cheating

[skywalk]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=rq45TZHsgoc&feature=endscreen

I would like to get everyone's opinion on cheating. If you watch the video of him doing lat pulldowns, you can see his entire ass coming off the seat, then he sits back/swings the weight down.

in another video of him training biceps, he's allowing his torso to flex forward and backward at the waist, as he swings the barbell up in the barbell curl.

now, i know many people insist on STRICT form, getting a full ROM, stretch and contract going, but after watching Cutler train with so much cheating involved, and getting so huge, are we all wasting our time in the pursuit of strict form, if we can swing weights around and still get results?

 

[Mr. Joe]

The video is down. However, there are two main considerations when discussing form. Number 1 is safety. Proper form ensures the least probability of injury. But for most people, the second consideration is perhaps more convincing. Insisting on controlled motion throughout the entire range of motion maximizes the tension placed on you muscle fibers throughout the rep. This is essentially what we want to do to stimulate hypertrophy. So the adage "you're only cheating yourself" holds true.

But more to your point, can you achieve the same gains by "cheating," as I see many MUCH more muscular guys than myself do in the gym everyday? Simply put, yes. The tradeoff is more subtle. By cheating on the force you apply each rep due to improper form, you have to increase the weight by a certain factor to achieve the same stimulus as someone using correct form. For example, if you are curling 100 lbs but using your waist and momentum to help you, then I could be generating just as much force, if not more, throughout the exercise by using only 70 lbs with correct form.

I think that bad form is propagated in the gym because of the above situation. People see guys lifting more weight with bad form and "know" they have to lift more weight to get bigger. So they compromise form to lift heavier weights. When in reality, you have to generate more force to get bigger, which eventually requires heavier weights. It's a subtle difference, but I think it's an important one. Think of it this way. By cheating on form, you are wasting the gains you could have made at those lower weights and sooner or later you will find the weight limit your joints will tolerate. So using correct form, IMO maximizes your potential for gains over time. I recommend a 2-1-4 rep cadence (con:iso:ecc) as this maximizes tension throughout the lift.

 

[Demondosage]

The reason a professional bodybuilder uses sloppy form is pretty simple. He is so far beyond the basic stages of growth and development that his only priority at that point is to train for volumization and "pump" The cheating (although other assistance muscles help) keeps the rep speed quicker and allows less rest points and constant muscle contraction. A good example of this would be to do a set of pushups in a faster pace without full lockout of the arms. When you start to fatigue start doing them quicker. You will find that the pump becomes more and more intense, despite loose form. Same holds true for other muscles, however a pro is so experienced and knows his body so well that he knows what he can get away with and what he cant. I myself do not train this way, I'm more of a Mike Mentzer/ Dorian Yates style guy. But I think to answer your question, that is the logic behind it

 

[Pericles]

The truth is, on some lifts you cannot/should not cheat. Deadlifts and squats, and to a lesser degree bench.

However, some lifts you SHOULD do some controlled cheating. For example, lat pull downs. You can/should cheat a bit to get the bar all the way down. The key is, that you must control and slow down the negative portion of the rep and be 100% sure that you are mentally connected to the muscles being worked.

 

[MANWHORE]

Who is he cheating against?

If Lance Armstrong was racing himself,
would he be considered a cheater? ...

If your using TUT Time Under Tension, then
cheating, as you call it, is probably a bad idea...

If wanting to take advantage of this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stretch_reflex

Then cheat away...
I do it all the time... Almost got caught once..

Yeah, no shit either...
I had this one girl bent over the hood of my car,
and my other bitch was just putting the key in ...
Nevermind...

Cheat away my friend...

Control cheat, if that makes sense..
If you have bad back or bones, tendons.. anything hurt,
then use controlled TUT like Pakulski uses..
I think he does, anyway

 

[509iron]

video is not working... I know when Im maxed out on the weight my form is not perfect.

 

[Donzi]

video is not working... I know when Im maxed out on the weight my form is not perfect.

Shove that 1 Rep Max. str8 up her ass..
I grow much much better 4-5 good clean reps than 1 shit 1.

 

[Mr. Joe]

I grow much much better 4-5 good clean reps than 1 shit 1.

Yeah, research shows an AVERAGE of 80% 1RM (6-8RM) to be most effective for building mass in trained individuals.

 

[MANWHORE]

Yeah, research shows an AVERAGE of 80% 1RM (6-8RM) to be most effective for building mass in trained individuals.

Research also shows it to be 8-12 reps..

O wait, another shows it to be 12-15reps..

I thought it was 2-5reps for mass

 

[Mr. Joe]

8-15RM is reported to maximize hypertrophy in numerous studies. A closer look at specifically untrained men shows that an average of 10-12RM intensity is more effective for hypertrophy in untrained men. In trained individuals, a higher intensity is required, 6-8 RM average has been shown to achieve the highest gains.

When you read one scientific study that finds a different conclusion than a separate study, one doesn't discount the other typically. This is the case when flawed or primitive methodology is replaced with more precise methods yielding a conclusion more accurate to Truth. Generally, though, two conflicting studies are taking into account separate perspectives of the same problem and have to be viewed in a larger context.

 

[MANWHORE]

90% of the time, I don't counts reps, anyway.
I don't even stay at the same cadence during a set...

I like to keep people guessing about my workouts,
when they watch me, in the gym..
I don't like people following me, by doing the same

I drive my car the same way..
Sometimes I will drive on the sidewalk,
if I think someone is following me.

 

[Romulus]

I employ cheating in a lot of movements when I feel it's safe (Like Pericles said, never in squats or deads or anything that stresses my weak structural points--for me, lower back). I do it on my heavy set because the weak points in my range of motion restrict the tension I could otherwise place on the muscle in its stronger points. I'll do a couple lighter, stricter sets usually as a kind of warm up, then use a little swing at the bottom of the movement on the heavier sets to get past the points where leverage is working against me (e.g. the bottom of the range on curls or lateral raises). That also allows for a good, heavy negative on each rep.