Louisiana Steroid Bust on Bodycam

[BigDadd7]

...
you might try to knock the dicks out your eyeballs....

That sounds really unpleasant

 

[readalot]

99%

99%

I really appreciate both perspectives. Reads like the only real disagreement is the number. And as it has already been shared, you always assume 100% do care.

So from least harm perspective, @malfeasance has the edge.

Just don't FAFO.

 

[sionnach]

That sounds really unpleasant

Step 1 sounds way worse, imo

 

[readalot]

Step 1 sounds way worse, imo

It's the internet. You would be surprised.

 

[malfeasance]

If you weren't a moron, you might have read the rest of my post.

I didn't say they wouldn't do something about it, I said they may HAVE to do something about it even if most don't personally care about them.

And since you got such a hard on for "harm reduction" you might try to knock the dicks out your eyeballs and re read the part where I encouraged people to not put cops in the position of having to arrest you for something they don't think should be illegal. And furthermore advised to not carry shit around in your car or take efforts to make it not super fucking obvious what they are. Which is more harm reduction than anyone, including you, has provided in this thread.

Moron? Maybe, but I did read the rest of your post. It certainly is not true that 99% of law enforcement "don't give a shit about steroids."

Whether they have to do something about it or not, a large percentage of them care very much about steroids and believe that by arresting you they are actually helping you.

Another large percentage may not care about whether they are helping you, but they will make the bust, especially in states where mere possession is a felony. Because the law is the law and this is illegal <--- Not any deeper consideration than that.

 

[sionnach]

@malfeasance has the edge.

Thanks to the modern miracle of musical recording, we all have The Edge.

 

[Dial It In]

Know what some real harm reduction is? Don’t put dicks in your eyeballs

 

[Ghoul]

Moron? Maybe, but I did read the rest of your post. It certainly is not true that 99% of law enforcement "don't give a shit about steroids."

Whether they have to do something about it or not, a large percentage of them care very much about steroids and believe that by arresting you they are actually helping you.

Another large percentage may not care about whether they are helping you, but they will make the bust, especially in states where mere possession is a felony. Because the law is the law and this is illegal <--- Not any deeper consideration than that.

A serious question.

Why have thousands and thousands of us gotten letters after federal law enforcement discovers packages of steroid oils, hundreds of pills. kilos of raws, en route to us, all controlled substances, in the case of raws evidence of intent to manufacture, and not one of the tens of thousands of members here, in the decades this has been happening, has ever once reported a single instance of being prosecuted.

Why? I repeat, Federal law enforcement intercepts a shipment of what they've determined is a controlled substance. They have the evidence in hand. They have the name and address of the recipient. Some members here have had this happen a DOZEN or more times.

So if LE "very much cares", how does this behavior square with your position?

I'm certain it wouldn't occur if the controlled substance was meth, cocaine, opioids, mushrooms, or even hasish.

So how do you make sense of this if not a deliberate policy of tolerance? (which I acknowledge could change in an instant, AAS are scheduled III drugs and the laws are on the books, I'm not advocating being reckless because the risk is always present, but this situation is very strange).

 

[eryximachus]

A serious question.

Why have thousands and thousands of us gotten letters after federal law enforcement discovers packages of steroid oils, hundreds of pills. kilos of raws, en route to us, all controlled substances, in the case of raws evidence of intent to manufacture, and not one of the tens of thousands of members here, in the decades this has been happening, has ever once reported a single instance of being prosecuted.

Why? I repeat, Federal law enforcement intercepts a shipment of what they've determined is a controlled substance. They have the evidence in hand. They have the name and address of the recipient. Some members here have had this happen a DOZEN or more times.

So if LE "very much cares", how does this behavior square with your position?

I'm certain it wouldn't occur if the controlled substance was meth, cocaine, opioids, mushrooms, or even hasish.

So how do you make sense of this if not a deliberate policy of tolerance? (which I acknowledge could change in an instant, AAS are scheduled III drugs and the laws are on the books, I'm not advocating being reckless because the risk is always present, but this situation is very strange).

There is very little coordination between federal law enforcement, customs and local police. This may change when Trump dies and our lard ass VP becomes president.

But the relevant law, 21 U.S.C. § 844, classifies possession of anabolic steroids without a prescription as a misdemeanor with a maximum penalty of 1 year in prison or up to a fine of $1,000. This is just a low priority for federal prosecutors.

 

[Ghoul]

There is very little coordination between federal law enforcement, customs and local police. This may change when Trump dies and our lard ass VP becomes president.

But the relevant law, 21 U.S.C. § 844, classifies possession of anabolic steroids without a prescription as a misdemeanor with a maximum penalty of 1 year in prison or up to a fine of $1,000. This is just a low priority for federal prosecutors.

That's not true. Customs routinely works with the DEA when controlled substances are found in packs, who sometimes pass smaller cases onto local law enforcement for controlled delivery and search warrants. They work with the ATF when machine gun conversion parts are found. People have even been prosecuted when fake id components have been found by customs.

Possession of steroids is a misdemeanor under federal law (I'm. calling anything with a max penalty under 1 year a misdemeanor, the feds don't distinguish between "misdemeanors/felonies",) up to a certain amount (just under 50 10ml vials if memory serves me correctly). But raws over 100g exceeds the misdemeanor threshold, not to mention its enough to prove intent to manufacture.

The only rational explanation is a deliberate policy of "low prioritization".

As for which future administration might flip this around and crack down, I suspect it's more likely the one representing the ideology that says masculinity is "toxic" and sees the only legitimate use for testosterone as a means for young girls become their "true gender".

The most likely scenario leading to another "Raw deal" style steroid crackdown imo is a some tiktok influenced kid dying from a heart attack, and his parents going to the media and starting an anti-steroid crusade. That kind of public attention always seemed to be the prelude to past crackdowns and new laws. Right now. no one seems to care about steroids at all. Also, widespread and growing TRT may be taking some of the stigma off of steroid use.

 

[canIgetsomeHgG]

The only rational explanation is a deliberate policy of "low prioritization".

To be fair, that doesn't only apply to just steroids. Besides opioids, the war on drugs has more or less ended. At this point, going after end consumers or even low level distributors is a losing game, hence why the U.S. was trying to crack down on fentanyl manufacturers in China.

As for which future administration might flip this around and crack down, I suspect it's more likely the one representing the ideology that says masculinity is "toxic" and sees the only legitimate use for testosterone as a means for young girls become their "true gender".

I highly doubt that. Historically the party that has been against drugs has been clear, partly due to religious reasons partly as a means of segregation. Even now, the use of the stigmatized drugs is much more normalized and tolerated in certain parts than others. Many such states opting to decriminalize non-opiod drugs. Also, the fact that trans people use it means that it'd be very hard for them to control it, especially when much of the community is on it DIY.

 

[malfeasance]

A serious question.

Why have thousands and thousands of us gotten letters after federal law enforcement discovers packages of steroid oils, hundreds of pills. kilos of raws, en route to us, all controlled substances, in the case of raws evidence of intent to manufacture, and not one of the tens of thousands of members here, in the decades this has been happening, has ever once reported a single instance of being prosecuted.

Why? I repeat, Federal law enforcement intercepts a shipment of what they've determined is a controlled substance. They have the evidence in hand. They have the name and address of the recipient. Some members here have had this happen a DOZEN or more times.

So if LE "very much cares", how does this behavior square with your position?

I'm certain it wouldn't occur if the controlled substance was meth, cocaine, opioids, mushrooms, or even hasish.

So how do you make sense of this if not a deliberate policy of tolerance? (which I acknowledge could change in an instant, AAS are scheduled III drugs and the laws are on the books, I'm not advocating being reckless because the risk is always present, but this situation is very strange).

We have posted news stories of this happening even for small amounts.

Forum members do not post about it if anything happens to them. In fact, if they are smart, they stop posting about it or even stop visiting steroid fora altogether.

I have posted about my experience, long after the statute of limitations expired, but I am not going to go into any more information than I posted previously, for fear of poking the bear, which is just stupid behavior, asking for attention. I disappeared from all steroid forums for a significant period of time, for reasons that should be obvious to anybody with an IQ above 84.

I also happen to know a lot about this from other personal experience that I do not care to share publicly. It is more than likely personal experience that you do not have. It gives me a network of information relating to how some things really work, and how decisions relating to this issue are made in real life, as opposed to shit I read on the internet. This network of information is probably again something you do not possess. I will not really post more than that about it. The site's owner knows some more detail, but, again, it will never be posted here publicly.

Various federal law enforcement absolutely will sometimes hand things over to the local law enforcement folks. They absolutely do this. I know this firsthand, and I know of multiples second hand (direct knowledge from the first hand person). I have no explanation for why they do not always do this or even why they only rarely do this. I speculate it is because it is a low level priority compared to fentanyl or heroin or methamphetamine. What is not speculation is that everybody in federal law enforcement knows that US Attorneys are not interested in steroid cases for personal possession (distribution is obviously different), but they also know, if you live in a state where steroid possession is a felony, local law enforcement may definitely be more interested and might even be eager little beavers. What I also know is that in spite of the knowledge that US Attorneys will not prosecute personal possession cases, federal law enforcement will sometimes still present the case to the US Attorney and ask if he is interested. Why? LOL, I do not know the answer to that, and I do not have a way to find out comfortably. But they do.

Going to the locals can have different outcomes, depending upon a lot of circumstances, including state law and which locals (the more sophisticated in federal law enforcement go to local drug task forces instead of just the local PD or Sheriff's office).

I happen to live in a state where possession of one tablet of 5 mg of anavar is a felony crime. Several other states are the same.

Some stupid dipshit will come along after this and post that this is nothing, so what if it is a felony, that you will get first offender status and not see any real jail time beyond the initial holding period awaiting bond. How do I know this will be posted? Because they have posted this idiocy before.

And, hey, that's great, really, just fine, if your are the local community loser, have no reputation, or a bad one. You get arrested and work at the local WalMart. Go do your first offender probation for your felony level arrest. No biggie. Do all your requirements and get a conditional discharge without a conviction.

It is not so great, however, if you have a real life, or if you live in a relatively small town, where arrests like that get published, and where you are prominent enough that folks know who you are, or you have professional licensing that may be affected, threatening your entire way of making a nice living, or have a reputation, as it may ruin your reputation in the process.

So I will just say it happens, and leave it at that. I have posted it is rare, compared to other drug offenses. This I have acknowledged. But to those of you who refuse to acknowledge that it happens, however rarely, you are living in internet fantasyland. That is not the real world. It is simply a numbers game with the odds way in your favor, but a numbers game nevertheless. I still remember my wife saying something about my previous assurances of how rare this is and how low the odds are . . . she did not remember my assurances fondly. She trusts me and my judgment very much, but those assurances had to have shaken her confidence some after reality hit. The only saving grace for her faith in me was that I did say that it was rare and the odds were low, not that they were zero.*

Those who want to call BS on what I post, because you are an internet expert, well, fuck you and believe what you want. <--- I hope that is clear enough. You do not know me (at least 99.9% here do not know me IRL), and I could be a troll making shit up, BUT . . . I have been here a while, and other internet fora even longer, and I am not known anywhere for simply making things up and posting bullshit about anything at all. I really have no idea why I would do that here about this issue. Of what possible benefit could it be? Posting reality has brought me nothing but hostility from others reading what I write. It would be much easier simply to be silent and post nothing at all. I would not feel like I had done the right thing by ignoring it and pretending this does not happen, though. So I write.




______


* She made a comment recently about something with some low level of risk (not ordering steroids), and she laughed a little, nervously, and said, "We know how the odds can work out for us sometimes." I just kind of laughed with her, but her point was made.

 

[sionnach]

Some cops are cool af, some cops are dicks. Some people get lucky, some people get busted.

 

[malfeasance]

There is very little coordination between federal law enforcement, customs and local police. This may change when Trump dies and our lard ass VP becomes president.

But the relevant law, 21 U.S.C. § 844, classifies possession of anabolic steroids without a prescription as a misdemeanor with a maximum penalty of 1 year in prison or up to a fine of $1,000. This is just a low priority for federal prosecutors.

Both paragraphs are 100% true. Very little is not zero, and I assume you are talking about steroids. There is, however, more cooperation when it is a higher priority issue. Your last sentence is the most important one, but, again, keep in mind that it may be a higher priority for a local prosecutor, where it is a felony level offense, than for a federal prosecutor. I am not aware of any federal prosecutions for steroid misdemeanors, ever (which is not the same as saying it has never happened, but I am not aware of it).

That's not true. Customs routinely works with the DEA when controlled substances are found in packs, who sometimes pass smaller cases onto local law enforcement for controlled delivery and search warrants. They work with the ATF when machine gun conversion parts are found. People have even been prosecuted when fake id components have been found by customs.

Possession of steroids is a misdemeanor under federal law (I'm. calling anything with a max penalty under 1 year a misdemeanor, the feds don't distinguish between "misdemeanors/felonies",) up to a certain amount (just under 50 10ml vials if memory serves me correctly). But raws over 100g exceeds the misdemeanor threshold, not to mention its enough to prove intent to manufacture.

The only rational explanation is a deliberate policy of "low prioritization".

As for which future administration might flip this around and crack down, I suspect it's more likely the one representing the ideology that says masculinity is "toxic" and sees the only legitimate use for testosterone as a means for young girls become their "true gender".

The most likely scenario leading to another "Raw deal" style steroid crackdown imo is a some tiktok influenced kid dying from a heart attack, and his parents going to the media and starting an anti-steroid crusade. That kind of public attention always seemed to be the prelude to past crackdowns and new laws. Right now. no one seems to care about steroids at all. Also, widespread and growing TRT may be taking some of the stigma off of steroid use.

I wrote all of the above post prior to seeing this post by you. I do not disagree with any of this quoted post.

 

[ineffectual]

We have posted news stories of this happening even for small amounts.

Forum members do not post about it if anything happens to them. In fact, if they are smart, they stop posting about it or even stop visiting steroid fora altogether.

I have posted about my experience, long after the statute of limitations expired, but I am not going to go into any more information than I posted previously, for fear of poking the bear, which is just stupid behavior, asking for attention. I disappeared from all steroid forums for a significant period of time, for reasons that should be obvious to anybody with an IQ above 84.

I also happen to know a lot about this from other personal experience that I do not care to share publicly. It is more than likely personal experience that you do not have. It gives me a network of information relating to how some things really work, and how decisions relating to this issue are made in real life, as opposed to shit I read on the internet. This network of information is probably again something you do not possess. I will not really post more than that about it. The site's owner knows some more detail, but, again, it will never be posted here publicly.

Various federal law enforcement absolutely will sometimes hand things over to the local law enforcement folks. They absolutely do this. I know this firsthand, and I know of multiples second hand (direct knowledge from the first hand person). I have no explanation for why they do not always do this or even why they only rarely do this. I speculate it is because it is a low level priority compared to fentanyl or heroin or methamphetamine. What is not speculation is that everybody in federal law enforcement knows that US Attorneys are not interested in steroid cases for personal possession (distribution is obviously different), but they also know, if you live in a state where steroid possession is a felony, local law enforcement may definitely be more interested and might even be eager little beavers. What I also know is that in spite of the knowledge that US Attorneys will not prosecute personal possession cases, federal law enforcement will sometimes still present the case to the US Attorney and ask if he is interested. Why? LOL, I do not know the answer to that, and I do not have a way to find out comfortably. But they do.

Going to the locals can have different outcomes, depending upon a lot of circumstances, including state law and which locals (the more sophisticated in federal law enforcement go to local drug task forces instead of just the local PD or Sheriff's office).

I happen to live in a state where possession of one tablet of 5 mg of anavar is a felony crime. Several other states are the same.

Some stupid dipshit will come along after this and post that this is nothing, so what if it is a felony, that you will get first offender status and not see any real jail time beyond the initial holding period awaiting bond. How do I know this will be posted? Because they have posted this idiocy before.

And, hey, that's great, really, just fine, if your are the local community loser, have no reputation, or a bad one. You get arrested and work at the local WalMart. Go do your first offender probation for your felony level arrest. No biggie. Do all your requirements and get a conditional discharge without a conviction.

It is not so great, however, if you have a real life, or if you live in a relatively small town, where arrests like that get published, and where you are prominent enough that folks know who you are, or you have professional licensing that may be affected, threatening your entire way of making a nice living, or have a reputation, as it may ruin your reputation in the process.

So I will just say it happens, and leave it at that. I have posted it is rare, compared to other drug offenses. This I have acknowledged. But to those of you who refuse to acknowledge that it happens, however rarely, you are living in internet fantasyland. That is not the real world. It is simply a numbers game with the odds way in your favor, but a numbers game nevertheless. I still remember my wife saying something about my previous assurances of how rare this is and how low the odds are . . . she did not remember my assurances fondly. She trusts me and my judgment very much, but those assurances had to have shaken her confidence some after reality hit. The only saving grace for her faith in me was that I did say that it was rare and the odds were low, not that they were zero.*

Those who want to call BS on what I post, because you are an internet expert, well, fuck you and believe what you want. <--- I hope that is clear enough. You do not know me (at least 99.9% here do not know me IRL), and I could be a troll making shit up, BUT . . . I have been here a while, and other internet fora even longer, and I am not known anywhere for simply making things up and posting bullshit about anything at all. I really have no idea why I would do that here about this issue. Of what possible benefit could it be? Posting reality has brought me nothing but hostility from others reading what I write. It would be much easier simply to be silent and post nothing at all. I would not feel like I had done the right thing by ignoring it and pretending this does not happen, though. So I write.




______


* She made a comment recently about something with some low level of risk (not ordering steroids), and she laughed a little, nervously, and said, "We know how the odds can work out for us sometimes." I just kind of laughed with her, but her point was made.

Thank you for for the warning. When these conversations come up and you read people claiming that you never see anyone really posting about being busted always gets me thinking. You have an ongoing case against you. The last thing you would be doing is publishing more evidence against yourself.

 

[TallandSmall]

A serious question.

Why have thousands and thousands of us gotten letters after federal law enforcement discovers packages of steroid oils, hundreds of pills. kilos of raws, en route to us, all controlled substances, in the case of raws evidence of intent to manufacture, and not one of the tens of thousands of members here, in the decades this has been happening, has ever once reported a single instance of being prosecuted.

Why? I repeat, Federal law enforcement intercepts a shipment of what they've determined is a controlled substance. They have the evidence in hand. They have the name and address of the recipient. Some members here have had this happen a DOZEN or more times.

So if LE "very much cares", how does this behavior square with your position?

I'm certain it wouldn't occur if the controlled substance was meth, cocaine, opioids, mushrooms, or even hasish.

So how do you make sense of this if not a deliberate policy of tolerance? (which I acknowledge could change in an instant, AAS are scheduled III drugs and the laws are on the books, I'm not advocating being reckless because the risk is always present, but this situation is very strange).

I think it’s probably a low priority because of the deniability that anyone can mail anything to anyone. Neighbors dog won’t stop shitting in my yard? Mail them some drugs and call the cops. They probably don’t have the resources to investigate every seizure and so it gets deprioritized. I’m pretty sure 100% of my local cops WOULD care.

 

[malfeasance]

I think it’s probably a low priority because of the deniability that anyone can mail anything to anyone. Neighbors dog won’t stop shitting in my yard? Mail them some drugs and call the cops. They probably don’t have the resources to investigate every seizure and so it gets deprioritized. I’m pretty sure 100% of my local cops WOULD care.

It is an evidentiary issue, for sure. What I have not seen is somebody who hired an attorney and fought and won on the "anybody can mail anything to anyone" defense (which is not the same thing as claiming it has not happened. I just don't know).

On steroids, everything gets plead out on some conditional sentence so that there is no conviction on the record, which is too good to pass up if steroid possession is a felony where you live. Pay a fine, complete probation, no conviction is ever entered on the record, and even the arrest gets expunged in most states. (typical result at sentencing - I know there have been some exceptions posted here in news stories, but most of those are older stories now).

They also know folks order steroids for personal use. I do not know how much that happens with harder drugs. Mailed fentanyl is probably for distribution, or so I would think (I don't know. Do they ship fentanyl for personal use?). Personal or distribution makes a big difference in priority (as do administration priorities, e.g., fentanyl right now with the current administration).

Here is something I do know, however, about the "anybody can mail anything to anyone" issue. The USPS knows everything that has ever been shipped to every address, including the ones you use. You would be utterly shocked at how much they know about what is delivered to you and from where and whether it has any indications of being the same sort of thing or even potentially from the same supplier. They have programs to analyze this and spit out all of the information regarding likely packages. They will use some of that information while questioning you. Hopefully, you are smart enough not to engage and tell them only that you want your lawyer. Most people are not smart enough, especially those who have been conditioned to think that law enforcement does not care about steroids. Blah, blah, they talk. <-- Don't do that.

 

[AlexDavis43]

It is an evidentiary issue, for sure. What I have not seen is somebody who hired an attorney and fought and won on the "anybody can mail anything to anyone" defense (which is not the same thing as claiming it has not happened. I just don't know).

Someone made the argument, "my neighbor's dog shit on my lawn so I ordered illegal drugs to their house and gave LE an anonymous tip"

Interesting but I've never seen any reports of it

Here is something I do know, however, about the "anybody can mail anything to anyone" issue. The USPS knows everything that has ever been shipped to every address, including the ones you use. You would be utterly shocked at how much they know about what is delivered to you and from where and whether it has any indications of being the same sort of thing or even potentially from the same supplier. They have programs to analyze this and spit out all of the information regarding likely packages. They will use some of that information while questioning you. Hopefully, you are smart enough not to engage and tell them only that you want your lawyer. Most people are not smart enough, especially those who have been conditioned to think that law enforcement does not care about steroids. Blah, blah, they talk. <-- Don't do that.

I don't care how innocent you are, don't say shit without a lawyer, even if you're actually innocent

 

[malfeasance]

Someone made the argument, "my neighbor's dog shit on my lawn so I ordered illegal drugs to their house and gave LE an anonymous tip"

Oh, that was real? I thought it was being offered up as a hypothetical.

 

[TallandSmall]

Oh, that was real? I thought it was being offered up as a hypothetical.

No, just a hypothetical. It’s an argument that always gets brought up. I’ve always assumed that if they are actually looking into someone, they probably have what they need already. I was just trying to point out that just because mail packages aren’t a priority the federal level, that doesn’t mean it’s deprioritized at the local level, but I personally have no reason to be driving around with anything anyway, so I’m not really worried about it.