UG vs Pharm.Grade

[flyguy]

hey, just wondering for any feedback on results i can expect using the pharmacy grade testosterone i am planning to run. i will be running test cyp from balkan pharm, 200 mgs/ml.
i have just seen lots of juicers in my area using UGL products and the test doesn't seem to be doing as much as one would expect. two friends of mine, ran test cyp by a lab called GPI, they ran it at 600 mgs/wk, for 12 wks and while they said they gained strength, they didn't gain much size, except for maybe 8-10 lbs. When i'm using pharm.grade test, can i expect alot more gains? especially if my diet is strong and my training intensity is high?
the reason i ask this question is because i want to be able to gauge somewhat beforehand the gains that i will be making, because i am worried about exploding like so many guys say they do on their first cycles. i understand diet and training is the main focus of AAS but if those two thigns are on point than the gains should be massive, correct?
any advice or answers from personal experiences is much appreciated.

thanks all.

 

[Dzaster]

Obviously everyone acts different to different compounds. Can you find UG products that are just as good as Pharm..absolutely..it all depends on the lab and source. I would guarantee that your buddies diets werent that great. Thats where the mass is going to come from is the calories, carbs, proteins, and fats (and of course water weight). You know that..i read your post, your smart. I say post up your routine and diet and let us break it down for you. I promise we can get you more than 10lbs during your run..

 

[flyguy]

ya that makes sense to me.
i am 22, 5'9 (which surprised me when i was measured, i always thought i was taller lol) and 176 lbs yesterday.

I drink atleast 4000ml of water a day.
my diet consists of (all servings are large)

brkfst - oatmeal - either apple cinnamon or raison, 2 bowls
protein shake 50 grams w/water, large banana 2 whole eggs and 2 tbs cocoa.

10:45am - Fresh Fruit salad w/cottage cheese. 2or3 granola bars, depending how hungry i am lol

lunch - chicken, bread,or pasta w/ salad.

2:30 - Large subway sub

530 - Protein shake, same as the one above.

Workout 6-730ish
Protein shake same as above

830 - Supper, Usually i leave this one open, not as much routine cuz im a human being, not an underwear model lol. ill have things like homemade pizza, lasagne, perogies/sausage, etc. with someting like salad, or fruit tho.

before bed : usually a bowl of cereal or somethign if im still hungry.

i know its not the perfect diet, no excuses except being lazy but u know how it is to have a job and try to be healthy lol.
anyways, thanks for the help here.

 

[flyguy]

also my training consists of:
no set days at the gym since i work as a realtor and people want to see houses whenever they can,

but 4 days a wk for sure im in the gym

day1 - legs/abs
day2 - bis/tris/lats
day3 - chest/shoulders/traps
day4 - back/abs

cardio is done 30 mins on every gym day.
btwn 6-10 mph

i usually do days 1+2 monday/tuesday if i can,
than days 3 +4 are thursday, saturday.

 

[Meathead27]

hey, just wondering for any feedback on results i can expect using the pharmacy grade testosterone i am planning to run. i will be running test cyp from balkan pharm, 200 mgs/ml.

Testosterone is testosterone. Whether its human grade or UGL, its the same compound. The benefit of human grade is the peace of mind about dosing and quality control. Oh, and balkan is NOT human grade

http://newforum.israsport.org/uploads/20080108_164008_BPplusmuskito.JPG

 

[juicer08]

yeah bro balkan not HG and my opinion me personally i would use UGL thats reliable just because HG you have to get a loan from the bank to do a decent cycle

 

[flyguy]

Testosterone is testosterone. Whether its human grade or UGL, its the same compound. The benefit of human grade is the peace of mind about dosing and quality control. Oh, and balkan is NOT human grade

http://newforum.israsport.org/uploads/20080108_164008_BPplusmuskito.JPG

sorry dude, i know im new, but i have to disagree with you on the balkan not being human grade....obviously i could be wrong, but based on the picture of the vial you posted i can see it is not the same vial i have or have gotten in the past..., and i have ordered from balkan before. my source is legit, and all the guys that use the shit have nothign but good thigns to say about it.
even when i get the product, it comes with codes and serial numbers and shit. i know those can be faked, but this shit is legit. ill try to post some pics of what mine look like if i can.
but seriously, i have heard about alot of balkan counterfeits in the past. and even have seen vials posted of the same kind that you posted.
ill do some more research on it tho, cuz i like to know what exactly im gonna use lol and whether or not its solid.

http://www.elitefitness.com/articledata/efn/072407.html

check out that link, i know thigns can be made to seem however one wants to see them, but maybe this will change ur opinion lol.
but seriously, thanks for the input and debate [)]

 

[flyguy]

yeah bro balkan not HG and my opinion me personally i would use UGL thats reliable just because HG you have to get a loan from the bank to do a decent cycle

ya i hear ya, i know if you get it from a "retailer" it will be expensive, but where i get it from, its very very reasonable. wholesale brother. waaay cheaper. like half the cost seriously.

 

[juicer08]

bro we all know where the majority of balkan comes from you need to take your research further and also consider that source and their rep and then think again if its human grade

 

[flyguy]

bro we all know where the majority of balkan comes from you need to take your research further and also consider that source and their rep and then think again if its human grade

ya i hear you bro. can never be too careful. more research can never hurt.

 

[juicer08]

ya i hear ya, i know if you get it from a "retailer" it will be expensive, but where i get it from, its very very reasonable. wholesale brother. waaay cheaper. like half the cost seriously.

im talkin about true human grade dude is so so expensive im talkin like $100 -$140 per ten ml which most of the human grade ive come in contact which is amps there price ranging $9.50 - $15.00 per amp

 

[Meathead27]

im talkin about true human grade dude is so so expensive im talkin like $100 -$140 per ten ml which most of the human grade ive come in contact which is amps there price ranging $9.50 - $15.00 per amp

Judging from his response the OP doesn't seem to have a clue what human grade means

 

[juicer08]

no man i do i was just addressing the cost difference between human grade(real human grade) and the cost of balkan pharma thats all i was stating

 

[flyguy]

i know what you both mean, i was really under the impression that it was human grade, and i have seen all the arguments on forums all over the place, some say its garbage, a scam or w/e and some say its the best, and since i haven't used it, i can't say either. but it is cheap. which makes sense to me that it wouldn't be pharm.grade.

im gonna run it for my first cycle and see how it goes. [)]

 

[XKawN]

it's all relative. i bet if we had a pissing contest we would find that there are hg's running for pretty comparable prices to ug's. $100 for 10ml is criminal. i've seen it for almost half that in the gym and a 1/3 on the net and i'm talking hg. i don't think it matters which route you go as long as your supplier is a respected supplier using a respected lab.

 

[flyguy]

it's all relative. i bet if we had a pissing contest we would find that there are hg's running for pretty comparable prices to ug's. $100 for 10ml is criminal. i've seen it for almost half that in the gym and a 1/3 on the net and i'm talking hg. i don't think it matters which route you go as long as your supplier is a respected supplier using a respected lab.

good point.

 

[Millard]

Who are we kidding? All things being equal, if everyone had legal access to human grade pharmaceuticals, the UGLs would practically disappear. Of course, real human grade AAS manufactured by legitimate pharmaceutical companies are better than UGL AAS.

The real questions circulating on the forums involve whether certain brands are really human grade and/or legitimate pharmaceutical companies.

More pointedly, the question comes down to "who" owns these companies. This is ultimately what is causing the drama.

 

[flyguy]

Who are we kidding? All things being equal, if everyone had legal access to human grade pharmaceuticals, the UGLs would practically disappear. Of course, real human grade AAS manufactured by legitimate pharmaceutical companies are better than UGL AAS.

The real questions circulating on the forums involve whether certain brands are really human grade and/or legitimate pharmaceutical companies.

More pointedly, the question comes down to "who" owns these companies. This is ultimately what is causing the drama.

ya that is the issue at most places ive been, the man behind the mask seems to be the topic of some very heated debate that has been going on for years.
being as new as i am, i haven't had any experience with, or have been involved in any discussions regarding this topic other than this one.

Millard, what is your take on the subject?

 

[Millard]

ya that is the issue at most places ive been, the man behind the mask seems to be the topic of some very heated debate that has been going on for years.
being as new as i am, i haven't had any experience with, or have been involved in any discussions regarding this topic other than this one.

Millard, what is your take on the subject?

The ISSUE that we see played out on the bodybuilding forums arises primarily from disputes between major players behind certain UGLs and certain registered companies.

It seems it all revolves around the course of events related to the downfall of the former British Dragon and its aftermath.

Llewellyn's UNDERGROUND ANABOLICS puts together a history of the underground marketplace and tries to provide as many answers as possible. However, the entire history of what happened remains disputed and/or incomplete, and the entire truth may never be known.

What we do know is that some major players have attempted to make the transition to "legitimate" government-registered entities in the face of increased international steroid law enforcement.

These players have registered with local government agencies (FDA-equivalent) in Eastern European and/or Asian countries in order to operate "legally". As such, they are subject to the same regulations and enforcement as any other pharmaceutical company operating in those jurisdictions. I don't think there is factual dispute over the aforementioned statements.

However, various questions have been raised about the government regulations, enforcement, and company compliance in those jurisdictions e.g. are the government quality control standards as stringent as those in, for example, the USA? Does the local FDA adequately enforce those regulations? And what does this mean for the consumer?

 

[flyguy]

The ISSUE that we see played out on the bodybuilding forums arises primarily from disputes between major players behind certain UGLs and certain registered companies.

It seems it all revolves around the course of events related to the downfall of the former British Dragon and its aftermath.

Llewellyn's UNDERGROUND ANABOLICS puts together a history of the underground marketplace and tries to provide as many answers as possible. However, the entire history of what happened remains disputed and/or incomplete, and the entire truth may never be known.

What we do know is that some major players have attempted to make the transition to "legitimate" government-registered entities in the face of increased international steroid law enforcement.

These players have registered with local government agencies (FDA-equivalent) in Eastern European and/or Asian countries in order to operate "legally". As such, they are subject to the same regulations and enforcement as any other pharmaceutical company operating in those jurisdictions. I don't think there is factual dispute over the aforementioned statements.

However, various questions have been raised about the government regulations, enforcement, and company compliance in those jurisdictions e.g. are the government quality control standards as stringent as those in, for example, the USA? Does the local FDA adequately enforce those regulations? And what does this mean for the consumer?

so what you're saying is that even though these labs are operating with a "license", the licenses they have obtained could have been arranged through large pay outs and ass kissing, and not by actually following the standards set by local governments?

so it is up to the consumer to base his opinion on personal experience with said labs/players and not on the general concensus? i have read lots about the fall of BD and the actions of certain partners against other partners, but like you said, most of the story remains incomplete, with people on most forums that i have read basing their facts on hearsay or personal experience with the gear itself, and claiming "selective scamming" by some distributors, however for what ive read, it seems that the issue is with the players involved, not as much as the quality of the gear.

so technically, these "pharmaceutical corporations" could be ugls operating under the umbrella of government control, but not following proper guidelines for manufacturing?

LOL. this seems to me like it could be an endless debate, revolving around lots of personal experience, negative or positive, and not actual facts concerning lab quality.

Millard, do you think its possible for the consumer to ever know the truth?