Sex Hormone Binding Globulin [SHBG]

[flex001]

400 iu on top of the Androgel is probably overkill. I'm prescribed injections so I can't speak on Androgel but as for the HCG, 250 iu twice a week should be sufficient. The high E2 is also more than likely the cause of your high blood pressure. You're probably holding a ton of water.

I agree with Ken in regards to your lipid profile. AI's wreak havoc on lipids and long term use also affects bone density. Dropping your E2 too low also creates problems such as low libido. It's important to find the fine line. I'd reduce the HCG before adding another AI.

 

[Misterboots]

I will have to ask for lipid panel test if it wasn't done, and am not due back for another 3 months. ken-I have d/c'd the HCG for now, about two or three weeks now I have been off. Will try to cut back on the ai use, which I find is possible now that I started bp med and am not so panicky. The bp and estrogen do seem related, but as you can tell my comprehension of what is going on is elementary. My job in all this is to train hard and loose the weight, and that is my focus. Trust the doc, loose the weight. Will definitely post latest labs and keep everyone posted as I shed more lbs.

 

[BBC3]

It's not my garbage. It's a well known condition. Google might serve you well.

You are clearly trolling. Trolling is against the rules.

I don't know James. I'm not siding with Jim - I'm just saying .... Low SHBG is a CONDITION Alright. HOWEVER, I would think its a CONDITION of a SUBSET of more PRIMARY and SUPERIOR CAUSATION /further up the tree...

I only jump in here to EpiphanIZE, as I see this line of THOUGH PROCESS as a MAJOR FACET of FAILURE with the current thinking standards of the Scientific Medical Establishment, and thus WHY WE DON'T KNOW TODAY...

You are HYPERFOCUSING ON ONE ASPECT of the SYMPHONY of the HUMAN BIOLOGICAL CONDITION.

So my thought process and starting from the ground up...:
1. Problem is poor physical condition as complaint/symptom.
2. General poor PHYSICAL Habits are common today with all & STARTING with Exercise and Diet in this current economy of ROMAN TIMES BASTARDIZED.
3. You can further split those two, but again - DEMAND is the PRIMARY. Without WORKLOAD/DEMAND for proper diet, there is LUXURY to "Food Slum".
4. ALSO- Without work, there is not need to ever CREATE new tissue action, and MORE SO to the point, no call to maintenance what is there. "AGING", as modern society HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH AGE CAPACITY. We are worthless...
5. SHBG is a basic protien which is SYNTHESIZED by the body, NOT EATEN. It makes sense to RATION that if you have enough to live, you have ENOUGH. The demand is simply not there.
6. To even ATTEMPT to evaluate SHBG based on a SNAP SHOT serum count is POINTLESS as not only will you NEVER KNOW the actual TRANSFER/METABOLISM RATE, its one of the most difficult to qualify due to the accounting method science uses (MOLES).
7. I SUSPECT one of the reasons science MUST Quantify it by this means is DUE TO THE FACT that SHBG SERVICES MANY HORMONES (not just T). Thus each hormone has a different metabolism rate. Not to mention SHBG services FRONT SIDE (a) Production & (b) cross conversion once in play, BUT ALSO ELIMINATION most likely..
8. Not to Mention - This all has to do with the same organ (liver) on unclear levels of MANUFACTURE, ENZYMES, & CLEARANCE.
9. This all servicing TESTOSTERONE Which is FURTHEST FROM THE SOURCE OF DEMAND, or the END TISSUE RECEPTORS which are INCURRING THE WORK, Sending and receiving CNS Signals, & Actually CHARGING as well as Serving as the "Battery" to hold the Charge.
10. So don't forget the CNS as BOTH a "Middle-Man" and well as a POTENTIATOR....!
11. Still, this is an unlikely culprit as AGAIN, if its workin- ITS WORKING... OR... If it aint broke DONT FIX IT...

** But if you examine the whole system from Environmental Stimulus all the way down to DNA composition and RNA activity, SHBG is a "Bitch of BITCHEZ" ONLY Sevicing the METABOLISM of HORMONES, NOT the demand. This is a "BIOLOGICAL PHONE CALL" which if you consider... AS ANALOGUE (old school) - we go to work, eat to work, Sleep to Fuel, and go to work. If you NOW want to DIGITIZE the TRANSACTION to High Speed ISP, we are basically TRANSCODING the transaction with a CONVERTED WHICH WE KNOW NOT HOW IT WORKS. Its like writing machine code via a Computer Programming Language Compiler. This is probably a very good analogy of the METHOD which "Medical Science STUMBLES AROUND IN THE DARK", and finding a crumb from time to time - BUT ALWAYS NEGATED (or at least STALLED) by all the "WrongLeft's@Albiquerqui.com Its like we were MADE TO WALK IN CIRCLES. Else, if we were to decipher the code, we would be capable of interfering with our Master's intention. The Program is nothing without the SOURCE CODE... Its an INHERENT and BUILT-IN SECURITY PROTOCOL that supersedes design facet...

** With all that said really you must consider that this POINT of "SECURING THE CODE" as a method which is COMPLETELY UNRELATED TO THE CODE. We are talking apples and oranges. So its via the action of NATURAL CONCOMITANT CONDITIONS which the CONUNDRUM Exists and EVEN Potentiates depending of how far off we travel, and what bones we get from time to time. The "Bones" are essentially WORM HOLES IN SPACE - WHICH are SUPERIOR to TIME. But in the end if you only get to the 5 yard line, and then step back through a HOLE putting you back in your endzone to restart on the 20, or WORSE TOUCHBACK, you really did a lot of work to When ALL ALONG you should have never even got out of the chair. ZERO SUM AND ALL - Navigating REALITY from SUCKER PLAYS is an art from for which PROFITS are INSTRUCTED and MESSIAH'S Either DECIPHER OR CREATE... So while I EQUATE the PROCESS to SPACE, as Incessantly jumping around through portals all leading to NO WHERE, the TIME FACTOR pertains to WHEN you get out of the chair, and WHEN you make that TURN. IS it the RIGHT ONE>.....!???!

Again, I will share my "time machine" once its complete.... LOL

*** All Fun Bullshit. Just saying - Don't get suckered in to a dead end ally with only a "ManHole Cover to lesser places".. ( the obvious irony being that they are so heavy, awkward, and clearly attempting to keep us out or "protecting us from a bad step") Yet we sometimes leave no other point of escape. Some of us even WANT to get in the shit.

Still, everyone is taught to look so close, and for so long, and to learn what is put on the plate. When all along the only clairvoyance may be the DARK, and to BLIND OURSELVES from common current RHETORIC. So EVEN A SEWER MAY have a Positive Aspect... In the RIGHT light...:drooling:

 

[kawilt]

Damn BBC3 whatever your on down there in Nastyville, send me some.....[)]

 

[James23]

BBC,

By the same logic, testosterone output could be seen to always be equivalent to the body's need, but we know this to be false as libido, muscle and mood decay. The human condition includes that the body will make mistakes in chronic or insidious ways.

SHBG deficiencies, when combined with exogenous testosterone, lead to excess aromatization. As such, nearly all men on TRT with non-responsive SHBG require an endocrine disruptor like Arimidex to work around the excessive estrogen. If a deficiency in the production of the SHBG protein necessitates yet another medication (like an AI), then this deficiency is indeed a part of the disorder. Because it requires medication, there no question it is an unnatural and unhealthy state. Studies show that inadequate SHBG can sometimes be the cause of secondary hypogonadism, due to excessive estrogen and thus negative feedback on the HPTA. (Low SHBG can double free testosterone, feeding back immediately.) There's really no need to overcomplicate the issue. We know SHBG is supposed to fluctuate. If it doesn't normalize (or fluctuate) as hormones change, your hormones balance will never normalize.

We are not talking about men whose SHBG is low because they overdose on testosterone. This is a normal way for the body to excrete the excess hormone. We are talking about men who have SHBG that does not change in relation to hormones even though it is the primary mediator of the free/bound fraction of hormones. This is a disease state.

Let's make it simple. Use deductive reasoning. Three facts are known to be true: 1) My TT is too low (clinically diagnosed hypogonadism.) 2) If I replace testosterone to a mid-range level, I create a new problem: FT and thus E2 become too high. 3.) FT fraction can only be lowered by SHBG. Therefore: SHBG is either not doing its job or is too low. Upon inspection, labs show SHBG is indeed too low for a mid-range testosterone level. Ergo, if SHBG increased to normal levels proportionate to T, I would not have FT in abnormally high proportion to T. I'm not even sure why this requires a protracted explanation. It's quite simple and logical and we observe it over and over and over.

 

[James23]

To dumb it down even further:

If an excessive free androgen ratio is your issue, there is only one way to change this fraction and it is to increase binding proteins.

If you observe that binding proteins are low (either albumin, SHBG or both) then you have discovered the culprit.

Sadly, no one synthesizes binding proteins for injection in humans. There's no money in it.

Assuming it is not just a genetic fuck up, we are left to uncover the reason why the binding proteins will not increase proportionately with other hormones that are being treated. Medical literature tells us that the mostly likely culprit might be excessive inflammation via direct suppression of HepG2 cell activity through excessive TNF-alpha expression as a result of excessive lipids within the liver. Reasonably, the indirectly implicated factors include fructose consumption and insulin resistance. Also, per a number of studies, E2 will NOT affect SHBG expression expression unless accompanied by adequate levels of T3.

 

[PharmD518]

James, you experience high estrogen symptoms when taking testosterone? I do not aromotize whatsoever. My E2 remains the same whether I am on 2 grams of test or none at all. I do not experience bloating or any high estradiol symptoms. Why would that be?

 

[James23]

James, you experience high estrogen symptoms when taking testosterone? I do not aromotize whatsoever. My E2 remains the same whether I am on 2 grams of test or none at all. I do not experience bloating or any high estradiol symptoms. Why would that be?

That depends. What are the rest of your labs like, including SHBG, FT, TT and E2? Are your consistent E2 levels always normal, or are they too high or too low?

 

[PharmD518]

That depends. What are the rest of your labs like, including SHBG, FT, TT and E2? Are your consistent E2 levels always normal, or are they too high or too low?

I can give you ball park numbers. I don't have my labs on hand. SHGB has always been either low or low normal, like yourself. E2 is high-normal and remains as such regardless of testosterone dose or levels. I really don't think it changes at all, maybe just a few points up or down but that is it. I do not get water retention, anxiety, nothing. Testosterone does absolutely nothing beneficial nor negative regardless of dose. And I have actually taken 5+ grams of Cypionate before for quite a long time(~4 months).

To be honest, I do not think low SHGB is my problem as I do not respond to other hormones I have taken. T3 I have gone up to 300MCG with you guessed it, no effect whatsoever. I really have no idea what is wrong with me and it's getting frustrating. I try not think about it and just go on with my life but every once in a while I check back here, and remind myself I am not normal. What human being does not respond to natural thyroid and testosterone hormones? I don't know.

 

[BBC3]

Well now. That's why I like a good discussion - cause you bring to mind an interesting and important point. Perhaps you have been vectoring this path or perhaps not, BUT...:

I wonder if the matter is not precisely that shbg is tied DIRECTLY to EITHER biological set DEMAND, OR even more importantly, TESTICULAR PRODUCTION RATES (as a primary facet/director of action...?! Because if the body KNOWS HOW MUCH hormone the cells at receptors are demanding or even SETS shbg SUPPLIES BASED on the producing organs/tissues - THEN ALL EXCESS EXOGENOUS HORMONES SUPPLIED CAN POSSIBLY DUE IS BOG DOWN CURRENT ENDOGENOUSLY DETERMINED SHBG PRESENT.!!! Which would explain lowering of SHBG in the presence of Syn-T...!

This would bring to light several considerable indications for those on TRT (who are not creating new tissue demands in conjunction)... Now most importantly I see a concern as to WHICH HORMONES have "Primary Rights" to SHBG, as ELIMINATION & clearance or testosterone and derivatives are now affected but unclear. Scenarios ranging from the application if Syn-T causing estrogen to not clear and stay in place BASTARDIZING to E3 leading to cancer(negative), to the application of testosterone (if owning preceding authority to SHBG access) potentially positively preventing excess E3 blood population related transference via "no room to spare/get it out quick".. On my first thought the negative consequence as speculated above presents more likely in my tiny little brain... Which upsets me. And as you know I have been a proponent that TRT is only useful when the subject is making active efforts to change DEMAND RATE FACTORS(exercise/work), else it's useless if not negative as "excess for EE(evil estrogen lol)". So CONGRATULATIONS!! You have managed to create paradigm shift for me, which is of course a NUT FOR MY SOUL.!! But it's alarming mostly.. Back to the windshield now before I meet that "casual bridge embankment"....

 

[PharmD518]

Anyone try metformin to raise SHGB? It certainly would I assume if you have insulin resistance?

 

[BBC3]

How do you draw those linez??? When "Insulin Resistance" is realistically an anecdotal "catch-phrase" as best in real world application... I seriously DOUBT that its even proven HOW metformin works in reality.

Still the bottom line is you are addressing "SERUM COUNTS" which DOES NOT depict Metabolism RATES of TRANSFER...

I'm not blasting you by any means. Just pointing out some thought process after reading your post, and requesting that you expound on your line of thinking regarding same...

Anyone try metformin to raise SHGB? It certainly would I assume if you have insulin resistance?

 

[hardrlz]

Do you guys think that if i already have low SHBG and use a herb such as tongkat ali that lowers SHBG i can further damage my hormones ? I am asking because i will try some herbs such as tongkat, tribulus and ginseng to increase my libido.

 

[flex001]

Do you guys think that if i already have low SHBG and use a herb such as tongkat ali that lowers SHBG i can further damage my hormones ? I am asking because i will try some herbs such as tongkat, tribulus and ginseng to increase my libido.

Haven't heard of these herbs causing damage but I suppose anything is possible. If your SHBG is already low though, why are you attempting to lower it even more?

I suppose you could cycle Tribulus along with DAA. DAA is said to work well as a natural Test booster. I've taken both with good results. Felt an increase in Libido and a slight increase in Well Being (possible Placebo effect but whatever).

 

[hardrlz]

I am not trying to lower it further, i am just desperate and searching for something that will work in libido/ energy aspect, so now i am going to try the natural way , so i purchased some herbal products to see whether they will have any effect at all

 

[James23]

Try PT-141.

 

[johnnyBALLZ]

Try PT-141.

Where do you get yours James?

 

[BBC3]

Arsenic, Anthrax, and Cyanide are "HERBS". They can all be found naturally too growing right in your back yard possibly, or at least ON SOMETHING out there....

DO YOU think that "health Supp Companies" go to the trouble to CHECK THEIR INGREDIENTS for CONTAMINANTS....? The quality of the SOURCE is only as good as the SOURCE.

One can MANUFACTURE or POINT A FINGER AT ANYTHING. To create something from something else, or to HARVEST something is to KNOW what that is. THIS IS CREATION...

DISSECTION is to determine WHAT is ALSO INCORPORATED. Tossing a seed on the ground is easy. Checking to see what grew is another thing all together. We are basically talking about REVERSE ENGENEERING for the sake of determining a GREEN BEAN IS A GREEN BEAN...

Bluntly put, and in a Hardy Boys Mystery Novel - NO ONE CAN TELL YOU WHAT KILLED YOU UNLESS THEY TURN EVERY STONE.... That's called EXPENSE. The only way to know is something is present IS TO LOOK FOR IT SPECIFICALLY.... SO how many bad things are out there to search for again?? (consider a gram of protein is WORTHLESS if it has ANTHRAX ATTACHED TO IT...!) How much expense do YOU incur in your HEALTH PURCHASES? How much REAL EXPENSE do you think they are actually transferring. How much is MARKETING not unlike the DISTRURBING EXPENSES INCURRED by SAMUEL ADAMS AND THE LIKES OF EAS.... What's more important to the average FUKTOID..??? Getting their attention, OR EARNING IT...!??!

One SPEC of plutonium will erode/degrade a Cubic Centimeter of lung tissue on a dime ( so I hear). Satellites burn up on re-entry EVERY FUCKIN DAY... That's a pretty good dispersion vector....! Where does your garden grow...?!:drooling:

Do you guys think that if i already have low SHBG and use a herb such as tongkat ali that lowers SHBG i can further damage my hormones ? I am asking because i will try some herbs such as tongkat, tribulus and ginseng to increase my libido.

 

[BBC3]

And Just to point out to IGNORNT CUNTZ that I'M NOT JUST HYPING PARANOIA...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthrax
'Anthrax is an acute disease caused by the bacterium Bacillus anthracis. Most forms of the disease are lethal, and it affects both humans and animals. There are effective vaccines against anthrax, and some forms of the disease respond well to antibiotic treatment.

Like many other members of the genus Bacillus, Bacillus anthracis can form dormant endospores (often referred to as "spores" for short, but not to be confused with fungal spores) that are able to survive in harsh conditions for decades or even centuries.[1] Such spores can be found on all continents, even Antarctica.[2] When spores are inhaled, ingested, or come into contact with a skin lesion on a host, they may become reactivated and multiply rapidly.

Anthrax commonly infects wild and domesticated herbivorous mammals that ingest or inhale the spores while grazing. Ingestion is thought to be the most common route by which herbivores contract anthrax. Carnivores living in the same environment may become infected by consuming infected animals. Diseased animals can spread anthrax to humans, either by direct contact (e.g., inoculation of infected blood to broken skin) or by consumption of a diseased animal's flesh.

Anthrax spores can be produced in vitro and used as a biological weapon. Anthrax does not spread directly from one infected animal or person to another; it is spread by spores. These spores can be transported by clothing or shoes. The body of an animal that had active anthrax at the time of death can also be a source of anthrax spores.'

 

[hardrlz]

James have you tried other peptides, for eg CJC or GHRP 6, and did you see any difference ?