My Visit with HAN and Dr. Overbeck

[dehook]

There hasn't been a feedback loop discovered with DHEA, so in theory it shouldn't suppress the body's natural production. I know Dr John Crisler isn't so sure of this, but his doubts are likely related to patients taking large doses, as HANS has said.

I have sent the makers of Twist25 Dhea cream an email regarding HPTA suppression, if I hear back from them I will post their response here.

 

[nickatnite]

72mg is a pretty high dose. i'm using 50mg TD. which has been a pretty popular dosage due to its limited side effects if any. the other thing is as far as i can tell i'm pretty much shut down as it is. i mean i had 0 libido. NONE. after an orgasm i would be tired for like 3-4 days. not to mention i couldn't have sex for another 7-10 days after because it just wasn't "there" and when i would get erections they would be weak and not last whatsoever. talk about depressing. within one week of applying the TD DHEA & stopping cortef I noticed an immediate improvement. Just this morning I woke up with a morning visitor that I haven't seen in at least a year. HAN & Dr. O know what they are doing. There is not one practitioner I know out there that reads & research's a much as HAN and I really admire that. I know I'm in good hands.

 

[nickatnite]

There hasn't been a feedback loop discovered with DHEA, so in theory it shouldn't suppress the body's natural production. I know Dr John Crisler isn't so sure of this, but his doubts are likely related to patients taking large doses, as HANS has said.

I have sent the makers of Twist25 Dhea cream an email regarding HPTA suppression, if I hear back from them I will post their response here.

Please do, I'm curious to see what one of their trained CS reps has to say I see adverts for Twist everywhere.

 

[Tyler81]

72mg is a pretty high dose. i'm using 50mg TD. which has been a pretty popular dosage due to its limited side effects if any. the other thing is as far as i can tell i'm pretty much shut down as it is. i mean i had 0 libido. NONE. after an orgasm i would be tired for like 3-4 days. not to mention i couldn't have sex for another 7-10 days after because it just wasn't "there" and when i would get erections they would be weak and not last whatsoever. talk about depressing. within one week of applying the TD DHEA & stopping cortef I noticed an immediate improvement. Just this morning I woke up with a morning visitor that I haven't seen in at least a year. HAN & Dr. O know what they are doing. There is not one practitioner I know out there that reads & research's a much as HAN and I really admire that. I know I'm in good hands.

that's cool man

"shut down" and libido are different animals. you can have a good libido on dhea, but simultaneously be supressing your hpta. but i'm not expert. i wish you the best of luck man, i dream of the day i will regain my own libido.

 

[dehook]

I wonder if anyone here has used a pregnenolone cream to top up DHEA levels? Pregnenolone also has no negative feedback loop, and a much better safety record than DHEA.

 

[virtuosa150]

to many are just trying to draw strawls because they are desperate for answers. It really depends on each indiviudal cases with alot of variable that need to be considered before trying to shot gun thing. Things have to be done in a systematic matter in order to follow some out of a logical methodology other wise one may creating more problems. I was guilty of this many years ago and it only retarded my progression.

I also agree with this. Before I started on TRT last year, I was fooling around with DIM and another OTC AI. I never had any blood tests done. I just read some of the BS on the bodybuilding websites about how DIM could do great things for me.

In my particular case, my E2 was naturally low. I probably really screwed myself up without knowing it. Now I don't fool around with things like this until I discuss it with my doc. There can never be enough testing in my opinion.

 

[dehook]

I don't think anyone disputed the importance of labs. In terms of my own current situation, the fact that I am almost willing to try anything at this point has nothing to do with lack of labs, quite the opposite. I have made improvements, but am still not close to where I want to be.

I don't see the harm in experimenting with OTC supplements such as DIM,as long as you listen carefully to your body and dose responsibly. I myself took DIM for high E2 (but it wasn't high in relation to my SHBG), and ended up with sore joints, depression and even worse sexual function for a week. No big deal.

What I do advise people to stay away from is OTC bodybuilding supplements. So many of these are spiked with steroids and god knows what else, which can cause permanent damage. I think most people underestimate how poorly regulated the supplement industry is.

So choose your supplements with care, and make sure you are getting a quality product.

 

[nickatnite]

I completely agree with you dehook. There's a lot of dangers out there with supplements on the market. You have supplement companies hiding the active ingredient of viagra in OTC ED drugs.. Protein powders testing positive for heavy metals (probably because of importing from china.) I wish people would pay more attention and not try to just swallow the latest magic pill. Most people now a days are taking so many supplements that some are crossing each other out, and maybe even being counter productive.

 

[Michael Scally MD]

I completely agree with you dehook. There's a lot of dangers out there with supplements on the market. You have supplement companies hiding the active ingredient of viagra in OTC ED drugs.. Protein powders testing positive for heavy metals (probably because of importing from china.) I wish people would pay more attention and not try to just swallow the latest magic pill. [Or apply transdermally.] Most people now a days are taking so many supplements that some are crossing each other out, and maybe even being counter productive.

There is so much irony in your post and the consult with HAN that it is difficult to know where to begin. BTW: Why don't you ask HAN about the HPTA feedback and "bio-identical" testosterone? LOL

 

[nickatnite]

hey everyone.. i will upload newer test results soon. this was in the beginning when i was first
diagnosed.

 

[nickatnite]

Dr. Scally - Why the jokes? I mean seriously. I came to this board and received a lot of support & valuable advice from numerous people. HAN being one of them. Everything HAN has told me to do has made me feel a lot better. If you disagree with something and you feel its of benefit, please speak on it. But don't sit here and act like I'm looking for some magic pill. I've been going through these issues for 2 years now and every doctor including endocrines and other specialists have only made my situation worse. After all this I'm still keeping an open mind. Can't remember the last time I went to a Dr's office and he made fun of me.

 

[hardasnails1973]

There is so much irony in your post and the consult with HAN that it is difficult to know where to begin. BTW: Why don't you ask HAN about the HPTA feedback and "bio-identical" testosterone? LOL

It takes a real ingrid to sit and insult other people when finally they are getting help. The irony of this post is that he is doing what every one else is doing looking for answers. Dr's are afraid to try new things and step out of the box because of mockery from other tightwade Dr's that do stuff by the book. More dr's need to follow people like DrO and myself, Dr Crisler, shippen, mariano and others that are finally starting getting on the band wagon to actually practice preventative medicine. Just may be the medical community might wise up and get their asses out of the stone age and coming into the new era of modern medicine.

 

[m_ob]

It takes a real ingrid to sit and insult other people when finally they are getting help. The irony of this post is that he is doing what every one else is doing looking for answers. Dr's are afraid to try new things and step out of the box because of mockery from other tightwade Dr's that do stuff by the book. More dr's need to follow people like DrO and myself, Dr Crisler, shippen, mariano and others that are finally starting getting on the band wagon to actually practice preventative medicine. Just may be the medical community might wise up and get their asses out of the stone age and coming into the new era of modern medicine.

The roots of conventional medicine will and must not be removed. They can be altered slightly, but honestly think back, what has more research, funding, and experience throughout all of history. What you are proposing is a step backwards in the field of medicine. You claim this is all state of the art when some of it is indeed fraud. The nutraeval, hair analysis, urine testing, most if not all of it has not been legitimately proven and approved by the specialist such as Dr. Scally himself. Don't think I do this to smite you. I've mentioned before that conventional medicine has failed me in the past ( the failure of Mayo to diagnos me with anything) but I did not give up. I took that failure and turned it into a drive to find out what the hell was going on myself and it's gotten me further than any doctor, excluding some, could have. I want to let it be know that what has fueled my drive is the research of Modern Clinical Medicine, not "state of the art cutting edge medicine.."

 

[nickatnite]

The roots of conventional medicine will and must not be removed. They can be altered slightly, but honestly think back, what has more research, funding, and experience throughout all of history. What you are proposing is a step backwards in the field of medicine. You claim this is all state of the art when some of it is indeed fraud. The nutraeval, hair analysis, urine testing, most if not all of it has not been legitimately proven and approved by the specialist such as Dr. Scally himself. Don't think I do this to smite you. I've mentioned before that conventional medicine has failed me in the past ( the failure of Mayo to diagnos me with anything) but I did not give up. I took that failure and turned it into a drive to find out what the hell was going on myself and it's gotten me further than any doctor, excluding some, could have. I want to let it be know that what has fueled my drive is the research of Modern Clinical Medicine, not "state of the art cutting edge medicine.."

I agree with you mob. The roots of conventional medicine are important. However, in my opinion conventional medicine and complimentary need to be combined. At some point the world will wake up. Yes theres money and research behind big pharma. But what about thousand year old remedies using herbs that have been proven to work. And yes maybe Harvard and other universities haven't "done" studies on it. But who the fuck is going to fund them? Glaxo Smith Kline isn't going to make a boatload on proving that RED YEAST RICE lowers cholesterol without ANY side effects as long as its taken with a little Co-Q10. They need to create a little pill that looks cool and has a name that doesn't make any sense. I have helped countless people myself during my studies in herbology. (However, I did study applied science & nutrition first.) Not to mention I watched my mom suffer for 8 years with Cancer while the Doctor's did nothing but promise us they are doing the best they could do. Not one person recommended Co-Q10, Curcumin or any other kind of immune boosting/antioxidant supplement that would of made the chemo & cancer treatments easier. So as far as I'm concerned you have to be your own advocate. I have a lot of respect for those in conventional medicine but I wish more people would be open to new ideas. After all, when did these pharm companies ever have our best interest in mind? Blindness as a side effect for getting a boner? Come on... I feel bad for the fucker's girlfriend who had to fill out the "side effects i experienced" section of the survey.

 

[CubbieBlue]

It takes a real ingrid to sit and insult other people when finally they are getting help. The irony of this post is that he is doing what every one else is doing looking for answers. Dr's are afraid to try new things and step out of the box because of mockery from other tightwade Dr's that do stuff by the book. More dr's need to follow people like DrO and myself, Dr Crisler, shippen, mariano and others that are finally starting getting on the band wagon to actually practice preventative medicine. Just may be the medical community might wise up and get their asses out of the stone age and coming into the new era of modern medicine.

Yep, real "ingrids" you twat.

I love how you lump all doctors into your group of idiots, and you lump yourself into guys that actually understand how the gonadal feedback system works.

"The NEW era of modern medicine?"

The era where you tell people to eat 30 uni-liver tabs a day, drink 9 gallons of iodine, take $300 worth of supplements a month, (you piss out 98% of that shit) and tell people that "bio-identical testosterone" won't shut down their feedback loop?

 

[CubbieBlue]

I agree with you mob. The roots of conventional medicine are important. However, in my opinion conventional medicine and complimentary need to be combined. At some point the world will wake up. Yes theres money and research behind big pharma. But what about thousand year old remedies using herbs that have been proven to work. And yes maybe Harvard and other universities haven't "done" studies on it. But who the fuck is going to fund them? Glaxo Smith Kline isn't going to make a boatload on proving that RED YEAST RICE lowers cholesterol without ANY side effects as long as its taken with a little Co-Q10. They need to create a little pill that looks cool and has a name that doesn't make any sense. I have helped countless people myself during my studies in herbology. (However, I did study applied science & nutrition first.) Not to mention I watched my mom suffer for 8 years with Cancer while the Doctor's did nothing but promise us they are doing the best they could do. Not one person recommended Co-Q10, Curcumin or any other kind of immune boosting/antioxidant supplement that would of made the chemo & cancer treatments easier. So as far as I'm concerned you have to be your own advocate. I have a lot of respect for those in conventional medicine but I wish more people would be open to new ideas. After all, when did these pharm companies ever have our best interest in mind? Blindness as a side effect for getting a boner? Come on... I feel bad for the fucker's girlfriend who had to fill out the "side effects i experienced" section of the survey.

Dude -

You have to understand natural/herb/from a plant does NOT equal without side effects. Some of these herbs and supplements are just as toxic and harmful as pharmaceutical drugs, with none or little of the efficacy.

If the drug/herb/whatever has any REAL clinical efficacy someone will start doing research on it so someone can sell it at a higher price. Vitamin D anyone?

 

[m_ob]

I agree with you mob. The roots of conventional medicine are important. However, in my opinion conventional medicine and complimentary need to be combined. At some point the world will wake up. Yes theres money and research behind big pharma. But what about thousand year old remedies using herbs that have been proven to work. And yes maybe Harvard and other universities haven't "done" studies on it. But who the fuck is going to fund them? Glaxo Smith Kline isn't going to make a boatload on proving that RED YEAST RICE lowers cholesterol without ANY side effects as long as its taken with a little Co-Q10. They need to create a little pill that looks cool and has a name that doesn't make any sense. I have helped countless people myself during my studies in herbology. (However, I did study applied science & nutrition first.) Not to mention I watched my mom suffer for 8 years with Cancer while the Doctor's did nothing but promise us they are doing the best they could do. Not one person recommended Co-Q10, Curcumin or any other kind of immune boosting/antioxidant supplement that would of made the chemo & cancer treatments easier. So as far as I'm concerned you have to be your own advocate. I have a lot of respect for those in conventional medicine but I wish more people would be open to new ideas. After all, when did these pharm companies ever have our best interest in mind? Blindness as a side effect for getting a boner? Come on... I feel bad for the fucker's girlfriend who had to fill out the "side effects i experienced" section of the survey.

It's all about the damn money. Then again, when is it not.

 

[nickatnite]

It's all about the damn money. Then again, when is it not.

Should be about helping people.. That's why we have to do our own research and read the boards

 

[poisonesspimp]

Dude -

You have to understand natural/herb/from a plant does NOT equal without side effects. Some of these herbs and supplements are just as toxic and harmful as pharmaceutical drugs, with none or little of the efficacy.

If the drug/herb/whatever has any REAL clinical efficacy someone will start doing research on it so someone can sell it at a higher price. Vitamin D anyone?

Without a doubt, the problem is the herb can actually help you but it's overloaded with toxic metals and such that will screw you even worse. Getting into stuff like that I like to see if the company has done a heavy metal analysis on it. Then again you have some herbs that have been studied and found out their drastic amounts of great effects being turmeric as one I know the guy above mentioned turmeric as well.

 

[nickatnite]

Without a doubt, the problem is the herb can actually help you but it's overloaded with toxic metals and such that will screw you even worse. Getting into stuff like that I like to see if the company has done a heavy metal analysis on it. Then again you have some herbs that have been studied and found out their drastic amounts of great effects being turmeric as one I know the guy above mentioned turmeric as well.

Turmeric is great for Heavy Metals.. Good call man. It's ashame we live in such a polluted world but that's the way it is. When buying herbs and other "natural" substances you have to really go with a reputable company. I'm not saying all herbs are safe, you have to do your research of course. But, there's a lot of benefits of trying a natural approach first. Try to buy organic if you can afford it and go with companies that send their products off to independent testing labs which some do. Even then it won't guarantee complete safety, but you get more of a piece of mind.