**Gyno related** Lowered my test dose, added masteron, buuuuut...

[cellis]

At the suggestion of Dr. Jim et. al. I lowered my dose of test (was 1,000mg a week) due to side effects, one of which was early signs of gyno (itching, tenderness, some puffiness). Took it down to 400 mg test a week and added 300mg mast—have been running this for 3, maybe three and a half weeks. Also traded out my nolvadex (since I’m on paxil and paxil interferes with the action of nolva) for raloxifene, which I ordered from well-known research chemical lab. Should also add I’ve been taking 12.5 mg aromasin then ran out two weeks ago but have a new batch coming. At first, it felt as though the raloxifene had clamped down on the gyno symptoms and reduced the puffiness, but last week and a half, all that seems to be coming back. Immediately upped my ralox dose to 90 ml a day—no luck.

So I’m thinking there could be a couple of reasons for this:

One, my ralox is bunk or underdosed…

Two, I’ve been off the aromasin, and I’m soooooo prone to gyno--even at 400mg test--that ralox alone one stop it from developing.

I’m a little confused because I had gathered from Dr. Jim’s posts and from the posts of others that—disregarding other symptoms associated with high estrogen—a SERM alone should be sufficient to treat the gyno.

Opinions?

 

[Gunrunner]

I had to use and AI (dex) and SERM (Nolva) to solve my gyno issues. The Nolva has been proven to reduce gyno but the high E2 could be the root cause so the AI is still needed. Labs with your E2 would help a lot.

I know of others on Paxil that have similar problems with gyno. Perhaps they will jump in with what worked for them.

 

[johnnyBALLZ]

I'm not a doctor but I'm in your same situation. I take a low dose (15mg) Paxil ED and I've been dealing with gyno for most of this year..

I love CEM and I'm not blaming them but the ralox made my gyno worse believe it or not for the 2 weeks or so I was on it. After consulting with 1-4 who started it at the same time as me I decided to drop it (his gyno also got worse). Nolva is effective for me which leads me to believe the Paxil/nolva thing my be dose related.. I don't have anything to back that up besides my personal experience so TIFWIW.. Within 2 weeks of running the nolva at 40mg ED along with my .75mg adex my gyno was back under control somewhat.

IMO you should drop the ralox since it's not working and start back on the nolva ASAP.. Also up the aromasin to 25mg ED until it's under control. CEM can get that shit to you in 2 days, I'm not trying to bust your hump but you never should've let yourself run out of it man, lesson learned though I guess. Good luck, I know it sucks..

 

[cellis]

I had to use and AI (dex) and SERM (Nolva) to solve my gyno issues. The Nolva has been proven to reduce gyno but the high E2 could be the root cause so the AI is still needed. Labs with your E2 would help a lot.

I know of others on Paxil that have similar problems with gyno. Perhaps they will jump in with what worked for them.

Last labs I had done I was taking 1,000mg test weekly and 12.5mg aromasin a day, and my estradiol was past the middle of the normal range (ref range 20-70 pg/dl), if I recall.

 

[cellis]

I love CEM and I'm not blaming them but the ralox made my gyno worse believe it or not for the 2 weeks or so I was on it. After consulting with 1-4 who started it at the same time as me I decided to drop it (his gyno also got worse). Nolva is effective for me which leads me to believe the Paxil/nolva thing my be dose related..

Here's what I'm unsure about: if the enzyme needed for nolva to be effective is being competed for by paxil, how much, if any, of that enzyme is left around for the nolva?

IMO you should drop the ralox since it's not working and start back on the nolva ASAP.. Also up the aromasin to 25mg ED until it's under control. CEM can get that shit to you in 2 days, I'm not trying to bust your hump but you never should've let yourself run out of it man, lesson learned though I guess. Good luck, I know it sucks..

The ralox is from CEM. But like I said, the nolva hadn't been doing it's job either prior to the ralox, and I'd been on nolva for a month when I dropped it. My aromasin should be here tomorrow. I'll start at 25 mg a day and taper from there. Undecided about the ralox...

 

[johnnyBALLZ]

Here's what I'm unsure about: if the enzyme needed for nolva to be effective is being competed for by paxil, how much, if any, of that enzyme is left around for the nolva?



The ralox is from CEM. But like I said, the nolva hadn't been doing it's job either prior to the ralox, and I'd been on nolva for a month when I dropped it. My aromasin should be here tomorrow. I'll start at 25 mg a day and taper from there. Undecided about the ralox...

That's the million dollar question right there.. I've searched and searched to no avail.. How much Paxil are you taking?

Hmmm... Sorry, I missed the part about the nolva not working..

How bad is the gyno? Do you have a lump? How big would you estimate it to be?

 

[cellis]

That's the million dollar question right there.. I've searched and searched to no avail.. How much Paxil are you taking?

Hmmm... Sorry, I missed the part about the nolva not working..

How bad is the gyno? Do you have a lump? How big would you estimate it to be?

20 mg of paxil daily.

As far as the gyno, if I palpate each breast, there's no specific spot that jumps out, no pea-shaped bump or any kind of singular, defined lump. I can feel ridges, like crests and valleys, traveling outward from around the nipple of both breasts. Visually, I can see a soft, squishy boundary developing below the right pec and seemingly getting lower as time goes on, one that wasn't there a couple of months ago. Both nipples itch and are very tender to the touch. Maybe it's not gyno, maybe I'm just getting fat, or maybe I'm bloated from the test (but is it even possible to get "breast bloat" LOL is that even a thing?).

 

[foreveryoung]

if someone has gyno issues, it seems to me that 400mg test is still a huge dose

 

[johnnyBALLZ]

20 mg of paxil daily.

As far as the gyno, if I palpate each breast, there's no specific spot that jumps out, no pea-shaped bump or any kind of singular, defined lump. I can feel ridges, like crests and valleys, traveling outward from around the nipple of both breasts. Visually, I can see a soft, squishy boundary developing below the right pec and seemingly getting lower as time goes on, one that wasn't there a couple of months ago. Both nipples itch and are very tender to the touch. Maybe it's not gyno, maybe I'm just getting fat, or maybe I'm bloated from the test (but is it even possible to get "breast bloat" LOL is that even a thing?).

It definitely sounds like the onset of gyno. Get back on the aromasin tomorrow and maybe do a combo with the ralox and nolva if you don't want to give up on the ralox.. Like 30mg/20mg.. I'm just throwing ideas out... You're not on a much more Paxil than me.. I can definitely say 40mg nolva works for me.

 

[Ravtech]

20 mg of paxil daily.

As far as the gyno, if I palpate each breast, there's no specific spot that jumps out, no pea-shaped bump or any kind of singular, defined lump. I can feel ridges, like crests and valleys, traveling outward from around the nipple of both breasts. Visually, I can see a soft, squishy boundary developing below the right pec and seemingly getting lower as time goes on, one that wasn't there a couple of months ago. Both nipples itch and are very tender to the touch. Maybe it's not gyno, maybe I'm just getting fat, or maybe I'm bloated from the test (but is it even possible to get "breast bloat" LOL is that even a thing?).

I am prone to storing fat on my chest, and I think if you were just getting fat you wouldn't also have tenderness and itchiness. When my bf climbs my chest will grow (thanks to my shit genetics) but I don't experience any of those sides. Definitely sounds more like gyno than just getting fatter, from my experience anyhow.

 

[weekend]

pharma grade ralox works well for me. i would question the quality of your ralox.

the 2 strongest gyno reducers i have tried though, are masteron and prami.

up your masteron, drop your test to 200, and add prami at .125 mg a day and ramp up slowly to .4 ish mg a day.

raloxifene also takes time to work, and is really best for off cycle gyno reversal, not on cycle gyno reversal.

i have been using raloxifene and prami this whole cycle, test 350 mast 525 tren 350 ish (doses have waivered) and the gyno has shrunk slowly all cycle. it's no longer hard tissue but just a small soft lump which could obviously blow up at any time still but if i maintain it at this size its basically like i don't have gyno. so i am happy.

get prami, up your mast. lower test until an AI is there.

high estrogen leads to high prolactin as well, and a SERM only blocks effect of estrogen at receptor so prolactin can still raise.

and i dont care what anyone says, you don't need to be on a 19-nor to raise your prolactin.

 

[cellis]

I love CEM and I'm not blaming them but the ralox made my gyno worse believe it or not for the 2 weeks or so I was on it. After consulting with 1-4 who started it at the same time as me I decided to drop it (his gyno also got worse).

Oh shit, what to make of this: http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/content/15/6/1153.short

From the abstract: "Results: Of the 27 subjects who completed 12 months of raloxifene, 23 had paired prolactin samples, and 20 had paired estradiol and SHBG samples. Prolactin levels did not significantly change with raloxifene treatment, but SHBG levels increased (mean change = 7.3 nmol/L; P = 0.0001; 95% confidence interval, 3.9-10.7). Estradiol (mean change = 42 pg/mL; P = 0.048; 95% confidence interval, 1-84 pg/mL) levels were elevated when comparing 15 of the 20 women with paired estradiol measurements who also had both of these samples taken during the early follicular phase of the menstrual cycle."

 

[cellis]

Paging Dr. Scally, Dr. Jim...

 

[cellis]

i have been using raloxifene and prami this whole cycle, test 350 mast 525 tren 350 ish (doses have waivered) and the gyno has shrunk slowly all cycle. it's no longer hard tissue but just a small soft lump which could obviously blow up at any time still but if i maintain it at this size its basically like i don't have gyno. so i am happy.

get prami, up your mast. lower test until an AI is there.
.

Prami is a no-go at the moment since I just purchased the aromasin. Aromasin will be here today. Gonna hit soon as it's here. Sill think I should reduce the test and up the mast?

 

[weekend]

absolutely.

masteron and other androgenic DHT based compounds actually reduce prolactin on their own through dopamine upregulation, while simultaneously reducing estrogen, AND being androgenic they improve the androgen to estrogen ratio.

interesting how the ralox increased estrogen...

 

[BuffnStuff]

If the Aromasin isn't working. Pick up some Arimidex, its stronger and you only have to take it every other day compared to ever day with Aromasin.

 

[solo47]

If the Aromasin isn't working. Pick up some Arimidex, its stronger and you only have to take it every other day compared to ever day with Aromasin.

I don't believe this is necessarily factual information. Most of us take 25 mg of Aromasin EOD or 0.5 mg Adex EOD, only increasing with signs of gyno. It's arguable which is stronger at such similar dosages.

By the way, I love Mast, but I believe it has been shown not to do much as an AI.

Solo

 

[Babar]

It sounds like gyno. Keep running the raloxifene at 60 mg/day, and you may want some letro. This stack usually works for me, and I run test at high doses.