormone deficiency patients of course. They're scarce on healthy populations.

https://d1wqtxts1xzle7.cloudfront.net/69056907/j.ghir.2007.04.00320210904-15495-38kpbi-libre.pdf

"Conclusion: The findings of this study indicated that short-term high dose rhGH increased aerobic performance and respiratory muscle strength in former AAS users."

"In the current study, short term rHGH use, in abstinent AAS users, significantly increased respiratory muscle strength (determined by MIP). Lung capacity may have also been enhanced by the significant increase in FEV1/FVC ratio. We believe this to be a unique identification of the effects of rhGH in apparently healthy individuals."

I've read 10 or so of these papers, and the common themes for explaining increased VO2 max in order of significance and evidence:

1: Significant strengthening of respiratory muscles, leading to deeper breathing and more complete exhalation. With aging, there's a disproportionate drop in amino acid availability to respiratory muscles, even when they're systemically abundant. It's the first place sarcopenia (age related muscle wasting) begins to develop, long before it becomes an issue elsewhere. Basically because those muscles are in constant use, the amino acid transport system breaks down long before it does in other muscles. rHGH overcomes this with strong signals to induce protein synthesis, allowing the respotory muscles to rebuild.

2. Increased EPO production for greater blood oxygen carrying capacity.

3. Reversal (softening) of lung fibrosis. Lung fibrosis develops with aging, even in non-smokers who have healthy lungs, with age. This starts around 40, or earlier if exposed to pollutants. This has been demonstrated in animal models, not yet in humans, but we knew rHGH reverses fibrosis in many other tissues.

Highly aerobic conditioned young athletes show the least (or no) improvement.

The degree of improvement in otherwise health individuals seems to increase with age.

Greater epo… dayum so if ur already having issues with rbc’s it may not help u to add gh…

 

[dinfar1337]

Greater epo… dayum so if ur already having issues with rbc’s it may not help u to add gh…

yes though the effect is very little compared to aas.
when we talk in study language. aas is "very significant to red blood cells" in supraphysiological dosages and hgh is not even significant

 

[bananafeet]

I don't know if anyone else has noticed this. But both Tesamorelin 1mg and 1iu HGH have anecdotaly increased my sleep quality and architecture.

It's really surprising because I originally started taking it to get jacked and shredded (jokes kinda).

The weird effect has been a reduction in preventricular contractions (PVCs), a reduced resting heart rate and a feeling of wellbeing.

Interesting stuff. For context I've been on a cpap machine since November and both nights have similar amounts of androgen usage.

 

[Ghoul]

yes although we have to ask how much of this is contributed by a raise in epo > higher hemoglobin? the effect is probably not that extraordinary in already enhanced people as it would be in naturals.

although the anabolic effect of higher vo2 max is defiently worth it looking into

When you dig into the studies it's respiratory pressure that's responsible for the vast majority of improvement, somewhere around 80%. So it's improved muscle mechanics far more than EPO. I should've made that clear. The fibrosis remodeling probably takes a long time, but refurbished lungs sound great, lol.

# 2 and 3 on the list of reasons were far behind #1.

“Recombinant GH treatment significantly increased maximal inspiratory and expiratory pressure without significant early changes in hemoglobin.”

“Improvement in VO₂ max preceded measurable increases in red cell mass, suggesting muscular effects were the dominant mechanism.”

 

[dinfar1337]

When you dig into the studies it's respiratory pressure that's responsible for the vast majority of improvement, somewhere around 80%. So it's improved muscle mechanics far more than EPO. I should've made that clear.

# 2 and 3 on the list of reasons were far behind #1.

“Recombinant GH treatment significantly increased maximal inspiratory and expiratory pressure without significant early changes in hemoglobin.”

“Improvement in VO₂ max preceded measurable increases in red cell mass, suggesting muscular effects were the dominant mechanism.”

yup, i could also imagine this have some kind of muscle memory effect that is pseudo-permanent? that would make sense.

that is some great studies you found thanks for sharing

 

[Avies48]

yup, i could also imagine this have some kind of muscle memory effect that is pseudo-permanent? that would make sense.

that is some great studies you found thanks for sharing

So i could hypothetically take gh and it could be wake up my dormant muscles??? Joking in a way but optimistic

 

[Ghoul]

Although I only recently found most of this respitory -> rhgh info, I've been saying for a while that deeper breathing may be playing a part in poorer sleep some people experience, by unmasking sleep apnea that wasn't as bad with shallower breathing. It's something I read about affecting children on rHGH a while ago, and the first reference to improved breathing on GH I came across.

It's complicated because water retention can also thicken tissues in the throat and neck, bringing on apnea. It may be worth trying a diuretic to see if that resolves sleep issues (or asking a partner about snoring or get an apnea monitor).

 

[dinfar1337]

So i could hypothetically take gh and it could be wake up my dormant muscles??? Joking in a way but optimistic

no, a greater oxygen increase would allow you to go harder, you make more gains and its easier to go hard, and your respiratory muscles would have some long lasting muscle memory effects(10 years+) but you're breathing 24/7 so you would retain the increased respiratory muscles forever? from the hgh if im spot on.

so even if coming off hgh you would be able to go harder and maintain increased oxygen capacity and better sleep for the rest of your life

 

[Ghoul]

yup, i could also imagine this have some kind of muscle memory effect that is pseudo-permanent? that would make sense.

that is some great studies you found thanks for sharing

You might be right about muscle memory.

I wondered if the fact the subjects were former AAS users (or on a break) meant their respiratory muscles were "primed" to quickly return to their former condition, and that's why 100% of subjects saw very fast breathing strength gains once given rHGH.

 

[dinfar1337]

You might be right about muscle memory.

I wondered if the fact the subjects were former AAS users (or on a break) meant their respiratory muscles were "primed" to quickly return to their former condition, and that's why 100% of subjects saw very fast breathing strength gains once given rHGH.

yeah, how are u gonna atrophy the muscle? you are breathing 24/7

 

[Photon]

I don't know if anyone else has noticed this. But both Tesamorelin 1mg and 1iu HGH have anecdotaly increased my sleep quality and architecture.

It's really surprising because I originally started taking it to get jacked and shredded (jokes kinda).

The weird effect has been a reduction in preventricular contractions (PVCs), a reduced resting heart rate and a feeling of wellbeing.

Interesting stuff. For context I've been on a cpap machine since November and both nights have similar amounts of androgen usage.
View attachment 337017View attachment 337018

Most people produce 2-3 IUs a day. Are you taking 1 IU a day? Is your sleep better or worse without GH? Looks like you had better sleep using Tesa, which makes sense, because you are at least producing the baseline amount.

Both GH and AAS stimulate muscle growth. Lungs are organs, not muscles. Maybe the strengthening of the diaphragm and its surrounding muscles did something. But at the same time, it may be offset by water retention (especially in the neck) or growth of the traps (especially in AAS users). Having more muscles tho results in greater oxygen utilization so i guess there's always a trade off. Taking in more oxygen vs using more oxygen.

Sadly, I personally don't see much of a sleep improvement regardless on TRT or blast doses of HGH. I do see a significant improvement in exercise recovery time tho.