MESO-Rx

Anabolic Steroids

MESO-Rx Sponsor Axle Labs - US Domestic

thejeepguy said:
You guys need to stop talking about raising prices on primo getting me all stressed out and shit. I'm mid cycle and I really don't want to slow down. I love not having to worry about estrogen. Prices go up I'll have to switch to using a blocker. Not cool.
Click to expand...
lol yeah, we may be jinxing it! We are all in the same boat. I’m going to spend some time dialing in EQ and know it like I know my primo and mast. Need a backup plan until the scene improves.
 
Oldhand said:
Totally understand. EQ is an odd one.
Click to expand...
EQ still available at decent prices (for domestic vendors), I just stocked up on some from OEP Labs here. I'm sure Axle will have it too when he reopens... I have my wish list ready!

So I have run primo a few times now, and haven't been too impressed with it re: muscle accrual or estrogen control, and I've used vials from several good sources, all bought more than a year ago before the raw shortage. I have not had any tested myself, but have no reason to think they were not primo - all had good Jano testing from seller (including 808 Labs = Axle), oil was thick despite MCT, and most caused some PIP if not warmed and/or diluted. And I didn't really 'feel anything' from them, unlike say tren which I most definitely feel.

I think primobolan may be more heavily degraded in skeletal muscle by 3⍺-HSD than other DHT 'derivatives' - most of which are specifically modified at C2 (methylation or other) to prevent this; the metabolites of predominant 3⍺ metabolites of primobolan would seem to support this, although there are multiple isoforms of that enzyme expressed in different tissues. In comparison, masteron (and other C2 modified AAS ie oxandrolone, oxymetholone, winstrol, stenbolone, etc) do not have significant 3⍺ metabolites.

As far as estrogen control, the best and most consistent androgen for that is exemestane. I don't think most people use it correctly, but that is another topic. All DHT 'derivates' seems to modify estrogen response to some degree, but I don't think any of them (or their metabolites) can actually act as a true non-competitive AI, based on their A-ring structure; while not a DHT 'derivative' boldenone is one possible exception. Others at best could act as a weak competitive AI. But DHT and all 'derivatives' can do and do modify translational activity of the ER in a tissue specific manner, hence why several were developed for and some still used for metastatic breast cancer. DHB and its c1-methylated doppelgänger primobolan could also inhibit 17β-HSD1, which will shift balance of estradiol towards the much less active estrone, which effectively becomes a competitive inhibitor of estradiol at the ER.

Just finished my open primo vial and decided to trying a seemingly unconventional mix of 210mg EQ + 105mg DHB instead (10mg + 15mg per day ea)... the cyp of DHB and enanthate of primo have fairly similar half lives so should be a smooth transition, less mg of DHB but it is considerably more potent, 2-3x maybe more. Obviously the EQ will take a long time to build up, which is fine; if it were a shorter ester I might have front loaded it but that seems pointless with undecylenate, and complicates resolution of problems should any develop. Unlikely though at the dose I'm using.

I've avoided EQ until now because of purported Hct issues, but my current supplement regimen of silymarin, taxifolin, and naringin seems to have that very well controlled - last HgB was 15.8 after nearly two years w/o donation, even with primo in the mix most of that time. My base of low dose test, MENT, and tren plus mast seem to not affect it very much. And single most important thing in managing hematocrit is hydration... it can increase > 5 points if volume depleted. Substantially increasing my sodium intake has helped a lot with that, ironically, perhaps because I take a sodium wasting drug (empoglaflozin).
 
Last edited:
bigdaddyandfriends said:
EQ still available at decent prices (for domestic vendors), I just stocked up on some from OEP Labs here. I'm sure Axle will have it too when he reopens... I have my wish list ready!

So I have run primo a few times now, and haven't been too impressed with it re: muscle accrual or estrogen control, and I've used vials from several good sources, all bought more than a year ago before the raw shortage. I have not had any tested myself, but have no reason to think they were not primo - all had good Jano testing from seller (including 808 Labs = Axle), oil was thick despite MCT, and most caused some PIP if not warmed and/or diluted. And I didn't really 'feel anything' from them, unlike say tren which I most definitely feel.

I think primobolan may be more heavily degraded in skeletal muscle by 3⍺-HSD than other DHT 'derivatives' - most of which are specifically modified at C2 (methylation or other) to prevent this; the metabolites of predominant 3⍺ metabolites of primobolan would seem to support this, although there are multiple isoforms of that enzyme expressed in different tissues. In comparison, masteron (and other C2 modified AAS ie oxandrolone, oxymetholone, winstrol, stenbolone, etc) do not have significant 3⍺ metabolites.

As far as estrogen control, the best and most consistent androgen for that is exemestane. I don't think most people use it correctly, but that is another topic. All DHT 'derivates' seems to modify estrogen response to some degree, but I don't think any of them (or their metabolites) can actually act as a true non-competitive AI, based on their A-ring structure; while not a DHT 'derivative' boldenone is one possible exception. Others at best could act as a weak competitive AI. But DHT and all 'derivatives' can do and do modify translational activity of the ER in a tissue specific manner, hence why several were developed for and some still used for metastatic breast cancer. DHB and its c1-methylated doppelgänger primobolan could also inhibit 17β-HSD1, which will shift balance of estradiol towards the much less active estrone, which effectively becomes a competitive inhibitor of estradiol at the ER.

Just finished my open primo vial and decided to trying a seemingly unconventional mix of 210mg EQ + 105mg DHB instead (10mg + 15mg per day ea)... the cyp of DHB and enanthate of primo have fairly similar half lives so should be a smooth transition, less mg of DHB but it is considerably more potent, 2-3x maybe more. Obviously the EQ will take a long time to build up, which is fine; if it were a shorter ester I might have front loaded it but that seems pointless with undecylenate, and complicates resolution of problems should any develop. Unlikely though at the dose I'm using.

I've avoided EQ until now because of purported Hct issues, but my current supplement regimen of silymarin, taxifolin, and naringin seems to have that very well controlled - last HgB was 15.8 after nearly two years w/o donation, even with primo in the mix most of that time. My base of low dose test, MENT, and tren plus mast seem to not affect it very much. And single most important thing in managing hematocrit is hydration... it can increase > 5 points if volume depleted. Substantially increasing my sodium intake has helped a lot with that, ironically, perhaps because I take a sodium wasting drug (empoglaflozin).
Click to expand...
are those three supplements in a combo dose or seperate and individual?
 
bigdaddyandfriends said:
EQ still available at decent prices (for domestic vendors), I just stocked up on some from OEP Labs here. I'm sure Axle will have it too when he reopens... I have my wish list ready!

So I have run primo a few times now, and haven't been too impressed with it re: muscle accrual or estrogen control, and I've used vials from several good sources, all bought more than a year ago before the raw shortage. I have not had any tested myself, but have no reason to think they were not primo - all had good Jano testing from seller (including 808 Labs = Axle), oil was thick despite MCT, and most caused some PIP if not warmed and/or diluted. And I didn't really 'feel anything' from them, unlike say tren which I most definitely feel.

I think primobolan may be more heavily degraded in skeletal muscle by 3⍺-HSD than other DHT 'derivatives' - most of which are specifically modified at C2 (methylation or other) to prevent this; the metabolites of predominant 3⍺ metabolites of primobolan would seem to support this, although there are multiple isoforms of that enzyme expressed in different tissues. In comparison, masteron (and other C2 modified AAS ie oxandrolone, oxymetholone, winstrol, stenbolone, etc) do not have significant 3⍺ metabolites.

As far as estrogen control, the best and most consistent androgen for that is exemestane. I don't think most people use it correctly, but that is another topic. All DHT 'derivates' seems to modify estrogen response to some degree, but I don't think any of them (or their metabolites) can actually act as a true non-competitive AI, based on their A-ring structure; while not a DHT 'derivative' boldenone is one possible exception. Others at best could act as a weak competitive AI. But DHT and all 'derivatives' can do and do modify translational activity of the ER in a tissue specific manner, hence why several were developed for and some still used for metastatic breast cancer. DHB and its c1-methylated doppelgänger primobolan could also inhibit 17β-HSD1, which will shift balance of estradiol towards the much less active estrone, which effectively becomes a competitive inhibitor of estradiol at the ER.

Just finished my open primo vial and decided to trying a seemingly unconventional mix of 210mg EQ + 105mg DHB instead (10mg + 15mg per day ea)... the cyp of DHB and enanthate of primo have fairly similar half lives so should be a smooth transition, less mg of DHB but it is considerably more potent, 2-3x maybe more. Obviously the EQ will take a long time to build up, which is fine; if it were a shorter ester I might have front loaded it but that seems pointless with undecylenate, and complicates resolution of problems should any develop. Unlikely though at the dose I'm using.

I've avoided EQ until now because of purported Hct issues, but my current supplement regimen of silymarin, taxifolin, and naringin seems to have that very well controlled - last HgB was 15.8 after nearly two years w/o donation, even with primo in the mix most of that time. My base of low dose test, MENT, and tren plus mast seem to not affect it very much. And single most important thing in managing hematocrit is hydration... it can increase > 5 points if volume depleted. Substantially increasing my sodium intake has helped a lot with that, ironically, perhaps because I take a sodium wasting drug (empoglaflozin).
Click to expand...
My HCT is still 52 after more than a gallon of water pre bloodwork. The primo AI thing (like all others) is highly individual and genetically influenced. I need to go at least 1 to 1 primo to test ratio to keep e2 in check. I now realize why so many guys stack primo and mast. If I were using high dose test and try to cut down on a base of muscle that was way beyond my genetic potential, I could easily see myself needing both of these to control E2 on a dose of say 750 test. Dialing it in, whether it be with primo or EQ, is the tricky part (at least for me). Always fighting the urge to tinker with the regimen while waiting for bloods to come back. And also it’s important to use labs just as a reference. Meaning that if your E2 is 55 and you feel great, no bloat, no gyno, etc why the fuck mess with it and try to get it to 35? What would that accomplish? If anything you’re likely to overshoot and crash the E2 which imo is a much shittier problem than needing to bring it Down (many options).

Regarding primo, I agree you don’t really “feel” it hit or anything (though I run Low dosage). What I do notice is that after 3-4 weeks I’m fuller, harder, and more vascular. Strength is preserved on a pretty large calorie deficit. And I also like the absence of side effects. As far as injectables, nothing hits like tren.
 
Last edited:
Ateam2023 said:
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Silybin and silymarin--new and emerging applications in medicine - PubMed

This review critically surveys the literature published mainly within this millennium on the new and emerging applications of silybin (pure, chemically defined substance) and silymarin (flavonoid complex from Silybum marianum - milk thistle seeds). These compounds used so far mostly as...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
this is some more supported information
Click to expand...
It also has activity as an iron chelator
 
Season 7 Nbc GIF by The Office

Getting close!
 
Axle Labs said:
It’s hard to get but have been able to get some for a high price. Can’t disclose source though (as you suggested yourself).
Click to expand...
This is landing later in the week btw (Mast-E) so will be out of stock right when we open but will be in stock by end of week.
 
Axle Labs said:
This is landing later in the week btw (Mast-E) so will be out of stock right when we open but will be in stock by end of week.
Click to expand...
Can we expect Tren A to he available? I’d like to get a good half a dozen of it.

Also does anyone know if the 20ml vials have a more durable rubber stopper, I like using 20g needles cuz I got 3ml of oil to extract and eventually coring occurs but usually the vial doesn’t last long enough to cause issues but interested in 20ml vials which would last longer.
 
al3bod99 said:
Can we expect Tren A to he available? I’d like to get a good half a dozen of it.

Also does anyone know if the 20ml vials have a more durable rubber stopper, I like using 20g needles cuz I got 3ml of oil to extract and eventually coring occurs but usually the vial doesn’t last long enough to cause issues but interested in 20ml vials which would last longer.
Click to expand...
Yea tren A will be available.

20mL vial stopper should remain fine with 20 gauge.
 
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