BigDadd7
Member
Maybe you're just actually nuts, so you can't tell? Lol
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Steroid Profile Equipoise
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ChemBB
Member
I've run, in various combinations:
200 - 1500mg Test
175 - 1400mg Tren
200 - 1000mg Mast
600 - 900mg EQ
300 - 500mg DHB
300 - 700mg Nandrolone
50 - 300mg Trestolone/MENT
1000mg Primo
50 - 200mg TNE/TrNE
20 - 100mg Anavar
20 - 100mg Winstrol
20 - 75mg Dbol
50 - 200mg Anadrol
10 - 20mg M1T
10 - 30mg Sdrol
15 - 50mg Epistane
10 - 40mg M-Sten
20 - 40mg Dimethazine
10 - 40mg Halotestin
10 - 20mg DMT
1 - 2mg M-Tren (oral)
0.5 - 1.0mg M-Tren (inj)
What I haven't run is:
Injectable Winstrol/Anadrol
Hard to source exotics like Dienolone, Methyldienolone, Bolasterone, and Methylhydroxynandrolone (MOHN).
Those exotics have been on my bucket list for a while but I doubt any of them are the one compound that is going to make me magically feel mentally changed.
ChemBB
Member
Not ruling it out
200mg Tne? Damn how that feeling on training.
Photon
Member
I've been wondering about M-sten.
Did you take the injectable?
Hows it compare to SDROL?
It's odd because some people say it's dryer and some, wetter.
Strength gains?
Lethargic?
ChemBB
Member
I had high hopes for TNE/Tren No-Ester based on how many people online said they "feel" it.
To be completely honest, I didn't "feel" anything. Did them both a few times and wrote them off as silly. Same with Halotestin.
I took it back when it was legal, ran IronMagLabs M-Sten oral.
I'd describe it as somewhere between Anavar/Epistane and Sdrol.
It doesn't feel nearly as toxic, results in terms of lean size + strength are similar-ish. Certainly worth trying. Thankfully you can still buy it easily from overseas in the UK and have it shipped, Predator Nutrition has good stuff:
Buy Olympus Labs M-Sten | Prohormone
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I'm a huge fan of Epistane -- honestly I think Epi is one of the best orals around.
Comment from Mike Arnold during the PH ban of 2014 wrt M-Sten, DMZ, and Epi:
dinfar1337
New Member
sadly ive tried alot of stuff but masteron did it for me, just complete mood killer, got depressed from it and went from 5 hard dick a day to once for maintenace.
you got way more experience than me so you're probably never gonna meet it, some people are unlucky to meet it even on higher total testosterone. it just so happens naturally, its something we can't control even with a forged mind.
its like going from normal worker bob to crazy pshyotic hospital patient one day.
I’m seeing a lot of conflicting anecdotes regarding anxiety and EQ.
The majority say it’s an e2 issue and then there’s a significant minority that claim dialling in E2 didn’t help.
Are there other mechanisms by which this compound can cause anxiety issues? Or is it simply hormonal and it’s just down to individuals response to differing levels of the relevant hormones?
The majority say it’s an e2 issue and then there’s a significant minority that claim dialling in E2 didn’t help.
Are there other mechanisms by which this compound can cause anxiety issues? Or is it simply hormonal and it’s just down to individuals response to differing levels of the relevant hormones?
Ateam2023
Member
Imo its highly individual,
Kylesmith1985
New Member
300mg Trestolone/MENT
1000mg Primo
How was that cycle? I've never taken Trest of Primo in high doses and that combo my curiosity. I'm guessing you still ran an AI?
strengertest
New Member
"all those steroidal AIs share is permanent in humans - there is no enzyme to restore it."
What do you mean by that?
bigdaddyandfriends
Member
They have a C4-5 double bond... once that bond is 5⍺-reduced, it is permanent. I believe some fungi have an enzyme to restore it though.
This is why I can see Boldenone being more of a potential AI than DHB, and why I don't think primo is an AI. That's not to say primo cannot lower estradiol, it's just via some other mechanism like inhibition of 17β-HSD1 which will shift the overall estrogen distribution from estradiol > estrone (which is itself is weak agonist and essentially will act a competitive inhibitor to estradiol).
DHT and likely its derivatives are all inherently anti-estrogenic as well probably via down-regulation of the receptor and/or its transcription activity. This is why men with high DHT levels can tolerate higher estradiol levels, and conversely why men with normal estradiol levels can high high estrogen symptoms and body habitus from low DHT (i.e finasteride use).
bigdaddyandfriends
Member
I've read here and other places that EQ aromatizes to estrone, which is incorrect. It has a 17-OH hydroxyl group, not a keto group, so itself will leave the aromatase enzyme as estradiol. This is also confirmed in research papers, excluding body building anecdotals; the same applies to its major Bm1 metabolite.
Only steroidal molecules with a 17-keto group like androstenedione will be converted to estrone by aromatase. In post menopausal women, most of their estrogen is estrone because it is derived from DHEA > androstenedione > estrone.
What happens to that estradiol after being formed is another question. Estrone is both a metabolite of and precursor to estradiol so something affecting the 17⍺- and 17β HSD enzymes can certainly lower one and raise the other.
Only steroidal molecules with a 17-keto group like androstenedione will be converted to estrone by aromatase. In post menopausal women, most of their estrogen is estrone because it is derived from DHEA > androstenedione > estrone.
What happens to that estradiol after being formed is another question. Estrone is both a metabolite of and precursor to estradiol so something affecting the 17⍺- and 17β HSD enzymes can certainly lower one and raise the other.
bigdaddyandfriends
Member
I’m in for the longer run, kind of mandatory with such a long ester.
If it
I keep my test levels hence DHT levels low for hair and prostate as I’m old, but doing so forces me to keep estradiol (and 7α-methylestradiol as I use MENT) in a very narrow sweet spot. I gave up chasing it with LC/MS testing and now just go by feel, dosing small amounts of Aromasin or DHEA prn. Achy joints = more MENT & DHEA (which I otherwise avoid), excessive emotionality = Aromasin. For me the emotionality precedes excess water retention, ED and gyno, which gives me time to reign in before more serious problems occur.
I’m probably gonna to start using more test ie 17.5mg enanthate + 5mg prop daily, to raise my DHT. If topical RU and fina isn’t maintaining my hair I’ll get some duta and try taking one pill three times a month - unfortunately because of it’s available dosing and half life there is no good way to use it orally, and topicals aren’t absorbed well. I use Minoxtop-F but finasteride is only partly effective against DHT in the scalp, being a type II 5αR blocker; vast majority of the 5αR in the scalp in adults actually type I, so only blocked by duta.
I have my HCT well controlled with naringin, taxifolin and silymarin. Hoping it won’t change much with low dose EQ but will definitely monitor. If I don’t get an AI effect I’ll d/c it but want it to reach steady state before deciding… and that takes a long freaking time!
If it
you probably have high DHT levels too - that seems to be a trend I notice with those that tolerate estradiol levels above reference range - sometimes significantly above.
I keep my test levels hence DHT levels low for hair and prostate as I’m old, but doing so forces me to keep estradiol (and 7α-methylestradiol as I use MENT) in a very narrow sweet spot. I gave up chasing it with LC/MS testing and now just go by feel, dosing small amounts of Aromasin or DHEA prn. Achy joints = more MENT & DHEA (which I otherwise avoid), excessive emotionality = Aromasin. For me the emotionality precedes excess water retention, ED and gyno, which gives me time to reign in before more serious problems occur.
I’m probably gonna to start using more test ie 17.5mg enanthate + 5mg prop daily, to raise my DHT. If topical RU and fina isn’t maintaining my hair I’ll get some duta and try taking one pill three times a month - unfortunately because of it’s available dosing and half life there is no good way to use it orally, and topicals aren’t absorbed well. I use Minoxtop-F but finasteride is only partly effective against DHT in the scalp, being a type II 5αR blocker; vast majority of the 5αR in the scalp in adults actually type I, so only blocked by duta.
I have my HCT well controlled with naringin, taxifolin and silymarin. Hoping it won’t change much with low dose EQ but will definitely monitor. If I don’t get an AI effect I’ll d/c it but want it to reach steady state before deciding… and that takes a long freaking time!
I didn’t know it could fuck with GABA. That’s likely the main culprit across the board if it’s true.
Photon
Member
bigdaddyandfriends
Member
please do
Have read it converts to ‘estrone’ in the liver. Have also read MENT (a nandrolone derivative) metabolizes to 7α-methylestradiol in the liver independent of aromatase.
But I’m not aware of any back door pathway for a male to synthesize any estrogen other than via aromatase of endogenous or exogenous androgens (unlike a woman with functioning ovaries). Changes to A-ring to make an estrogen are very, very specific to that enzyme… if there is another that can do it, I’m not aware of it being identified or described.
On the other hand, there is a back door pathway to create DHT, I believe.
I believe it nandrolone does aromatize but at well under the often quoted 20%… I’d guess half or less than that, based on how much is required to maintain adequate estradiol levels w/o exogenous test or at least HCG. I know someone who added 300-400mg deca to their cycle and it barely budged their estradiol - but of course they got gyno & ED via other effects on ER and transcriptional activity.
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bigdaddyandfriends
Member
I’ll have to look for that… pct24x7 only has oral listed, a topical with DMSO might work if not smell good
I was thinking about trying oral, just one pill every 10 days. It’s not made at a dose suitable for daily or EOD use that I’m aware of.
BigDadd7
Member
Dut every ten days? I cant' see that doing anything.
