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MESO-Rx Exclusive The Most Effective Growth Hormone Protocol for Hypertrophy

@ChestRockwell after reading your new article, the you say "exogenous insulin can also be used to bypass many of the refractory period limitations"

Would you suggest a long acting insulin like lantus if one plans on multiple, more frequent than every 6-8 hours, injections of GH....? Would this lower the refractory period significantly enough to justify every ~4 hour injections?

Oh, and "Most will find the GH ceiling to occur somewhere between 4-8 IUs/day sans insulin"... Do you feel the addition of lantus would increase the overall ability to get "more" out of "more" gh? Meaning, if 4-8iu/day is the "cap" w/o insulin, how would you describe a "balls out" insulin and GH stack (Something like Xiu ofGH would be effective with Y amount of insulin)?

God dammit, one more question to add... You mention SERMS and AIs have a negative effect. What about the addition of a DHT derivative such as proviron or masteron in place to prevent some aromatization?

:)
 
Wunderpus said:
Would you suggest a long acting insulin like lantus if one plans on multiple, more frequent than every 6-8 hours, injections of GH....? Would this lower the refractory period significantly enough to justify every ~4 hour injections?
Click to expand...

I think the refractory periods become more consequential to someone who is not eating between their GH doses. Most are going to be eating pretty regularly and it doesn't take a lot of insulin to resensitize pathways.

With that said, the idea of Lantus is certainly intriguing as it takes much of the guesswork out of the GH/insulin timing protocols. It also tends to help simplify CHO consumption and the risks of hypoglycemia go down. Of course, the flip side of the coin is that having elevated basal insulin levels for 24-36 hours could cause undesired effects. So, there are certainly pros and cons to weigh.

Wunderpus said:
Oh, and "Most will find the GH ceiling to occur somewhere between 4-8 IUs/day sans insulin"... Do you feel the addition of lantus would increase the overall ability to get "more" out of "more" gh? Meaning, if 4-8iu/day is the "cap" w/o insulin, how would you describe a "balls out" insulin and GH stack (Something like Xiu ofGH would be effective with Y amount of insulin)?
Click to expand...

Correct, the addition of exogenous insulin makes my statement obsolete as the ceiling will raise significantly.

Wunderpus said:
You mention SERMS and AIs have a negative effect. What about the addition of a DHT derivative such as proviron or masteron in place to prevent some aromatization?
Click to expand...

Yes, I always recommend controlling estrogen balance using stack design, whenever possible. Just a slight clarification, DHT derivatives to not prevent aromatization, they simply increase the androgens in the body without increasing estrogen, correcting A:E ratios for those that are estrogen sensitive.
 
ChestRockwell said:
I think the refractory periods become more consequential to someone who is not eating between their GH doses. Most are going to be eating pretty regularly and it doesn't take a lot of insulin to resensitize pathways.

With that said, the idea of Lantus is certainly intriguing as it takes much of the guesswork out of the GH/insulin timing protocols. It also tends to help simplify CHO consumption and the risks of hypoglycemia go down. Of course, the flip side of the coin is that having elevated basal insulin levels for 24-36 hours could cause undesired effects. So, there are certainly pros and cons to weigh.



Correct, the addition of exogenous insulin makes my statement obsolete as the ceiling will raise significantly.



Yes, I always recommend controlling estrogen balance using stack design, whenever possible. Just a slight clarification, DHT derivatives to not prevent aromatization, they simply increase the androgens in the body without increasing estrogen, correcting A:E ratios for those that are estrogen sensitive.
Click to expand...
Makes sense, Lantus is still such an unknown to most of us...
 
ChestRockwell said:
I have ample amounts of Lantus that I will be experimenting with during the off-season. I always like to do some self-experimentation on things like this so I'm able to offer my own anecdotes.
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I like, in theory, a fusion of Milos and Palumbos theories. Lantus as a base (~20iu/day) and Humalog pre workout as a pulse.
 
Wunderpus said:
I like, in theory, a fusion of Milos and Palumbos theories. Lantus as a base (~20iu/day) and Humalog pre workout as a pulse.
Click to expand...

I'm hopeful that the article shed some light on why the acute timing of insulin may not be nearly as important as it relates to direct hypertrophy effects.

And for this reason, I would probably consider post-workout to be more ideal so that there is no risk for battling hypoglycemia during a workout. In other words, I would use the LOG-type insulin purely for nutrient shuttling alongside a post-workout meal.
 
Excellent article @ChestRockwell. Very informative and well written. I'm looking forward to the next one on GH and insulin. Even though some of us have a pretty good idea of how to use them together effectively I enjoy reading the actual science behind why it works.
 
kevinhy said:
Thanks for posting this, looking forward to seeing a female specific iteration if that ever comes. You should get Lyle to let you write some female specific PED stuff in the new womens book
Click to expand...

It is funny you mention this as I talk to Lyle often but never thought to offer this up. He's done with the book now so it won't be making it into this version anyhow.

I think that female information is severely lacking, though. So, I'll start brainstorming the best way to approach this and include the missus as well.
 
master.on said:
Great article @ChestRockwell

Do GHRPs/peptides have some use for hypertrophy, provided you follow the article (test, deca, slin, meals) guidelines?
Click to expand...

I think there can be a place for them, yes. However, I do not recommend them (nor use them myself).

My primary concerns are going to be long-term safety of using a product that hyper-charges the pituitary as well as finding a legit source of quality product. There are just countless tales I've come across where the user experience suggests they are not receiving what they are paying for.
 
Very interesting point you made about the importance of using pharmaceutical GH with its rigorous standards instead of generics, despite generics scoring well on serum GH and igf1 testing due to the impurities and by-products. Do you feel that Chinese pharmaceutical GH like say, Ansomone is on par with or not too far behind humatrope, genotropin, Etc? Those humas and genos are not cheap and there's tons of fakes out there.. excellent article by the way..
 
@ChestRockwell Is there a bottom line in terms of fat loss when comes to long term exogenous HGH administration? As I have mentioned before, I do take it for 19 months already (while try not to exceed IGF-1 reference range) and combined with very clean nutrition diet and non-bodybuilding exercise routine my BF is currently 9.1% (calipers). At this point I am not sure what is the main contributing factor - HGH or diet or combination of both. Comprehensive blood work is excellent at this point.

I guess intentionally or not I have become a "test subject" in a non scientific study for both "long term use" and "non-Pharma use"... Will keep y'all posted for sure...
 
DragoT said:
@ChestRockwell Is there a bottom line in terms of fat loss when comes to long term exogenous HGH administration? As I have mentioned before, I do take it for 19 months already (while try not to exceed IGF-1 reference range) and combined with very clean nutrition diet and non-bodybuilding exercise routine my BF is currently 9.1% (calipers). At this point I am not sure what is the main contributing factor - HGH or diet or combination of both. Comprehensive blood work is excellent at this point.

I guess intentionally or not I have become a "test subject" in a non scientific study for both "long term use" and "non-Pharma use"... Will keep y'all posted for sure...
Click to expand...
Good job bro. No way someone in your age can be that lean if it wasn't for GH and clean diet.
How much calories are you consuming daily ? I'm planning on putting my mom who is 49 on GH.
 
Both my wife and I consume slightly below or equal to maintenance. At this age I personally think will be overkill to have bodybuilding aspirations (although, frankly, with the treasure trove of information here it does not sound far fetched...). What we both find absolutely precious is the reversal (or stale) of some typical aging symptoms - her per-menopusal hot flashes and regular period are in the past, as well as my ED is gone at 5-6 months mark (but I am on TRT as well).

You have seen my other post about nutrition diet. Nothing have changed since I posted... well something did - the difference - from the apeshit keto we went for 6-10 months to carb cycling (wife more than me since she now trains for... well... perhaps I will tell you later next year :) but if you look her BF chart, you can guess:

upload_2017-12-28_16-36-27.png

I am stuck at home at present to so much work that literally cannot go to the gym, just walking the dog and hop on treadmill between meetings. Sometimes I have time for some bench weight lifting too (we converted one of the rooms in the house to a "gym"). So, for me just clean home cooked meals where I know what's in it.

I still maintain the biggest enemy of 50+ people are the estrogens and sugars in our food which leads to body fat deposit, which in turn makes life shitty as hell. That's about sums is all.

The main reason of total joy for both of us is the absolutely excellent blood work results. Only one "thing" left to fix -wife's PCOS.

As you see, the lean (or muscle) mass, especially in my case, do not play significant role in terms of metabolism. This is what I was asking Chester at what point HGH will "stop" playing role in BF loss. After all, if HGH the role in lipolysis was indefinite, one might expect to... die at some point since there is a min % of body fat necessary for a human organism to function.
 
Roco Bama said:
Good job bro. No way someone in your age can be that lean if it wasn't for GH and clean diet.
How much calories are you consuming daily ? I'm planning on putting my mom who is 49 on GH.
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Lol this just sounds so sinister, planning on putting my mom on it. Let her make an informed decision at least bro, I know your running massive gh doses and aren't concerned about the risks, but there are significant ones
 
Let's hope Roco will approach this exercise with the caution and respect moms deserve! Comprehensive blood work before and followup every quarter is a must. Any "red flag" should be followed by MD's exam. If you have $$$ to invest in HGH, don't try to save on safety.
 
bob hughes said:
Lol this just sounds so sinister, planning on putting my mom on it. Let her make an informed decision at least bro, I know your running massive gh doses and aren't concerned about the risks, but there are significant ones
Click to expand...
It's for anti-aging purpose. Her GH dose won't be more than 2iu and I already talked to her about it.
 
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