EPO Gains

[bossetti]

Prednisone is like the wholly grail for running in my opinion, it helps take away from pain when running. I'm gonna try kenakort soon (cortisone).

Imho you could risk injuries

 

[Benf15harp]

Imho you could risk injuries

 

[Runna6]

Imho you could risk injuries

I don’t care, whatever can make me push farther on race day is the way to go!

 

[bossetti]

I don’t care, whatever can make me push farther on race day is the way to go!

Yes but if u injure yourself during training ur not gonna perform good,if you was a cyclist maybe could be gtg but running has big impacts on tendons/ligaments and if cortisone damage them ur gonna risk much more injuries

 

[IndividualMan]

cortisone is fucked for running. Big no-no in my opinion. might cut your career off far too early, WILL cut your career off earlier than if you hadnt taken it.
Try any other pain suppressants, pain killers or other things that do not negatively affect joints.

Neighbor of mine ran marathons as a hobbyist, did a lil something here and there, did cortisone, essentially put his knee and one ankle through a meat grinder. Had to do 2 years of rehab and use a ton of those healing peptides. Hes still not back to the pace where he was before starting cortisone. Only does half marathons nowadays as well. So not worth it for runners.

 

[Benf15harp]

I don’t care, whatever can make me push farther on race day is the way to go!

I’m hoping it pushes you just a little farther
You got this!!!

 

[Runna6]

I’m hoping it pushes you just a little farther
You got this!!!
View attachment 345616

Wishing death upon someone is crazy, why are you so pressed?

 

[bossetti]

Wishing death upon someone is crazy, why are you so pressed?

Its a way to tell you that ok peds are good but you should think also at long term performances

 

[Benf15harp]

Its a way to tell you that ok peds are good but you should think also at long term performances

Sure, that works too! Lmao

 

[Benf15harp]

Wishing death upon someone is crazy, why are you so pressed?

Classic Nancy interpretation.
Guess im just very jealous of your jogging aptitude.
Carry on.

 

[Beetheone]

I’m not the guy you replied to but I have a source for meldonium. Look up cosmicnootropics. They had it in injectable/pill form.

Looks like Cosmic doesn't deliver to USA anymore (or at least for now). What effects did you see while taking Meldonium ?

Former pro cyclist, now just into feeling great and beating up on the young kids.

 

[Beetheone]

I am a lifelong endurance athlete (running, triathlon and bike racing). I tried my first cycle of EPO. Diving into the world of endurance gains and blood doping I was under the impression that taking that drug you would see serious noticeable gains in performance. A lot of studies show that your time to exhaustion and V02 max go up between 5%-10%+. Some studies are inconclusive. With that said reading tons of material on professional cycling in the 90's-2000's when EPO was first abused by the peloton; a lot of the pros talk about once it was introduced the speed of the peloton went up so steeply that if you were not taking the drug you could barely hold on in races. Also accounts of heavier sprinters (usually heavier and have trouble getting over mountain stages in multi day tours like the TDF etc..) who normally could barely get over mountains in grand tours, were winning mountain stages. Everyone's favorite doper Lance Armstrong said EPO was "rocket fuel" and "minimum provided 10% gains."...So naturally when I took the drug I thought that I would notice serious performance improvement. I got my hematocrit up to around 52.3 and my hemoglobin around 17.1 (from a base of around 44 and 15ish). While I have seen my power increase on the bicycle it is so subtle it is hard to tell if it is just from hard structured training or the drug itself. I guess what I am getting at is my experience is that the gains are underwhelming. Maybe that is just the way it goes with different physiologies or perhaps I have not jacked my blood values high enough into the more dangerous territories to see a difference. I know there are not a lot of endurance athletes on these threads (let along endurance athletes who have cycled EPO) but would love to hear anyone's experience or insig

What's your age ?

 

[Feldy]

What's your age ?

54

 

[Beetheone]

54

I'm later 50's .... I think at our ages the EPO juice isn't worth the squeeze. There's plenty peptides and other stuff that'll get you close to the same effect with near zero side effects.

I'm guessing you're not on TRT ? My hematocrit went from 44 to 52. No need for EPO after that.

 

[Feldy]

I'm later 50's .... I think at our ages the EPO juice isn't worth the squeeze. There's plenty peptides and other stuff that'll get you close to the same effect with near zero side effects.

I'm guessing you're not on TRT ? My hematocrit went from 44 to 52. No need for EPO after that.

Yes after learning more about all of this, I agree. No TRT. I tried it and immediately gained like 10 pounds which is no good for cycling. The question I have is do you get the same effect/outcome regardless of what you take. For instance if you are taking EPO and get your hematocrit up to 54 hemoglobin 18 and or taking Test and get the numbers to the same point...is the effect the same on performance? I always wondered that, because all of the pros in the 90's-2000's etc..were also taking test. Why wouldnt they just use test to get the numbers up and save the risk of EPO. The other thing is you seem to get the boost from having the numbers high, these guys all couldnt test over 50 during competition, so what was the point? I am clearly missing something here...

 

[bossetti]

Yes after learning more about all of this, I agree. No TRT. I tried it and immediately gained like 10 pounds which is no good for cycling. The question I have is do you get the same effect/outcome regardless of what you take. For instance if you are taking EPO and get your hematocrit up to 54 hemoglobin 18 and or taking Test and get the numbers to the same point...is the effect the same on performance? I always wondered that, because all of the pros in the 90's-2000's etc..were also taking test. Why wouldnt they just use test to get the numbers up and save the risk of EPO. The other thing is you seem to get the boost from having the numbers high, these guys all couldnt test over 50 during competition, so what was the point? I am clearly missing something here...

Yes a lot, first epo isnt risky for itself but its risky for the fact that rbc goes up so if test gives u the same effect it has the same risk
Then ofc its obvious thst going over 50 is gonna give u higher improvement, but theorically the higher u go the more improvement ur gonna get

Impact of alterations in total hemoglobin mass on VO 2max - PubMed

Training and hypoxia-associated changes in maximal oxygen uptake are mediated by different blood adaptations. Training increases blood volume because of plasma and red cell volume expansion, resulting in increased cardiac output, whereas hypoxia increases only red cell volume, leading to...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Then in the 90s was easy race with high hct if they were going to check "casually " u were dehidrated and they got a saline solution infusion to arrive exactly at 50%
Btw i think ur trt was a strong trt because u dont gain muscles randomly,but idk

 

[Feldy]

Yes a lot, first epo isnt risky for itself but its risky for the fact that rbc goes up so if test gives u the same effect it has the same risk
Then ofc its obvious thst going over 50 is gonna give u higher improvement, but theorically the higher u go the more improvement ur gonna get

Impact of alterations in total hemoglobin mass on VO 2max - PubMed

Training and hypoxia-associated changes in maximal oxygen uptake are mediated by different blood adaptations. Training increases blood volume because of plasma and red cell volume expansion, resulting in increased cardiac output, whereas hypoxia increases only red cell volume, leading to...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Then in the 90s was easy race with high hct if they were going to check "casually " u were dehidrated and they got a saline solution infusion to arrive exactly at 50%
Btw i think ur trt was a strong trt because u dont gain muscles randomly,but idk

With the test I think it was mostly water weight..I am guessing at some point it would have gone down but I did not like the weight gain. Yes it is my understanding that EPO in itself is not dangerous its the viscosity levels that become dangerous. I read somewhere that anything over 52 and like 17 the risks start going up exponentially. So i purposely kept it around that level and no more.

 

[bossetti]

With the test I think it was mostly water weight..I am guessing at some point it would have gone down but I did not like the weight gain. Yes it is my understanding that EPO in itself is not dangerous its the viscosity levels that become dangerous. I read somewhere that anything over 52 and like 17 the risks start going up exponentially. So i purposely kept it around that level and no more.

And u did the right thing tbh

 

[Beetheone]

With the test I think it was mostly water weight..I am guessing at some point it would have gone down but I did not like the weight gain. Yes it is my understanding that EPO in itself is not dangerous its the viscosity levels that become dangerous. I read somewhere that anything over 52 and like 17 the risks start going up exponentially. So i purposely kept it around that level and no more.

100% just water weight.

Unless you're an all out climber, the extra weight is nothing and that's coming from a total weight weenie. My race weight was 160 .... I'm as fast (if not faster) now at 184 (and 25yrs older). The strength and recovery are simply unmatched. Pile on all the other peptides available (Mots, NAD, SLU, Carnitine, Methylene Blue, BPC/TB, etc) over the top of TRT and I promise you ....you'll be superman ..... and you'll be doing it safely.

The worst part about doing TRT in my 50's ..... is realizing how outgunned I was in my 20's while being clean. I'm glad I was clean but I often wonder what would have been different if the playing field was even.

 

[Feldy]

100% just water weight.

Unless you're an all out climber, the extra weight is nothing and that's coming from a total weight weenie. My race weight was 160 .... I'm as fast (if not faster) now at 184 (and 25yrs older). The strength and recovery are simply unmatched. Pile on all the other peptides available (Mots, NAD, SLU, Carnitine, Methylene Blue, BPC/TB, etc) over the top of TRT and I promise you ....you'll be superman ..... and you'll be doing it safely.

The worst part about doing TRT in my 50's ..... is realizing how outgunned I was in my 20's while being clean. I'm glad I was clean but I often wonder what would have been different if the playing field was even.

Yes I returned to racing this year at 54 and was absolutely gobsmacked at how strong these guys are...Its kind of ridiculous. I am guessing most are using test and hgh minimum.